War On Terror

[geocajun]

Reagon made it ok to hate the poor?

 

[Dream]

Reagon made it ok to hate the poor?

Yes, according to Charlie.

 

[Cosmic Charlie]

Actually, if you really want to get specific, we'd been having skirmishes with German cutters and u-boats in the North Atlantic for a while before Pearl Harbor. FDR tried to draw Hitler into declaring war on us. Hitler was too smart for that though, but he had no choice after Pearl Harbor.

True enough, the coast guard was escorting the lend/lease convey's to Iceland.

 

[ufonium2]

You really are having problems with this whole goverment-of-a-country vs. guy-who-has-a-following-thing, aren't you ?

Nope. I recognize that Bin Laden has a more fearful military than a lot of countries, and that the UN's notion of who can and can't declare war is seriously outdated. Jerry Falwell is a guy with a following. Ralph Nader is a guy with a following. If either of those guys declared war on the US, I wouldn't expect anyone to take it seriously. Bin Laden's following has training camps and weapons. When you have a standing army, you cease to be just a guy with a following.

 

[Cosmic Charlie]

You know who I'm talking about. The same Regan that made it ok to hate the poor.

You said that we won the Cold War doing stuff like that and implied it would be a better alternative to our current approach. Isn't this implying that Reagan took the right path?

Heavy sigh.

I know you're only 19 and the keepers of the Reagan legacy have made you believe that Ronnie discovery the World Wide Commie Conspriacy and immediately striped down to his shorts and wrestled it to the ground saving humanity from a fate worse the total extinction.

Give me a break.

Truman, Ike, JFK, LBJ, Nixon, Ford, Carter were all CinC of the Cold War before Ronnie took the Oath of office. The by that time, the Cold War was mostly won. (Generally it is said to have ended in 1975.)

These guys all propped up puppets around the world to keep things under control.

Claimly Reagan won the cold war is like saying Tibbits won WWII. (oh, look it up).

 

[Cosmic Charlie]

Nope. I recognize that Bin Laden has a more fearful military than a lot of countries, and that the UN's notion of who can and can't declare war is seriously outdated. Jerry Falwell is a guy with a following. Ralph Nader is a guy with a following. If either of those guys declared war on the US, I wouldn't expect anyone to take it seriously. Bin Laden's following has training camps and weapons. When you have a standing army, you cease to be just a guy with a following.

I can't talk to you anymore.

 

[JeffreyLloyd]

Oh well, I believe President Bush is the best man for the job.

And 62,000,000 + Americans agree with me.



History will prove that the War on Terror was worth it.

 

[Dream]

Heavy sigh.

I know you're only 19 and the keepers of the Reagan legacy have made you believe that Ronnie discovery the World Wide Commie Conspriacy and immediately striped down to his shorts and wrestled it to the ground saving humanity from a fate worse the total extinction.

Give me a break.

Right. You know exactly what I believe. Thanks for reminding me.

Truman, Ike, JFK, LBJ, Nixon, Ford, Carter were all CinC of the Cold War before Ronnie took the Oath of office. The by that time, the Cold War was mostly won. (Generally it is said to have ended in 1975.)

These guys all propped up puppets around the world to keep things under control.

No doubt all these men had were involved in the Cold War, Reagan was the one that essentially "out-spent" the Soviets. Just look at the national debt: you'll see it increased three-fold under Reagan. That money went towards defense.

 

[Cosmic Charlie]

Right. You know exactly what I believe. Thanks for reminding me.



No doubt all these men had were involved in the Cold War, Reagan was the one that essentially "out-spent" the Soviets. Just look at the national debt: you'll see it increased three-fold under Reagan. That money went towards defense.

Look at the Soviets own records and memiors. They were broke and couldn't keep up with the technology change by no later the 1978. Reagan was there when the wheel when round. He handled it well, but he didn't do the any of the spade work that made it happen.

You know, its sort of intresting, there is a school of thought that the Reagan administration may have, sort of, carryed the USSR for 4 or 5 years to keep the military buildup justified.

Weinburger loved new tools, and Reagan liked to give Weinburger stuff.

Those were interesting times. But you know, if I may wax nostalgic, you could have a cigarette inside an office building in those days. And the three Martini lunch was still expensable.

I never agreeed with his politics, but he did know how to run a country.

 

[Alexis OCA]

I wonder if they can make a "SELF-HATING AMERICA BASHER" icon? This thread should be moved to the politics room.

 

[geocajun]

I wonder if they can make a "SELF-HATING AMERICA BASHER" icon? This thread should be moved to the politics room.

now Greg, remember that we aren't truly free unless we can burn the American flag in protest of anything.

 

[Dream]

Alright Charlie, I'm not in the mood to debate this any further. You win. Reagan was a monster.

We still have the same stance on the original topic. Let's not de-rail this any further.

 

[Dream]

For those of you who missed my earlier post, I recommend you check out these sites for some uplifting pictures of Iraq.

Even if you are against the war, these are still great to look at.

http://www.pbase.com/kburch/the_picture_from_iraq_you_wont_see_in_the_news

http://www.strykernews.com/gallery/smilesfromiraq

 

[Cjwinnit]

Oreilly made a point I had not considered the other day - that gangs in the USA (bloods, crypts, etc..) are terrorists, just like Bin Laden.

I'm not entirely convinced. Terrorists generally have political aims in direct confrontation with national governments.

 

[geocajun]

I'm not entirely convinced. Terrorists generally have political aims in direct confrontation with national governments.

thats a good point, however you did rightly say "generally" and both street gangs and international terrorists have a 'political aim' - its really the scope thats perhaps different.
Regardless, in both flavors -international terrorists, or the bloods and crypts on the street, they are thugs who think they should be in charge and spread fear to get their way.

