Was America founded on or meant to be Christian?

[DaisyDay]

I believe some of them actually had rules that if you did not attend church on Sunday you weren't allowed to vote.

And you could be persecuted even to death if you were the wrong sort of Christian.

 

[Aryeh Jay]

And you could be persecuted even to death if you were the wrong sort of Christian.

Or a witch…

 

[Queller]

Two nationally observed holidays are exclusively Christian - Christmas and Good Friday (since Easter is on Sunday Good Friday is observed as a day for businesses to close and people to have off).

Just a note; Good Friday is not a nationally observed holiday. It is only a state holiday and then only in 12 states.

 

[TheChristianSurvivalGuide]

I don't think it is understood why some governments observe specific religious holidays. It is not a celebration of that day or expression of an endorsement of any particular religion on part of the government.

From USA.gov: Federal law establishes the following public holidays for federal employees.

From wiki: Title 5 of the United States Code outlines the role of government organization and employees in the United States Code. It also is the Title that specifies Federal holidays (5 U.S.C. § 6103).

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Which Christian principles are those?

The principle that every man has free will to choose his own religion and commune with his own God and that the government has no right to interfere or force a religion on anyone.

...just one example.

Granted, that's not a Christian-specific moral, however, their decision making process was obviously influenced by their personal beliefs.

Here's a link that better explains what I mentioned earlier
Was America Founded As A Christian Nation? - Forbes

Dr. Frazier suggests designations of Deist or Christian are too simple. He describes the primary beliefs of core Founders as “theistic rationalism.” Frazier notes, “They took elements of Christianity and elements of natural religion and then, using rationalism, they kept what they thought was reasonable, was rational, and rejected what they considered to be irrational.”

The link mentions what I mentioned earlier, that many folks polarize this to the two extremes "100% Christian" or "100% secular", and like with many cases, any time you have two extremes, the facts like somewhere in the middle.

Obviously the nation was not designed to be a "Christian Nation" from a legislative standpoint. However, the beliefs of the founders did have influence on how they framed the nation. While they didn't want government to endorse/force religion or deny people the freedom to embrace it, they did want the laws and framework to represent the people of the country (who at the time were mostly Christian).

 

[morningstar2651]

It is asserted by some that the Founders used Christian ideals and at times specifically referenced Biblical writing in the formulation of our key documents. Most often discussed is Christian morals being a foundation of "Unalienable rights" and the Creator being referenced being an Abrahamic deity, specifically the Christian "God", or Jahweh, Elohim, Jehova.

I have offered an argument to this premise in other threads that were not directly related to this issue but tjought it best to start this thread in the American Politics area.

Do you agree that Christianity was the moral grounding for our nation or was it something else? Is thete any evidence to support your idea?

America was founded as a secular democratic nation, not a Christian theocratic nation.

Compare the first amendment and the first commandment:

• 1st commandment: You shall have no other gods but me.
• 1st amendment: You're free to believe in any gods.

 

[morningstar2651]

The principle that every man has free will to choose his own religion and commune with his own God and that the government has no right to interfere or force a religion on anyone.

...just one example.

Granted, that's not a Christian-specific moral, however, their decision making process was obviously influenced by their personal beliefs.

Here's a link that better explains what I mentioned earlier
Was America Founded As A Christian Nation? - Forbes

Dr. Frazier suggests designations of Deist or Christian are too simple. He describes the primary beliefs of core Founders as “theistic rationalism.” Frazier notes, “They took elements of Christianity and elements of natural religion and then, using rationalism, they kept what they thought was reasonable, was rational, and rejected what they considered to be irrational.”

The link mentions what I mentioned earlier, that many folks polarize this to the two extremes "100% Christian" or "100% secular", and like with many cases, any time you have two extremes, the facts like somewhere in the middle.

Obviously the nation was not designed to be a "Christian Nation" from a legislative standpoint. However, the beliefs of the founders did have influence on how they framed the nation. While they didn't want government to endorse/force religion or deny people the freedom to embrace it, they did want the laws and framework to represent the people of the country (who at the time were mostly Christian).

Doesn't that contradict everything the Bible says about non-Christian religions?

You shall have no other gods, kill your friends if they try to get you to worship other gods, etc.

 

[Audacious]

Doesn't that contradict everything the Bible says about non-Christian religions?

You shall have no other gods, kill your friends if they try to get you to worship other gods, etc.

You're confusing God's instructions explicitly to the Jews with God's instructions to everyone. They're... somewhat different.

I'm not saying that the OT is irrelevant, because it isn't; merely that you can't apply every aspect of it to gentiles.

 

[morningstar2651]

You're confusing God's instructions explicitly to the Jews with God's instructions to everyone. They're... somewhat different.

I'm not saying that the OT is irrelevant, because it isn't; merely that you can't apply every aspect of it to gentiles.

How do Christians know which commandments God wants them to follow, and which commandments God does not want them to follow? Certainly you can see why it would be confusing.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Doesn't that contradict everything the Bible says about non-Christian religions?

You shall have no other gods, kill your friends if they try to get you to worship other gods, etc.

I think that would sort of stem off into a OT vs. NT debate.

However, I think the underlying theme of the story in the bible is that faith isn't something that can be forced on you under duress, it's based on personal choices.

There are even verses that advocate separation of government and faith. So one could make the argument that the concept of separation of church and state is an idea that the founders derived from their own faith.

