Was Adam indwelled by the Holy Spirit before the fall?

[sandman]

The Bible doesn't explicitly state indwelling like as us. But, God is spirit and can only communicate with what He is... unless He comes in some form of concretion.... such as a talking serpent, burning bush, or a talking ass .....or had the spirit of God upon them conditionally, such as those in the OT.

Is it possible that it was an indwelling.... yes, but it was conditional... "for in the day" ... "Thou shalt surely die".....And we know that physically they lived for another 900 years.

 

[Handmaid for Jesus]

Hi everyone. I posted this on another thread.

I hear ya! But, the breath IS the life of every living thing on earth. I am a retired obstetrics nurse, and I came to understand some things about life. Have you ever heard the word plexus? There is an area of the human body called the solar plexus. It is the area not quite in the chest, but not quite in the abdomen either. It is plexus, neither here nor there but it is vital. Working with pregnant women, started me to think on these things. A baby in the womb is considered to be alive as long as the heart beats. But, how can this be? If the baby is born but it does not breathe, it is stillborn. But the heart was beating prior to birth. Well, in the womb it was plexus, neither alive nor dead, but in a vital state to be fully realized at birth when the breath(spirit) enters the body.
Genesis 2:7
And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

I think we miss this because we lack understanding. In the fall, we do not understand how our Father preserved us.We are to be made sons of God. Do you realize this? It is hard for me to wrap my mind around this truth also. Man(Adam) was the son of God. Well, what happened? Man was perfect, the very image of God. But when man(Adam) chose sin, he lost that image of God and became tainted with sin (This is how I understand what happened), he lost his holiness, he lost his immortality(death entered), the curse of death entered all of creation,it was just a big mess made. But God, knowing all things had a plan, which the devil did not know. Well now, the devil thought he had destroyed the son of God by placing the sin nature in him, now all mankind would be tainted by sin (it is an inherited trait).
Luke 3:38 Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.
Genesis 1:27 So God created man in His own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
Genesis 5:3 And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, and
after his image; and called his name Seth:

So you see how it went down. We all understand this I think. But then there was plexus. .

I hope you have understood what plexus means. It is neither here nor there. Even the devil did not understand what God had done. But God told him that the seed of the woman was going to crush his head. Wait God... You said that man would die on the DAY he ate from the tree/ What is this seed?

Well, the plan of redemption was on God's mind from the foundation of the world. Adam's sin did not catch God by surprise. So God made provision.(1) place man in a plexus state until the seed is come. (2)Conquer death through the seed. (3) conquer the devil by the seed.(4) restore the image of God through faith in the seed.

Isn't that good! Hallelujah!

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
Romans 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
1 Corinthians 15:27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.

So unbelievers are in a plexus state. Dead (essentially) in trespasses and sin. But they breathe(have spirit). So you can say they are neither alive, nor are they dead. They are not alive until the Spirit of God indwells them.

John 14: 17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

Some members strongly hold this view - your comments appreciated.

Spiritual death is the absence of the Holy Spirit. Adam and Eve died a spiritual death before they died a physical one. Jesus Christ of Nazareth came to resolve this problem by dying for our sins. He did this to reconcile us to Himself. He offered us His Spirit of life once again. This is the free gift of salvation. We can now receive this life, once lost in Adam, and now resurrected through Him. This is the restoration of the Holy Spirit. Salvation.

Blessings

 

[Carl Emerson]

So the New Covenant promise of the indwelling Holy Spirit to seal against disobedience didn't work for Adam and Eve ???

Jeremiah 32
40 I will make an everlasting covenant with them that I will not turn away from them, to do them good; and I will put the fear of Me in their hearts, so that they will not turn away from Me.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

So the New Covenant promise of the indwelling Holy Spirit to seal against disobedience didn't work for Adam and Eve ???

Jeremiah 32
40 I will make an everlasting covenant with them that I will not turn away from them, to do them good; and I will put the fear of Me in their hearts, so that they will not turn away from Me.

There was no need for any covenant before the fall. There was just one law/request. God, Adam and Eve walked together in Eden with no barriers just one request from God. We know the rest of the story, the Old Covenant was established through Noah. Then the final end to sin through the New Covenant through Jesus Christ of Nazareth.

 

[Carl Emerson]

There was no need for any covenant before the fall. There was just one law/request. God, Adam and Eve walked together in Eden with no barriers just one request from God. We know the rest of the story, the Old Covenant was established through Noah. Then the final end to sin through the New Covenant through Jesus Christ of Nazareth.

Yes of course - but you miss my point.

