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was Moses saved ?
And your doctrine teaches Peter was lost since no hypocrites are saved.
was Moses saved ?
And your doctrine teaches Peter was lost since no hypocrites are saved.
sure believe whatever you want your god like the changing tides and wind takes people in and out of salvation like an on and off switch. I want no part of that god. no thank you as you are proving a works based salvation which depends upon you and not God for your salvation.Believes can temporarily lose salvation via by sin and be forgiven and saved again if they confess of their sins to the Lord and they forsake them. That is why it grieves believers to sin. Not only are they hurting God, but they are destroying their own soul by their sin, as well.
I'm not into your hypothetical scenarios I've already told you that several times.So you wouldn't care if a child grew up to be the next George Sodini by overhearing you about how you believe king David was saved WHILE he committed his sins of adultery and murder?
I'm not into your hypothetical scenarios I've already told you that several times.
sure believe whatever you want your god like the changing tides and wind takes people in and out of salvation like an on and off switch. I want no part of that god. no thank you as you are proving a works based salvation which depends upon you and not God for your salvation.
Its exactly what Paul wars against in Galatians 2 about being perfected in the flesh after starting by the spirit in faith. the law is what perfects you not faith in Christ.
I'm afraid I see you teaching just like you see calvins teaching as false. You are promoting legalism, that obedience to the law is what keeps you saved.
Its basically sinless perfectionism you are promoting by law-keeping. Paul has some unkind works for that in Galatians 1 and Galatians 2.
hope this helps !!!
Because you talk about how we are elected to salvation like a Calvinist does.
In addition, in post #1018 you said,
“Do you get it? Jesus is the One who makes you faultless.
It`s not something you did yourself.” ~ Quote by: RickReads.
This implies that God forces things upon you (Which is the hallmark of Calvinism). Sure, you may claim to not be Calvinist, but you believe in Preserverance of the Saints or OSAS (Which is basically God enforcing His will upon a person after they make a one time decision).
No. It's the position of the Bible.
[God said to Adam,]
"But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die." (Genesis 2:17).
Acts 5:1-11 says,
[1] ”But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession, [2] And kept back part of the price, his wife also being privy to it, and brought a certain part, and laid it at the apostles' feet. [3] But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land? [4] Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God. [5] And Ananias hearing these words fell down, and gave up the ghost: and great fear came on all them that heard these things. [6] And the young men arose, wound him up, and carried him out, and buried him. [7] And it was about the space of three hours after, when his wife, not knowing what was done, came in. [8] And Peter answered unto her, Tell me whether ye sold the land for so much? And she said, Yea, for so much. [9] Then Peter said unto her, How is it that ye have agreed together to tempt the Spirit of the Lord? behold, the feet of them which have buried thy husband are at the door, and shall carry thee out. [10] Then fell she down straightway at his feet, and yielded up the ghost: and the young men came in, and found her dead, and, carrying her forth, buried her by her husband. [11] And great fear came upon all the church, and upon as many as heard these things.”
We show our faith by our works (James 2:18) yet we are still saved through faith and not by works. (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9 etc..). Faith is the root of salvation and works are the fruit. No fruit at all demonstrates there is no root.
Meaning, works have to be there.
Let's examine James 2:14-26.
In James 2:14, we read of one who says/claims they have faith but they have no resulting evidential works (to evidence their claim). That is not genuine faith, but a bare profession of faith. So when James asks, "Can that faith save him?" he is saying nothing against genuine faith, but only against an empty profession of faith/dead faith. *So James does not teach that we are saved "by" works. His concern is to show the reality of the faith professed by the individual (James 2:18) and demonstrate that the faith claimed (James 2:14) by the individual is genuine. Simple!
In James 2:19, we see that the demons believe "mental assent" that "there is one God," but they do not believe in/have faith in/trust in/reliance in Jesus Christ for salvation. In other words, they do not believe on the Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 16:31) and are not saved. Their trust and reliance is in Satan, as demonstrated by their rebellion in heaven and continuous evil works.
In James 2:20, "faith without works is dead" does not mean that faith is dead until it produces works and then it becomes a living faith. That's like saying a tree is dead until it produces fruit and then it becomes a living tree. James is simply saying faith that is not accompanied by evidential works demonstrates that it's dead. Again, if someone merely says-claims they have faith but lack resulting evidential works, then he has an empty profession of faith/dead faith and not authentic faith.
In James 2:21, notice closely that James does not say that Abraham's work of offering up Isaac resulted in God's accounting Abraham as righteous. The accounting of Abraham's faith as righteousness was made in Genesis 15:6, many years before his work of offering up Isaac recorded in Genesis 22. The work of Abraham did not have some kind of intrinsic merit to account him as righteous, but it showed or manifested the genuineness of his faith. That is the "sense" in which Abraham was "justified by works." He was shown to be righteous.
In James 2:22, faith made perfect or complete by works means bring to maturity, to complete like love in 1 John 4:18. It doesn't mean that Abraham was finally saved based on the merits of his works after he offered up Isaac on the altar in Genesis 22. When Abraham performed the good work in Genesis 22; he fulfilled the expectations created by the pronouncement of his faith in Genesis 15:6.
