Was America founded on or meant to be Christian?

[mafwons]

Then you should have no problem giving a couple of examples of the specifically Christian principles this country was founded upon. Why do you balk at this seemingly simple request?

But George Washington was honest (except for ammasing a larger fortune than he already had on the backs of poor farmers) that proves we were founded a christian nation necause thats a biblical principal.

 

[Albion]

I have an excellent grasp on american history.

Not if you are unfamiliar with the landing at Cape Henry, the Mayflower Compact, and all the rest that relates to the spiritual principles of the first settlers of America. At the very least, one would have to say that you've forgotten what you once knew.

 

[Queller]

But George Washington was honest (except for ammasing a larger fortune than he already had on the backs of poor farmers) that proves we were founded a christian nation necause thats a biblical principal.

You're joking right? You think just because (mostly) Washington was honest that means the country was founded on Christian principles?

Not to mention honesty is a principle of many religions and even of no religion. I asked for a specifically Christian principle, not a universal principle.

 

[Albion]

You're joking right? You think just because (mostly) Washington was honest that means the country was founded on Christian principles?

Not to mention honesty is a principle of many religions and even of no religion. I asked for a specifically Christian principle, not a universal principle.

What makes you think honesty is a "universal" principle?

 

[sojourner4Christ]

Again, we're dealing with 24/7 worldly conditioning, mind control. The power of the lie is strong. People react violently when their traditions are exposed or ignored. And USA Inc.'s constitution is a tradition of men.

Anyone can wax eloquent at any time with their opinions, anecdotes, and other conditioned thoughts about their beliefs re: America's founding.

However, the devil is in the details. Whatever "Christian" principles someone wants to believe were involved, this thread has documented that the craftily constructed humanistic pride-stroking contract aka "the constitution" stands as a monument of rebellion against Godly authority.

 

[TLK Valentine]

What makes you think honesty is a "universal" principle?

Well, it's certainly not universal in the Bible...

 

[smaneck]

I have maintained throughout this misguided discussion that if a person knows history, he knows that America was founded by people intent upon having the place be a Christian land. That's true whether we are thinking of the Jamestown colony or the New England colonies. Those people were steeped in Christian principles, their written documents gave testimony to it, and their laws reflected it. There is really no question about that being the case.

In that case it may be an issue of what we are calling our Founding Fathers. If you are referring to the earliest colonialists as mentioned above, that might well be true. But if by Founding Fathers we mean those who led the fight to obtain our independence from England, they were mostly Enlightenment Deists.

 

[mafwons]

You're joking right? You think just because (mostly) Washington was honest that means the country was founded on Christian principles?

Not to mention honesty is a principle of many religions and even of no religion. I asked for a specifically Christian principle, not a universal principle.

I just cannot pull off sarcasm on the internet. But yes I am joking as well as pointing out that washington was just as dishonest and currupt as our leaders today.

 

[Anto9us]

"I have maintained throughout this misguided discussion that if a person knows history, he knows that America was founded by people intent upon having the place be a Christian land. That's true whether we are thinking of the Jamestown colony or the New England colonies."

What Albion says is true to an extent.

The original colonies were of three basic models --

1. that of a "joint-stock" company -- a colony established by PRIVATE ENTERPRISE

2. a COMPACT - a religious people seeking a "Calvinistic Zion in the Wilderness" (Yes - I - a vitriolic Arminian - acknowledge that Calvinists/Puritans/Separatists -- i.e. "the Pilgrims" -- were a major force in colonial America

3. Proprietary colonies - more or less an extension of the British Crown

all of these more or less blended and influenced each other - so that - by the time of the fight for Independence -- Deists and Puritans had the same dog in the fight

 

[Albion]

"I have maintained throughout this misguided discussion that if a person knows history, he knows that America was founded by people intent upon having the place be a Christian land. That's true whether we are thinking of the Jamestown colony or the New England colonies."

What Albion says is true to an extent.

The original colonies were of three basic models --

1. that of a "joint-stock" company -- a colony established by PRIVATE ENTERPRISE

2. a COMPACT - a religious people seeking a "Calvinistic Zion in the Wilderness" (Yes - I - a vitriolic Arminian - acknowledge that Calvinists/Puritans/Separatists -- i.e. "the Pilgrims" -- were a major force in colonial America

3. Proprietary colonies - more or less an extension of the British Crown

all of these more or less blended and influenced each other - so that - by the time of the fight for Independence -- Deists and Puritans had the same dog in the fight

Yes, but the FOUNDERS were Christians. When you get into talking about Deists, you have moved to subsequent historical developments. And the economic and administrative structures of the colonies is basically a separate and different matter.

 

[Anto9us]

"Yes, but the FOUNDERS were Christians. When you get into talking about Deists, you have moved to subsequent historical developments."

I concur, Albion.