If the Holy Spirit was indwelling Adam like was promised in the New Covenant to come by Jeremiah and Ezekiel, the Spirit of the Fear of the Lord would have prevented them from blatant disobedience.

The fact that they blatantly disobeyed to the extent of spiritual death indicates they were not indwelled by the Holy Spirit.

 

[Handmaid for Jesus]

So the New Covenant promise of the indwelling Holy Spirit to seal against disobedience didn't work for Adam and Eve ???

Let us just look at the beginning with scripture.
Genesis 1:27
So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

So Adam looked like God in every way before man fell into sin. Man was immortal just like God. But God gave one law. Do not eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. With this God gave man the power of choice, to obey or to disobey. God place the curse of death on man's disobedience.
Genesis 2:17
But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

God did not say outright what death entailed, that Adam would lose the very image of God and all of his Godly holiness. But what is interesting is when Seth was born, he was not born in the likeness of God, but in the likeness of Adam with the corrupt sin nature that was passed to all of mankind.

The Holy Spirit does not seal you against disobedience. But He seals us unto Jesus Christ as His. You understand it is like we are branded so every demon in Hell knows who we are. You still have the power of choice to obey or disobey. But we have forgiveness of sin/disobedience through Jesus's blood and remission of sin by faith in Jesus' sacrifice for us.

I hope this helps.
Blessings

 

[Maria Billingsley]

Yes of course - but you miss my point.

If the Holy Spirit was indwelling Adam like was promised in the New Covenant to come by Jeremiah and Ezekiel, the Spirit of the Fear of the Lord would have prevented them from blatant disobedience.

The fact that they blatantly disobeyed to the extent of spiritual death indicates they were not indwelled by the Holy Spirit.

Adam and Eve were given free will. They chose to disobey. They hid themselves from God because they were aware of their disobedience. They "quenched" God like we quench the Holy Spirit. The flesh is weak.
God walked with Adam and Eve. He was there with them. He did not have to be inside them they were already inside Eden where He was. The Kingdom of God was in their midst. Then God kicked them out of Eden cutting them off from His Holy Spirit. God is the Holy Spirit.
Well, we may go in circles sorry to say. It seems to me that how we define the Holy Spirit has an effect on our understanding of Him.
In my humble opinion, God is the Holy Spirit and He dwelled with Adam and Eve until the fall.

 

[bling]

Adam messed up when he added to God's command to Eve about the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, telling her that if she even touched the fruit, that she would die, and Satan saw this as his golden opportunity to tempt Eve into risking death by, touching it at first, telling her that God was lying and she would not die, and when she saw that she touched it and did not die, she then brought the fruit to Adam and told him all about it, and then they, together, both ate it, and/or but, did not die immediately, etc...

The Bible also says that Eve was thoroughly deceived or deceived completely, but that Adam was not at all deceived at all, etc...

So Adam had to have known immediately upon Eve coming back with the fruit. So, why did he not say anything to Eve? and why did he just decide to eat the fruit with her when he fully knew, etc...?

Well, that is the question now isn't it...? What was going on in Adam's head and heart at that time, etc...?

I think it was because of "Love" though, Love for his wife, etc...

But he was in a position to where he had to choose between his Love for her, and his Love for God, etc, and probably also had his mistake in mind also or as well, and maybe not knowing what God was going to do about it all when He showed back up again or returned, but may have maybe feared for his wife, and so maybe decided to share in her fate, also maybe knowing that he might have had to share in her fate anyway, regardless, because it was his error and his mistake really, but it was also only Eve and Eve only who choose to listen to the serpent over Adam and God, and directly disobey God, even though Adam may have also, but indirectly, with his mistake with Eve, with adding to God's commandments or Word with Eve, etc...

Anyway,

God Bless!

I agree with most of what you are saying, but I do not think it was a choice between Loving God and Loving Eve. Adam's "love" for Eve had grown to the point he was "with" Eve and thus felt he could not live without Eve and thus was willing to go where ever Eve was going. Adam lacked Godly type Love for God.

 

[Carl Emerson]

God did not say outright what death entailed, that Adam would lose the very image of God and all of his Godly holiness. But what is interesting is when Seth was born, he was not born in the likeness of God, but in the likeness of Adam with the corrupt sin nature that was passed to all of mankind.

How do you explain Genesis 9:6... God gave instructions to Noah...

Whoever sheds human blood,
By man his blood shall be shed,
For in the image of God
He made mankind.

It is clear that in Noah's time man was still in God's image.

 

[Carl Emerson]

The Holy Spirit does not seal you against disobedience.