In James 2:23, the scripture was fulfilled in vindicating or demonstrating that Abraham believed God and was accounted as righteous. Abraham was accounted as righteous based on his faith (Genesis 15:6) not his works (Romans 4:2-3) long before he offered up Isaac on the altar in Genesis 22.
In James 2:24, James is not using the word "justified" here to mean "accounted as righteous" but is shown to be righteous. James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18) and not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God. (Romans 4:2-3)
In the Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible, the Greek word for justified "dikaioo" #1344 is:
1. to render righteous or such he ought to be
2. to show, exhibit, evince, one to be righteous, such as he is and wishes himself to be considered
3. to declare, pronounce, one to be just, righteous, or such as he ought to be
In Matthew 12:37, we read - "For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned." This is because our words (and our works) reveal the condition of our hearts. Words/works are be evidences for, or against a man's being in a state of righteousness.
God is said to have been justified by those who were baptized by John the Baptist (Luke 7:29). This act pronounced or declared God to be righteous. It did not make him righteous. The basis or ground for the pronouncement was the fact that God IS righteous. Notice that the NIV reads, "acknowledged that God's way was right.." The ESV reads, "they declared God just.." That is the "sense" in which God was "justified." He was shown to be righteous.
Matthew 11:19 "The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, 'Behold, a gluttonous man and a drunkard, a friend of tax-gatherers and sinners!' Yet wisdom is justified/vindicated/shown to be right by her deeds."
In James 2:25, Rahab believed in the Lord with authentic faith (Joshua 2:9-13), requested "kindness" (2:12), received the promise of kindness (2:14), and hung out the "scarlet line" (2:21), as the demonstration of her faith. She showed that her faith in God was not a dead faith by her works, just as all genuine believers show theirs.
In James 2:26, the comparison of the human spirit and faith converges around their modes of operation. The spirit (Greek pneuma) may also be translated "breath." As a breathless body exhibits no indication of life, so fruitless faith exhibits no indication of life. The source of the life in faith is not works; rather, life in faith is the source of works (Ephesians 2:5-10).
Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption "alone" and not based on the merits of our works. It is through faith "in Christ alone" (and not based on the merits of our works) that we are justified based on Christ (Romans 3:24; 5:1; 5:9); yet the faith that justifies is never alone (unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine (James 2:14-26). *Perfect Harmony*
Tell me what I believe, Tell me why I believe it, then refute me based on the fiction you write.
Seems to be a lot of that around here.
So you wouldn't care if a child grew up to be the next George Sodini by overhearing you about how you believe king David was saved WHILE he committed his sins of adultery and murder?
King David went to Hell? I didn't know that.
King David went to Hell? I didn't know that.
Well, I am actually being kind in that I supporting the view that you are for holy living as a part of being an OSAS proponent and you are not the type of OSAS proponent who believes they can live like the devil and still be saved all because they have a belief alone on Jesus. So I am giving you the benefit of the doubt that your version of OSAS is better than the worst version of OSAS. So then what do you mean by your following words?
Do you get it? Jesus is the One who makes you faultless.
It`s not something you did yourself.” ~ Quote by: RickReads.
Are you saying that Jesus imputes His righteousness to you despite how you live or what you do? Is that what you mean? If not, then please explain it to me and tell me how this is not a license to turn God's grace into a license for immorality that Jude 1:4 warns us against.
I`m no more OSAS then I am a Calvin. I couldn`t tell you what those two words mean with absolute certainty. It`s only natural that I will take exception when somebody criticizes me for things I don`t believe in and in some cases never even heard of.
Your "quote by RickReads" is Jude 24, I believe it because my Bible says it.
My beliefs are based on the Gospel of Paul. Nothing else.
Paul taught salvation by the election, It`s a one time salvation that is permanent
Paul taught all scripture is profitable, hence the Jude quote.
Pauls answer to people who accuse him of of teaching to sin was to say he establishes the law Rom 3:31.
If you want to fight my belief system instead of fabricating fiction about me then you have to start fighting the doctrines of Paul.
I only used the term OSAS for purposes of participating in this discussion. It`s not a good manmade term but it`s not as bad as others.
Your "quote by RickReads" is Jude 24, I believe it because my Bible says it.
Your "quote by RickReads" is Jude 24, I believe it because my Bible says it.
Side Note:
If you believe chastisement is an effective deterrent to get the believer to stop justifying a lifestyle of mortal sin that the Bible condemns, I do not believe this truly will deter every believer or even work at all. For even unbelievers in life go through the same life challenges that a believer can go through. In other words, if they believe they can sin and still get to Heaven (despite their sin), then that is exactly what they are going to do. Bad circumstances in life can be just ruled out of their thinking and they may not even read it as chastisement. But even if they thought it was chastisement, they still got their golden ticket, so why change? They really have nothing to lose but some rewards that they do not even know about. They can have their best life now and also live it up in the kingdom when they die.
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