Warp Drive

[Eudaimonist]

How NASA might build its very first warp drive

A few months ago, physicist Harold White stunned the aeronautics world when he announced that he and his team at NASA had begun work on the development of a faster-than-light warp drive. His proposed design, an ingenious re-imagining of an Alcubierre Drive, may eventually result in an engine that can transport a spacecraft to the nearest star in a matter of weeks — and all without violating Einstein's law of relativity...

All we need is some "exotic matter", but not nearly as much of it as had been thought before.

So, will NASA succeed?


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[Resha Caner]

Sigh

 

[Eudaimonist]

Sigh

Is that a "no"?


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[Resha Caner]

Is that a "no"?

I have no idea. I'm just skeptical.

Given that skepticism, I have several reactions:
1) Maybe I should have tried for a job at NASA so I could could work on really cool (useless) stuff like that.
2) How can they get funded to work on something like that when I can't get funding for much more practical projects?
3) What do they really hope to achieve? Suppose it did work. Then what? Joy rides into empty space? Part of my skepticism regards whether this would ever be financially viable enough to ever be of any practical benefit - even if they did use this to "mine" space or find aliens.

 

[freezerman2000]

They may succeed,but I doubt very seriously that it will be in our lifetime.
I'd like them to be able to harness the power of the sun to work on wormhole technology..no need for FTL flight.

 

[Eudaimonist]

I have no idea. I'm just skeptical.

Being skeptical is fine.

1) Maybe I should have tried for a job at NASA so I could could work on really cool (useless) stuff like that.

There might not be a big payoff in our lifetimes for such research, but I would hardly call a working warp drive "useless".

2) How can they get funded to work on something like that when I can't get funding for much more practical projects?

Two words. warp drive.

Seriously, what do you have to compete with that? It's the Holy Grail of technology, or at least one of them.

3) What do they really hope to achieve? Suppose it did work. Then what? Joy rides into empty space?

Joy rides? Are you kidding me?

• Travelling the galaxy and exploring other solar systems
• Cultivating resources
• Discovering if life (intelligent or otherwise) exists elsewhere in the Milky Way
• Scientific research
• Colonization of Earth-like worlds!

There's far more than "empty space" out there. Scientists are already discovering evidence of water-laden worlds in other solar systems a bit like Earth.

Part of my skepticism regards whether this would ever be financially viable enough to ever be of any practical benefit - even if they did use this to "mine" space or find aliens.

Why does there have to be a return on investment? There are human values others than purely financial ones.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[Resha Caner]

Scientists are already discovering evidence of water-laden worlds in other solar systems a bit like Earth.

Cool. Something else for us to pollute.

Why does there have to be a return on investment? There are human values others than purely financial ones.

Easy to say when you're not hungry. So how much are you willing to pay for this? What would you give up to pay higher taxes to keep this going?

Yes, there are other values, but aesthetics can be pursued at a much lower cost than this will probably be. Why don't we just let the aliens pay for it - they can come and pick us up in their spaceship for that joy ride.

 

[SkyWriting]

All we need is some "exotic matter", but not nearly as much of it as had been thought before.
So, will NASA succeed?

eudaimonia,
Mark

The story is Science Fiction.
It is fictional but draws on some scientific facts such as there may be
such a person who works on advanced designs at NASA.
But the rest is fiction.

 

[Michael]

All we need is some "exotic matter", but not nearly as much of it as had been thought before.

From my perspective, you might as well be saying all we need is some "magic matter", but not not as much as before.

So, will NASA succeed?

If they could name even a legitimate source of "dark" thingamabobs, they might.

 

[Wiccan_Child]

Cool. Something else for us to pollute.

Yes, something other than Earth. Humans swarm over this planet and have encrusted it in machinery; other planets would take decades, centuries to succumb to the same effect, and we'll have the benefit of foresight this time.

And the universe is vast, it's not like we'll run out of space. We can just use the emptiness of space as a vast dumping ground and we'll never see it again.

Easy to say when you're not hungry. So how much are you willing to pay for this? What would you give up to pay higher taxes to keep this going?

Science for its own sake always has benefits. Could you have predicted the benefit of pursuing electricity or computing?

Yes, there are other values, but aesthetics can be pursued at a much lower cost than this will probably be. Why don't we just let the aliens pay for it - they can come and pick us up in their spaceship for that joy ride.

Why don't we all work pro bono and reap the rewards? Because it doesn't work that way. Harnessing space has the potential to feed the world, and create new cures to old diseases.

