War

[The Times]

Jesus was not supposed to be defended -- he was voluntarily going to his suffering and death. This was not the same for the disciples. This is why it was not to defend Jesus, but to defend themselves.

Again, the swords as Jesus said was to fulfill prophesy.

36He said to them, “But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. 37It is written: ‘And he was numbered with the transgressors’; and I tell you that this must be fulfilled in me. Yes, what is written about me is reaching its fulfillment.” (Luke 22:36-37)

 

[RDKirk]

It was very fortunate that they didn't need them. Perhaps it was simply Jesus intent to teach them that it was appropriate to take measures to defend themselves.

James was killed. John and Peter certainly could have been. When otherwise would "need" have begun?

Paul constantly faced physical danger, beaten by crowds, arrested, stoned by the mobs, had a "hit" put out on him...but there is not a single word--not a hint--of him even considering defending himself in violence.

But when the Roman government moved in its normal function of maintaining public order, that provided a shield for Paul. And that is how it should be between the state and the Church. That is why we are explicitly instructed to pray specifically that the those in authority provide a safe environment...but that's not the role of Christians.

 

[Meowzltov]

James was killed. John and Peter certainly could have been. When otherwise would "need" have begun?

Paul constantly faced physical danger, beaten by crowds, arrested, stoned by the mobs, had a "hit" put out on him...but there is not a single word--not a hint--of him even considering defending himself in violence.

But when the Roman government moved in its normal function of maintaining public order, that provided a shield for Paul. And that is how it should be between the state and the Church. That is why we are explicitly instructed to pray specifically that the those in authority provide a safe environment...but that's not the role of Christians.

First of all, I simply disagree with your conclusions. We have to cooperate with God. If I pray to God to keep me safe on the freeway, but drive drunk, that goes against God's ways.

Secondly, not defending one's self or innocents being attacked violates the sanctity of life. "Do not stand idly by your brother's blood." Leviticus 19:16

 

[Meowzltov]

Just mark it in your future calander and wait and see if it comes exactly as I have prophesied onto you.

And when it doesn't, shall we invoke some penalty for a false prophet?

 

[The Times]

And when it doesn't, shall we invoke some penalty for a false prophet?

Don't you think that by saying what you just said, that you have already labelled me a false prophet and prepared for me a penalty, before things have even come into fruition?

I perceive a shock and mock. Laugh and chuckle, if you want, but I will endure all things for the love of Christ Jesus.

 

[Meowzltov]

Don't you think that by saying what you just said, that you have already labelled me a false prophet and prepared for me a penalty, before things have even come into fruition?

I perceive a shock and mock. Laugh and chuckle, if you want, but I will endure all things for the love of Christ Jesus.

I don't believe anyone is a prophet who tells the future. The future has been told by John. There is no need for repetition or elaboration -- if God had wanted to say more, he would have told John more.

I do think that you believe you are a prophet, meaning you are not a con man. Therefore I don't know that any punishment lies in store. However, the truth is that such is taught for false prophets. Personally if I saw a vision, I would have to be very, very positive that it wasn't my creative imagination giving me my intuition on the matter before stating it was a prophecy, since that might be wrong.

 

[The Times]

I don't believe anyone is a prophet who tells the future. The future has been told by John. There is no need for repetition or elaboration -- if God had wanted to say more, he would have told John more.

I do think that you believe you are a prophet, meaning you are not a con man. Therefore I don't know that any punishment lies in store. However, the truth is that such is taught for false prophets. Personally if I saw a vision, I would have to be very, very positive that it wasn't my creative imagination giving me my intuition on the matter before stating it was a prophecy, since that might be wrong.

We were discussing our contentions in regards to the existence of such thing as a just war.

I never told you that I saw a vision.
I never told you in this dialogue that I am a prophet.

However what you have testified without me ever telling you these things in this thread, is enough to be counted as a witness. Thankyou.

Sometimes God reveals things to comfort the servant speaking his words by those who would oppose the very same words, by unwittingly testifying of the role of that person, without that person ever declaring themselves as such.

I find it ironic and comforting at the same time. Well done @Open Heart

 

[Meowzltov]

I never told you in this dialogue that I am a prophet.

If you are stating a prophecy, that makes you a prophet: a prophet is someone who prophecies. So unless you were using hyperbole (which maybe you were) your post implied you were a prophet. I, however, have specifically testified that I believe otherwise, although I have tried to do so in the kindest way I could, because I do try to take care with people's feelings.

Our conversation is over. You continue to insist that you are a prophet. You don't use those exact words, but what you do say directly implies it. Such as this:

However what you have testified without me ever telling you these things in this thread, is enough to be counted as a witness.

and this:

Sometimes God reveals things to comfort the servant speaking his words by those who would oppose the very same words, by unwittingly testifying of the role of that person

 

[RDKirk]

First of all, I simply disagree with your conclusions. We have to cooperate with God. If I pray to God to keep me safe on the freeway, but drive drunk, that goes against God's ways.

Secondly, not defending one's self or innocents being attacked violates the sanctity of life. "Do not stand idly by your brother's blood." Leviticus 19:16

We don't cooperate with God.

We do things His way. We go His way. We perform His mission.

We serve God, we don't cooperate with God.

 

[Meowzltov]

We don't cooperate with God.

We do things His way. We go His way. We perform His mission.

We serve God, we don't cooperate with God.

We serve God of our own free will. That's cooperation.

 

[Sammy-San]

That's kind of a round-about logic. War took away the chances for every kind of outcome, both good and bad, both salvation and apostasy. It took away the Germans' chance to take away the chance of salvation from other peoples of other nations. In truth, it was death that ended their continued chance of salvation, and not war in particular, and death comes to everyone.

Like I always say, war is a sin for both sides, but pacifism for one can be the far greater sin in the face of a truly wicked enemy.

I don't understand war. People can defend from attacks without being so brutal and taking away another person's salvation chance.

 

[Meowzltov]

I don't understand war. People can defend from attacks without being so brutal and taking away another person's salvation chance.

There are different kinds of war.

There are pointless wars like WW1, in which the reasons for war are dubious, and there is no end in sight, one is caught in an endless stalemate where the front simply doesn't move. And then there are what we call just wars, where one is attacked by an aggressor and is fighting for survival.

WW2 was an example of such a war. German and Japan were intent on taking over the world by force. They were basically raping and subjugating the countries they conquered. They were imposing eugenics and racial policies on those countries that were crimes against humanity. In such wars, it would be immoral not to fight back.

 

[PollyJetix]

We don't cooperate with God.

We do things His way. We go His way. We perform His mission.

We serve God, we don't cooperate with God.

From the dictionary:
co·op·er·ate
kōˈäpəˌrāt/
verb
1. To act jointly; work toward the same end.
"the leaders promised to cooperate in ending the civil war"
2. assist someone or comply with their requests.

1 Corinthians 3:9 For we are God's fellow workers. You are God's field, God's building.
2 Corinthians 6:1 Working together with him, then, we appeal to you not to receive the grace of God in vain.
Mark 16:20 And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.

 

[Meowzltov]

We don't cooperate with God.

We do things His way. We go His way. We perform His mission.

We serve God, we don't cooperate with God.

Doing things God's way, going his way, performing his mission, serving God, are all examples of cooperating with God.