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Discussion in 'Debate Other Religions & Faiths' started by Phoebe Ann, Jul 9, 2019 at 8:03 PM.

  1. JacobKStarkey

    JacobKStarkey Well-Known Member

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    To make a point: the 'old settlers' in Missouri ordered a printing press destroyed because people printed things about them ;)?
     
  2. Devin P

    Devin P Well-Known Member

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    What is the doctrine and covenants you're referencing?
     
  3. devin553344

    devin553344 Enlighten our lives dear Lord

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    D&C or doctrine and covenants are rules and procedures with other revelations establish by Joseph Smith the Mormon prophet: Doctrine and Covenants

    D&C 97:21: Therefore, verily, thus saith the Lord, let Zion rejoice, for this is Zion—the pure in heart; therefore, let Zion rejoice, while all the wicked shall mourn.

    D&C 82:14" For Zion must increase in beauty, and in holiness; her borders must be enlarged; her stakes must be strengthened; yea, verily I say unto you, Zion must arise and put on her beautiful garments.
     
  4. JacobKStarkey

    JacobKStarkey Well-Known Member

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    Title Page

    The D&C are the revelations to LDS prophets (primarily Joseph Smith Jr.) in this day and age, along with the covenants that His people are to make with him and uphold. LDS and CoC and other Mormon sects that use a form of the D&C will have different numberings.

    Non-Mormon Christians argue that the D&C is not legit because they hold to the "no more revelation" or the "no more adding to this book" arguments in the Bible, although the Bible had not been gathered and canonized when those scriptures were written. I personally think such "no more" pertains to that particular book and nothing more.
     
  5. devin553344

    devin553344 Enlighten our lives dear Lord

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    As far as "pure in heart" relating to Zion, we do have Matthew 5:8

    “Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God”

    And I found this page, which may relate to people that keep the commandments:What does it mean to be pure in heart?

    But the page I linked also indicates purification thru Jesus the Christ. Therefore LDS cannot claim to be the only Zion that D&C 97:21 refers to. Unless they're claiming that God only works with the LDS religion thru its leadership.
     
  6. JacobKStarkey

    JacobKStarkey Well-Known Member

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    The LDS belief is that its First Presidency alone authoritatively speaks for God in these matters.
     
  7. Ironhold

    Ironhold Member

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    When the church moved to Missouri, a local printing press was hired to print a book that compiled many of Joseph Smith's early revelations.

    Once word of this got out, a mob of locals stormed the press, destroyed it, and tried to destroy as many pages of manuscript as they could.
     
  8. His student

    His student Well-Known Member

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    The Koran teaches that those who fight again Islam will be cursed as well.

    But as for me and my house - we will continue to fight their false teachings and those of the Mormon church wherever we encounter them and as long as we have breath to do.
     
  9. JacobKStarkey

    JacobKStarkey Well-Known Member

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    I am sure that the Mormons and Muslims and Pentecostals and those of Church of Christ and on and so forth will follow the guidance of Joshua as well.
     
  10. Devin P

    Devin P Well-Known Member

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    I know you will believe as you believe, but Joseph Smith wasn't a prophet. If he can't pass the Deuteronomy 13 test, he's not a prophet. Read Deuteronomy 13 and compare it to his writings.
     
  11. Michael Collum

    Michael Collum Everything began with a voice, use yours Supporter

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    Isaiah 29
    8 It shall even be as when an hungry man dreameth, and, behold, he eateth; but he awaketh, and his soul is empty: or as when a thirsty man dreameth, and, behold, he drinketh; but he awaketh, and, behold, he is faint, and his soul hath appetite: so shall the multitude of all the nations be, that fight against mount Zion.
    9 ¶ Stay yourselves, and wonder; cry ye out, and cry: they are drunken, but not with wine; they stagger, but not with strong drink.
    10 For the LORD hath poured out upon you the spirit of deep sleep, and hath
    closed your eyes: the prophets and your rulers, the seers hath he covered.
    11 And the vision of all is become unto you as the words of a book that is sealed, which men deliver to one that is learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I cannot; for it is sealed:
    12 And the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I am not learned.
    13 Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as this people draw near me with their mouth, and with their lips do honour me, but have removed their heart far from me, and their fear toward me is taught by the precept of men:
    14 Therefore, behold, I will proceed to do a marvellous work among this people, even a marvellous work and a wonder: for the wisdom of their wise men shall perish, and the understanding of their prudent men shall be hid.
    15 Woe unto them that seek deep to hide their counsel from the LORD, and their works are in the dark, and they say, Who seeth us? and who knoweth us?

    16 Surely your turning of things upside down shall be esteemed as the potter’s clay: for shall the work say of him that made it, He made me not? or shall the thing framed say of him that framed it, He had no understanding?

    It's obvious that the fighting against Zion prophecy in Isaiah is speaking of the time of Christ, not the time of the Mormons or Nephi. This is yet another prophet Nephi disagrees with.
     
  12. devin553344

    devin553344 Enlighten our lives dear Lord

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    That's why I called him a Mormon prophet. I don't believe he was a true prophet personally.

    BTW Mormons could argue that they past that test. The test they failed for being a prophet is this one: Isaiah 46:10-11

    10 I make known the end from the beginning,
    from ancient times, what is still to come.
    I say, ‘My purpose will stand,
    and I will do all that I please.’
    11 From the east I summon a bird of prey;
    from a far-off land, a man to fulfill my purpose.
    What I have said, that I will bring about;
    what I have planned, that I will do.

    For instance where were all the miracles of the Prophet and predictions. The LDS will argue that Joseph Smiths predictions did happen, but if you look you will find that they did not. The most obvious being the return of Christ.
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2019 at 4:54 PM
  13. JacobKStarkey

    JacobKStarkey Well-Known Member

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    So many Christian 'prophets' failed that last one, devin553344, not JS Jr.
     
  14. devin553344

    devin553344 Enlighten our lives dear Lord

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    Do you think JS Jr was a prophet of God?
     
  15. JacobKStarkey

    JacobKStarkey Well-Known Member

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    Do you? I am not any type of Mormon.
     
  16. devin553344

    devin553344 Enlighten our lives dear Lord

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    I think the question here is about Zion.

    Although the OP probably was kinda unclear as to a specific question.
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2019 at 8:24 PM
  17. Grip Docility

    Grip Docility Well-Known Member

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    Congratulations for leaving the Creation to seal your relationship with the Creator!

    All Love in Jesus Christ to you!
     
  18. Peter1000

    Peter1000 Well-Known Member

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    The bible is part of our scripture, we believe all of it, as well as other scriptures.
     
  19. Peter1000

    Peter1000 Well-Known Member

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    And some of those battles that Moses fought included hand to hand combat.
     
  20. BigDaddy4

    BigDaddy4 Movin' on...

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    We know the lds interpretation of "all" doesn't really mean everything...
     
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