How then do you explain Jeremiah 32:40? It doesnt seem to agree with you...

"I will make an everlasting covenant with them that I will not turn away from them, to do them good; and I will put the fear of Me in their hearts, so that they will not turn away from Me...."

 

[bling]

Some members strongly hold this view - your comments appreciated.

Adam and Eve were made “very good” by God’s standard which may mean as good as any made being could be made, but that is not perfect like Christ is perfect.

If Adam and Eve had the indwelling portion of the Holy Spirit, could they have kept from sinning since the Spirit cannot be involved in sinning. Christians today have the indwelling Holy Spirit, but can quench the Spirit and go on their own sinning, but if left unquenched how can a person sin?

What good logical reason would God have for not providing the indwelling Holy Spirit to Adam and Eve and thus keep them from sinning?

If God just wanted to keep Adam and Eve from sinning (eating from the tree) He could have built a huge fence around the tree, not allowed satan in the garden, had lots of guards around the tree, made the fruit ugly and smelly, had the fruit give you the ability to spit ten feet (not knowledge) and lots of other ways.

What do we learn from Adam and Eve eating the fruit, which helps us today and them in the beginning?

What is God trying to accomplish from allowing Adam and Eve to sin?

 

[Handmaid for Jesus]

How do you explain Genesis 9:6... God gave instructions to Noah...

Whoever sheds human blood,
By man his blood shall be shed,
For in the image of God
He made mankind.

It is clear that in Noah's time man was still in God's image.

Man WAS created/made in the image of God. But man fell into sin and corrupted the image of God because sin entered into him. No, Noah was NOT in the image of God, but in the image of sinful Adam. OK look at the scripture.
Genesis 5:3
And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness and after his image; and called his name Seth:
Romans 5:12
Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

In Noah's time, God destroyed the Earth in the flood.
Gen. 6:5 And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

6 And it repented the Lord that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.

7 And the Lord said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

 

[Handmaid for Jesus]

How then do you explain Jeremiah 32:40? It doesnt seem to agree with you...

"I will make an everlasting covenant with them that I will not turn away from them, to do them good; and I will put the fear of Me in their hearts, so that they will not turn away from Me...."

He is speaking of the New Covenant. See what the scripture says about our sealing,

1. Ephesians 1:13
   In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
   
   
2. Ephesians 4:30
   And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

 

[Carl Emerson]

He is speaking of the New Covenant. See what the scripture says about our sealing,

1. Ephesians 1:13
   In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
   
   
2. Ephesians 4:30
   And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

Yes I agree, but if the Indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit was in Adam - according to Jeremiah - Adam would not have turned against God because the Fear of God within him would have prevented it.

Personally I do not believe the Holy Spirit indwelled Adam.

I think we have not really understood what is meant by being made in the image of God.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Man WAS created/made in the image of God. But man fell into sin and corrupted the image of God because sin entered into him. No, Noah was NOT in the image of God, but in the image of sinful Adam. OK look at the scripture.
Genesis 5:3
And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness and after his image; and called his name Seth:
Romans 5:12
Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

In Noah's time, God destroyed the Earth in the flood.
Gen. 6:5 And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

6 And it repented the Lord that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.

7 And the Lord said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

If Man 'lost' the image of God at the fall - Genesis 9:6 would not refer to mankind still having it.

 

[Handmaid for Jesus]

If Man 'lost' the image of God at the fall - Genesis 9:6 would not refer to mankind still having it.

But it did not say he still had it. Genesis 6 said all flesh had corrupted his way. Now you don't have to spell it out that there is no corruption in God.
Genesis 6:12
And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth.

 

[Carl Emerson]

As I read it the context is in reference to the penalty for murder.

The reason why a life was required was because persons alive at that time were in God's image.

 

[Handmaid for Jesus]

Yes I agree, but if the Indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit was in Adam - according to Jeremiah - Adam would not have turned against God because the Fear of God within him would have prevented it.

We have the Holy Spirit within us, yet at times we sin. Of course we have repentence, But the Holy Spirit does not prevent us from sinning.

Personally I do not believe the Holy Spirit indwelled Adam.

So you don't believe Adam was just like God? The Bible said God crowned man with glory. What do you think that was?

I think we have not really understood what is meant by being made in the image of God.

I think you are right.

 

[Carl Emerson]

We have the Holy Spirit within us, yet at times we sin. Of course we have repentence, But the Holy Spirit does not prevent us from sinning.

Correct - but sinning to the point of spiritual death is prevented by the indwelling presence of the Spirit of the Fear of the Lord, just as Jeremiah predicted.