 

[Cjwinnit]

Regardless, in both flavors -international terrorists, or the bloods and crypts on the street, they are thugs who think they should be in charge and spread fear to get their way.

Quite true. Not a particularly civilized thing to do.....

 

[plainswolf]

Alot of the overtones of the war on terrorism remind me in manyways of events that happened long ago in a batlle between western civilization and Islam. I would suggest the book "The Crusades" By the great Catholic Historian Hillaire Belloc available at TAN books and publishing... great book! I have it myself..

"The Crusades were esssentially a conflict between Christiandom and Islam. To be specific, they were a conflict between Christian civilization and Islam as adopted by "the Turk," those savage, destructive Mongol tribes from Asia. After the terrible Christian defeat at Manzikert in Turkey in 1071 A.D., not only the ancient Christian civilization in the holy land, but Europe itself lay in Mortal peril."

Belloc explains the men, the leadership, the arms, the land, the finances, the motives, the character of the enemy, the heat, the thirst-to put us in a mind to understand why the Crusaders intitially succeeded, why they ultimately failed, and why they went off on the Crusades in the first place. From the military standpoint, Belloc answers that the great Crusading efforts failed because they failed to secure Damascus-and they failed to secure Damascus because of an ongoing lack of reinforcement from Europe.

Hillare predicts here (written in 1937) that we have by no means seen the last of the results of the 12th-century Christian military failure against Islam. He states that "Islam has in the main preserved its soul," and that therefore its material strength may return. On the other hand, Europe is disintegrating, for the Christian cement which held it together has crumbled. And in that great spiritual contrast, states Belloc, lies our great peril from Islam yet today.

http://www.tanbooks.com/index.php/p.../category_id/8/

J.M.J.
plainswolf

 

[Wolseley]

According to the BBC (about the only news organzation with any credibility in Iraq that actually goes out into the country to find stories)
-----------
And this is in an area the US actually has control over. More the a year after Bush declared an end of hositlities.
----------
2) A declarcation of war by one goverment to another is, in fact, an attack on one country by another.
----------
Germany's declaration of war was a formal attack on our country, requiring a full retailitory response.
----------
True enough, the coast guard was escorting the lend/lease convey's to Iceland.
----------
I know you're only 19 and the keepers of the Reagan legacy have made you believe that Ronnie discovery the World Wide Commie Conspriacy and immediately striped down to his shorts and wrestled it to the ground saving humanity from a fate worse the total extinction.
----------
Claimly Reagan won the cold war is like saying Tibbits won WWII.
----------
Look at the Soviets own records and memiors.

Um, not to be picky or anything, but......

"organzation"?

"hositlities"?

"declarcation"?

"retailitory"?

"convey's"?

"Conspriacy"?

"Claimly"?

"memiors"?

Uh.....is them words???

3) What DO they teach you guy in history class these days ?

I don't know. What were they teaching you in English class back then?

 

[Benedicta00]

GregChant-

I think you need to re-read your signature.

I hate to break it to you guys, but many more Iraqis are dying under our rule than died under Saddam. Its getting worse too.

But we aren’t killing these people, Islamic ideology is. I have never understood how anyone can not get that. The American soldiers are not killing anyone, they are defending themselves while they are trying to help a country live like Christ died for all of us to live, free and in peace.

Oreilly made a point I had not considered the other day - that gangs in the USA (bloods, crypts, etc..) are terrorists, just like Bin Laden.

Exactly, where the outrage? Americans are killing and Americas are dying, where is the outrage? But we are outrage when soldiers defending themselves when trying to defend us over here ‘kill’?

 

[lovemysoldier]

I am appalled that our brave men and women in uniform are being demonized and portrayed as heartless cold-blooded killers. The check point incident that was illustrated was unfortunate but lets look deeper in the matter.

Here we see a car full of women and children charging through a check point. Why would do they do that if checkpoint protocol is clearly understood in the region, there are signs posted in their native tongue near and far from the checkpoint, and there are numerous verbal warnings to halt. The Iraqi citizens are glad that we are there. We are freeing them from the terrorists that are plaguing that land. These poor people are forced to live in constant fear of their lives and for their children. Ther people responsible for the terror continue to blow up bridges, cut off power in the heat of the desert, destroy supply lines that the villagers depend on for their daily bread. These awful people wound the innocent and place bombs under them hoping to kill whoever comes to their aid, and it is usually an AMERICAN SOLDIER. These terrorists force families to rush checkpoints and I wouldn't blame them for doing so. They would die a quicker and more humane death from that act than from a torture and beheading party that is common practice for these sick individuals.

It is easy to sit back and judge while sipping on starbucks and living the life of luxery. We live in a blessed country and have no idea what it is like to live life in constant fear and oppression. Without hope there is nothing.

Our American soldiers, the same soldiers that are being demonized in this thread, are helping so many gain hope for a better way of life for their families and their future. They are building schools, hospitals, rebuilding bridges, supplying food, clothing and medicine, giving vaccinations, etc. The Iraqi people have a constitution, a bill of rights and are about to vote in their first free election!

If you are unable to have faith in our government and our soldier that sacrifice EVERYTHING in the pursuit of freedom for ALL of mankind, then at least have faith in our God, our Father. God is in control. We as humans are unable to see the whole picture of what is going on in Iraq, all we see is what is on the news. Just remember that although not all things are good, all things work out for good and God's will WILL be done.

God is the Allmighty commander in chief.

Romans 14:4
4Who are you to condemn God's servants? They are responsible to the Lord, so let him tell them whether they are right or wrong. The Lord's power will help them do as they should.