 

[Eudaimonist]

Cool. Something else for us to pollute.

Sounds great, considering that pollution will probably take place somewhere without a pre-existing ecosystem. There is plenty of space to pollute. I don't see the downside.

Easy to say when you're not hungry.

Yeah, so? When I am hungry, I won't be donating money to the cause.

So how much are you willing to pay for this? What would you give up to pay higher taxes to keep this going?

No taxes. However, I might be willing to donate some money within my means. If I were a billionaire, I would donate far more than I can now.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[Resha Caner]

... we'll have the benefit of foresight this time ...

I don't buy that we're smarter than our ancestors. History is full of opportunities to start over. Yet here we are.

We can just use the emptiness of space as a vast dumping ground and we'll never see it again.

Not really. We're already bombarded by a form of space junk. That's one of the jobs of the atmosphere - to protect us from that. But it doesn't always work.

Science for its own sake always has benefits. Could you have predicted the benefit of pursuing electricity or computing?

No. Could you? Could you have predicted the success of phlogiston, the Westinghouse J40, etc.? Don't just look at the successes. The typical ratio that is thrown around is 10 failures for every success.

So, when rich guys in wigs were playing with glass spheres in 1700, the 10 failures didn't cost that much. Now it costs quite a bit, and it comes from my tax money. So don't I get a vote? There are things I would vote for even though they only have a low chance of success. Just not this.

That was the question you didn't answer. How much are you willing to pay for this?

Harnessing space has the potential to feed the world, and create new cures to old diseases.

So why would I buy this prediction?

... it doesn't work that way.

Are you suggesting a scientific aristocracy to make these decisions, with no voice amongst taxpayers regarding what gets funded?

 

[Resha Caner]

No taxes.

That's how this is being funded now.

However, I might be willing to donate some money within my means. If I were a billionaire, I would donate far more than I can now.

Wiggle words. What are your "means"? You're not a billionaire, so what are you willing to sacrifice? Internet access? Comfort food? Shoes? Your house?

 

[Eudaimonist]

That's how this is being funded now.

I know that.

Wiggle words.

The details of my personal finances are none of your business. I'm not going to give numbers.

You're not a billionaire, so what are you willing to sacrifice? Internet access? Comfort food? Shoes? Your house?

No, it would come from money that I'm able to save from month to month.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[Resha Caner]

The details of my personal finances are none of your business. I'm not going to give numbers.

It was a rhetorical question.

No, it would come from money that I'm able to save from month to month.

Still not an answer. There are people here in the U.S. losing their houses ... and they're in good shape compared to people in Greece & Spain ... and they're in good shape compared to people in Syria right now.

So why should those people be giving up their houses for warp drive? How do you think they're going to vote on tax issues? If Warren Buffet, Bill Gates, etc. etc. wants to pay for this from their personal bank account - great. Go for it. Start a fund drive. Then it's no longer my business.

But given your reaction to a question about your own personal finances, why should even the billionaires react any differently than "that's my business" - even to a request to help someone keep their home.

 

[freezerman2000]

I suggest that we mine the asteroid belt for natural resources and use the profit to help fund the FTL project.
It can be done roboticaly. Gemma Arterton - IMDb

 

[TemperateSeaIsland]

Interesting concept but exotic matter is still theoretical and the energy demands are still orders of magnitude more than we can achieve. Even if a working drive design with the required energy source did drop into our laps we still don't really have the infrastructure to exploit it, designing and building a suitable craft to house drive/reactor would require massive investment.

If it is possible it won't be technically feasible for possibly centuries.

Still cool idea.

 

[Eudaimonist]

Still not an answer.

More information is none of your business.

So why should those people be giving up their houses for warp drive?

I never said that they should, and I never said that people should be taxed to fund warp drive research.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[Resha Caner]

I never said that they should, and I never said that people should be taxed to fund warp drive research.

So your discretionary money for the month is in hand. The director of NASA comes to ask you for it. At the same time, someone whose house is about to be repossessed comes to ask you for it.

How do you allocate the money?

 

[Mr. Pedantic]

Sounds great, considering that pollution will probably take place somewhere without a pre-existing ecosystem. There is plenty of space to pollute. I don't see the downside.



Yeah, so? When I am hungry, I won't be donating money to the cause.



No taxes. However, I might be willing to donate some money within my means. If I were a billionaire, I would donate far more than I can now.


eudaimonia,

Mark

Taxes are the only realistically viable way of funding such a project.