 

[hankroberts]

It is asserted by some that the Founders used Christian ideals and at times specifically referenced Biblical writing in the formulation of our key documents. Most often discussed is Christian morals being a foundation of "Unalienable rights" and the Creator being referenced being an Abrahamic deity, specifically the Christian "God", or Jahweh, Elohim, Jehova.

I have offered an argument to this premise in other threads that were not directly related to this issue but tjought it best to start this thread in the American Politics area.

Do you agree that Christianity was the moral grounding for our nation or was it something else? Is thete any evidence to support your idea?

More generally, the question often raised is whether this is somehow "a Christian nation". I find the question to be inappropriate, or at least misleading. If by the question one means that the nation was intended by the Founders to establish Christianity as a national religion, then the obvious answer is "no". The prohibition against an established national religion is clear in the founding documents and in the debates of the day.

The statement I usually make is that the Founding Fathers were, by and large, Christian men and men who held to a biblical worldview; and that this perspective shaped the founding documents and the foundations of the nation. They were quite specific in their intent that the federal government not establish any particular religion, but that this government would indeed be positively supportive of religion (and for them, that meant Christianity). However, there was no limitation to Christianity in their clear emphasis that each man has the right to his own religious expression, including worship of no god at all.

The notion that the nation was intended to be a 'secular' nation is just as unclear as the notion it was intended to be a Christian nation: it depends on what one means by "secular". If by that one means that the nation be absolutely exclusive of any support of religious view or religion, then the notion is sheer nonsense, easily refuted by the historical record. If one means that the government not mandate any particular religion, not collect funds in support of any religion, or enforce any particular religious view on any citizen, then that is true.

The key element of the debate regarding the newly established federal government and religion was to prevent and prohibit that federal government from engaging in any enforcement of a particular religious view on its citizens. But most of the founders (and Jefferson expressly) supported the view that the individual colonies (states) did indeed have the right to impose a state religion. He opposed the idea personally, but believed the states as whole communities had the right do this by majority vote. And numerous colonies had just that: established religious mandates that citizens must follow or leave the community.

But the term "Founding Fathers" is a proper noun, referring to a specific set of men; those fifty-five men who intellectually contributed to the Constitutional Convention. Now an additional ninety men were members of the first Congress, and allowing for an overlap of some nineteen men who participated in both, this gives us a total of 126 participants in the framing of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. And we know from the historical record what the religious affiliation of virtually every one of those men was. And almost to a man, they were Christian.

So, if the question is “Are the theological doctrines of the Bible explicitly woven into the fabric of government?” The answer is no. That is specifically prohibited by the Constitution. However, if the question is whether the Founding Fathers were informed of a biblical worldview (the existence of a personal God who active in history, the authority of the Scripture, the inherent sinfulness of man, the existence of absolute objective morality, and God-given transcendent rights) was that the philosophic foundation of the Constitution? The answer is, absolutely, yes. The American community as a whole presumed a common set of values which were principally biblical. Further, the founding principles of the Republic were clearly informed by biblical truth.

However, it must be restated that none of this obligates any citizen to accept Christianity, which is by its very nature voluntary.

 

[HerbieHeadley]

To quote the Treaty of Tripoli: "the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion..."

.

That's because Christ is not a religion; It's a reality. As well as keeping the mohammeds from attacking our shipping lanes.

 

[Queller]

The principle that every man has free will to choose his own religion and commune with his own God and that the government has no right to interfere or force a religion on anyone.

...just one example.

I don't understand how that is a Christian principle. It flies in the face of one of the Ten Commandments.

Granted, that's not a Christian-specific moral, however, their decision making process was obviously influenced by their personal beliefs.

If it isn't Christian-specific, then how is it a Christian principle?

 

[Queller]

You're confusing God's instructions explicitly to the Jews with God's instructions to everyone. They're... somewhat different.

I'm not saying that the OT is irrelevant, because it isn't; merely that you can't apply every aspect of it to gentiles.

The Ten Commandments don't necessarily apply to gentiles?

 

[JustOneWay]

That's because Christ is not a religion; It's a reality.

Strange that everybody else thinks it is a religion.

 

[Red Fox]

.

 

[hankroberts]

To quote the Treaty of Tripoli: "the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion..."

And the First Amendment: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..."

We are a secular nation, and religion has no place within the function of our government. Religious people, yes, but not any religion as an establishment.

"the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion...

You might want to put that in its appropriate historical context.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof"...

That too.

 

[AirPo]

The early colonies were clearly and explicitly Christian.

The US is not a colony.

 

[TheChristianSurvivalGuide]

Let's look at this from a Native American perspective, shall we? I can speak from a Native American perspective, since I am one. I'm guessing, from what I know about American history, all was well and good in early Christian America if your skin was fair and you weren't a minority, a Native American, or a woman.

I am also Native. What are we needing to look at from a Native point of view?

I asked about Christian principles grounding the basis of US law. Why would a Native's perspective be relevant?

Rhetorical question, of course.

 

[TheChristianSurvivalGuide]

You might want to put that in its appropriate historical context.


That too.

Hank, the context of this post is why we were having problems in other threads.

You cannot merely say, "You are mistaken" and not substantiate your statement. You must at least articulate some basic reasoning on why the original claim which you are criticizing is not accurate with some pertinent data.

Please explain your criticisms and if historical writings are referenced please cite them and provide a link or relevant quote.

Merely saying, "You are wrong and if you'd care to research why, you would then understand" is not sufficient.