I also disagree with someone else who said:

"the craftily constructed humanistic pride-stroking contract aka "the constitution" stands as a monument of rebellion against Godly authority."

NO. Whereas some of the "subsequent Deist developments" came into play by the time of the Constitution -- it was still built basically on earlier documents such as the Fundamental Orders of Connecticutt; some English Common Law, and even influenced by some American Indian agreements from tribes in northwest USA and Canada

Constitution is not a rebellion against "Godly authority" - though "God" to its forerunning document-writers may have been a Deist God or a Great Spirit as well as the Christian God

a Creator-God and a "firm reliance upon Divine Providence" is articulated in early documents however Deist one wishes to proclaim them.

 

[Albion]

Thanks for the clarification.

 

[sojourner4Christ]

From the OP:

Was America founded on or meant to be Christian? ...Do you agree that Christianity was the moral grounding for our nation or was it something else? Is thete any evidence to support your idea?

The flagship instrument that evinces the answer to your question is USA's "We the people..." contract aka "the constitution."

And that instrument is void of any mention of God.

"God" to its forerunning document-writers may have been a Deist God or a Great Spirit as well as the Christian God

God calls that idolatry.

The persona/status of its signatories, or the personal beliefs of its crafters, is without standing in law. Bottom line: The contract is, what it is -- a contract void of any mention of God.

'Save us!', they cried to Caesar. "The constitution" offers a worldly protection racket based in vain deceit; civil idolatry. Do you feel more protected now with its gov't jack-booted thugs banging down your castle door?

All of the laws of the natural man are for their own, for their "things." This is how the 'police power' attaches to those who do not sojourn in Christ. Those dead to Christ are made after the image that created them. For example, under man's law, 'the State' is a corporation, and a corporation has no soul. Therefore, it's a dead thing, and they are dead to Christ, and they are made in the image of Caesar, because they live by all the corporate laws that Caesar creates. Corporations, or the corporate governments, always mark their property, or 'things', with 'legal descriptions' -- e.g. the ALL CAPS legal fictions for its citizens, as previously documented here.

Buyer beware.

 

[Albion]

It is irrelevant who signed it, or of what the personal beliefs of its crafters were. .

I beg your pardon. THAT is exactly what the question of the thread inquired about.

 

[smaneck]

all of these more or less blended and influenced each other - so that - by the time of the fight for Independence -- Deists and Puritans had the same dog in the fight

William Estep argues it was Deists and Baptists who had the same dog in the fight. Baptists were a relatively small denomination at the time and needed to protect their rights. When the debate over education came up Patrick Henry (who was definitely Christian) wanted the government to provide monies to churches to establish schools, sort of like a voucher system. The Baptists objected and insisted on an entirely secular public school system and managed to persuade James Madison to see things their way.

My, how things change.

 

[Albion]

William Estep argues it was Deists and Baptists who had the same dog in the fight. Baptists were a relatively small denomination at the time and needed to protect their rights. When the debate over education came up Patrick Henry (who was definitely Christian) wanted the government to provide monies to churches to establish schools, sort of like a voucher system. The Baptists objected and insisted on an entirely secular public school system and managed to persuade James Madison to see things their way.

My, how things change.

But, once again, by the time of Patrick Henry, we're way, way beyond the "founding" of America.

 

[mafwons]

Yes, but the FOUNDERS were Christians. When you get into talking about Deists, you have moved to subsequent historical developments. And the economic and administrative structures of the colonies is basically a separate and different matter.

This nation was founded in 1776, that is where United States history starts. If we go on your notion the indians that the europeans commited genocide against where here first and had their own civilizations, so we are founded on the various religions of their culture, it doesn't follow through. When we refer to founders we are talking george, ben, those fellows anything else and people don't know where you are going with it.

 

[smaneck]

But, once again, by the time of Patrick Henry, we're way, way beyond the "founding" of America.

We are not way, way beyond the 'founding' of the United States which is generally what we mean when we use the term "America" in this country.
I assume we are not talking about Canada or Mexico.

The Pilgrims didn't found the United States.

 

[Red Fox]

This nation was founded in 1776, that is where United States history starts. If we go on your notion the indians that the europeans committed genocide against where here first and had their own civilizations, so we are founded on the various religions of their culture, it doesn't follow through. When we refer to founders we are talking george, ben, those fellows anything else and people don't know where you are going with it.

It's truly sad that most non-native Americans refuse to acknowledge the genocide of the American NDNs that took place on this land before and after this nation was supposedly founded. Christian principles, please. The United States of America was originally founded on genocide and slavery, of biblical proportions.

 

[mafwons]

It's truly sad that most non-native Americans refuse to acknowledge the genocide of the American NDNs that took place on this land before and after this nation was supposedly founded. The United States of America was originally founded on genocide and slavery, of biblical proportions.

I was tought different in school and even in college to a large degree, but in actaulity the evidence does not support the myths in most textbooks.