Was Adam indwelled by the Holy Spirit before the fall?

[JAL]

OK got it...

We have different definitions of revival I guess.

I guess we should rejoice in the degree of revival we have enjoyed and encourage one another.

Our church went from about 100 to 450 in months, folks were hanging out the windows of the original old building. Conversion growth spiked.

But my focus was co-running a 24 hour inner city ministry at the time and we took over two floors of a building and ran it by faith with a donation box on the wall. A prostitutes room became our chapel in which many were healed. We also ran an open home.

I suspect you only use the term revival when the move of God is so strong that folks are on their knees in the streets.

Sorry for the misunderstanding.

And what did you mean by these words:

And it continues - we have witnessed two dramatic healings from cancer this year one a member on CF.

Was that not meant to imply that said revival continues? If not, what did you mean?

 

[Carl Emerson]

And what did you mean by these words:

Was that not meant to imply that said revival continues? If not, what did you mean?

Fair question...

I was shown that I would have to wait 40 years before being able to share what I have learned and enter into some form of ministry again.

Part fo that period has been out of church altogether.

But my life has been punctuated by the miraculous enough to keep me encouraged I guess.

So what has continued is His faithfulness and evidence of His healing love from time to time. This has increased in the last two years or so and I am expectant of further increase.

I have had little to do with the modern church movement.

Just over a year ago I was woken in the night with a surge of His Healing Love and a call back to 'ministry in the church' (I have never held an official position in a church)

On teachability I am weary of those who presume to judge the state of heart of another on line.

On whether I know anything, knowing Him is Truth. It has been a long hard road. Epignosis is a gift.

 

[JAL]

Fair question...

I was shown that I would have to wait 40 years before being able to share what I have learned and enter into some form of ministry again.

Part fo that period has been out of church altogether.

But my life has been punctuated by the miraculous enough to keep me encouraged I guess.

So what has continued is His faithfulness and evidence of His healing love from time to time. This has increased in the last two years or so and I am expectant of further increase.

If I was supposed to deduce all that from your words "And it continues" it's amazing you acted "shocked" at how badly I misread you. ANYONE reading those words of yours would likely have understood them to mean, "Said revival continues."

On teachability I am weary of those who presume to judge the state of heart of another on line.

I don't presume anything (see my signature). Just stating my opinion.

On whether I know anything, knowing Him is Truth. It has been a long hard road. Epignosis is a gift.

Which you just confirmed again by responding to my tautology with another pretense of rebuttal instead of acknowledging that it is a valid point of view. How is that teachablility on your part?

Or, maybe you reject the tautology - maybe you believe that today's Christians ARE infallible. If so, why?

 

[Carl Emerson]

I don't presume anything (see my signature). Just stating my opinion.

It seems to me that you are free to claim you only have opinions.

From that position you can never know if anyone else knows anything or not.

Yet you emphatically pronounce they cant...

Mmmm... sounds rather circular.

 

[JAL]

It seems to me that you are free to claim you only have opinions.

From that position you can never know if anyone else knows anything or not.

Yet you emphatically pronounce they cant...

Mmmm... sounds rather circular.

It's not circular. My assertion that people don't know anything is my OPINION.

You are free to rebut that opinion, as ALREADY STATED - you are free to assert that today's Christians are infallible. However, in my opinion that would place upon you quite a burden of proof.

 

[Carl Emerson]

It's not circular. My assertion that people don't know anything is my OPINION.

You are free to rebut that opinion, as ALREADY STATED - you are free to assert that today's Christians are infallible. However, in my opinion that would place upon you quite a burden of proof.

No one is infallible, but that doesn't mean they don't know anything...

 

[JAL]

No one is infallible, but that doesn't mean they don't know anything...

Really? If I'm fallible, I don't know anything for sure, right?

 

[JAL]

No one is infallible, but that doesn't mean they don't know anything...

Remember that there are 100 billion souls at stake whenever you claim to KNOW stuff about evangelism, sanctification, missions, etc. If you get it wrong - if you do things the wrong way - a LOT of people might be lost. The failure of the church to take this possibility seriously is incredibly uncompassionate and might be the MAIN REASON for the paucity of revival. In my opinion, frankly, it IS the main reason.

 

[JAL]

In other words, a commitment to seeking infallible revelation - otherwise known as prophecy - is ESSENTIAL to eliciting revival from God because it shows REAL COMPASSION AND CONCERN for the lost. And I can make a pretty strong case that the Bible DEFINES real evangelism - and thus any major revival - as the utterance of infallible revelations.

 

[JAL]

And it all begins with:
(1) Admitting we are fallible.
(2) Admitting that state to be unsatisfactory. You STILL haven't done so, in this conversation.
(3) Asking God to correct it by granting us infallible revelation.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Sorry but you cant force your own uncertainty on everyone else...

Lets stick to scripture...

1 John 2

25 This is the promise which He Himself made to us: eternal life.

26 These things I have written to you concerning those who are trying to deceive you. 27 And as for you, the anointing which you received from Him remains in you, and you have no need for anyone to teach you; but as His anointing teaches you about all things, and is true and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you remain in Him.

 

[JAL]

Sorry but you cant force your own uncertainty on everyone else...

Stop telling lies. I didn't "force" anything on anyone. I've repeatedly ASKED you, are Christians infallible? You admitted they aren't. You just don't want to further admit that such concession seems to validate my main point.

Lets stick to scripture...

1 John 2

25 This is the promise which He Himself made to us: eternal life.

26 These things I have written to you concerning those who are trying to deceive you. 27 And as for you, the anointing which you received from Him remains in you, and you have no need for anyone to teach you; but as His anointing teaches you about all things, and is true and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you remain in Him.

John was likely writing to his own DISCIPLES - presumably prophets who DID know stuff.

 

[Guojing]

Think eschatology. Refers to the end times and/or the next life. I tried to be clear that I was referring to the next life (heaven).

Alright, at least we agree that the New Covenant has not begun yet.

 

[JAL]

Alright, at least we agree that the New Covenant has not begun yet.

Sounds good to me.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Stop telling lies. I didn't "force" anything on anyone. I've repeatedly ASKED you, are Christians infallible? You admitted they aren't. You just don't want to further admit that such concession seems to validate my main point.



John was likely writing to his own DISCIPLES - presumably prophets who DID know stuff.

You are presenting as being somewhat aggressive (in my opinion)

Claiming folks are liars doesn't help your cause.

The scripture I quoted and others I can refer to establishes it is normative for believers to know the truth.

This does not make them infallible.

 

[Carl Emerson]

The New Covenant began at the Cross.

 

[JAL]

You are presenting as being somewhat aggressive (in my opinion)

Claiming folks are liars doesn't help your cause.

The scripture I quoted and others I can refer to establishes it is normative for believers to know the truth.

This does not make them infallible.

No you're reading just confirms your fallibility. You never really considered, until I mentioned it, that the passage might be addressed to prophets.

The truth is we don't KNOW whether it was addressed to prophets. We don't KNOW stuff. We don't know anything at all. And until Christians are honest about that fact, good luck with obtaining revival.

 

[eleos1954]

Some members strongly hold this view - your comments appreciated.

Adam did not have the Holy Spirit in him, though he did live in a state of sinless perfection. Adam lived in a state of innocence, not knowing the difference between good and evil.

Adam was not spiritually dead before God until the Fall, so no need for the Mediator or the Holy Spirit.

 

[HARK!]

MOD HAT ON

Per the OP's request:

MOD HAT OFF​