Waldensian History

[Deade]

I was studying Waldensian history and came across some Youtube videos that have a lot on that. It is called the Lineage Series and it starts as far back as when Constantine took over Christianity in the Fourth Century. Starting Episode 6 is the Waldensians. You can just scroll through the Episodes. Enjoy.

Lineage Series

 

[Not David]

Can we stop with the "Constantine corrupted Christianity" meme? Plus the narrator forgets the Eastern Orthodox, Non-Chalcedonians and the Assyrians who were not under the Pope.

 

[Pioneer3mm]

Waldesians are considered as early 'forerunners of Reformation'.. by some protestants.

I like episode 7.
Waldenses: A Mission Movement

 

[Tom8907]

Thankyou, always appreciate a link for a highly specialised area of church history.

 

[prodromos]

Can we stop with the "Constantine corrupted Christianity" meme? Plus the narrator forgets the Eastern Orthodox, Non-Chalcedonians and the Assyrians who were not under the Pope.

Or the Armenians who were the first nation to become Christian, or the Mar Thoma Indians who were way beyond the reach of the Roman Empire.

 

[Deade]

Or the Armenians who were the first nation to become Christian, or the Mar Thoma Indians who were way beyond the reach of the Roman Empire.

Read my second book for Christian history. The Mar Thoma are named after Marthoma Nazranees and they are considered reformed Anglicans. Anyway, both groups Armenians/Mar Thoma participated in the Council of Nicea in 325 AD. That is where all the errors started.

 

[Not David]

Read my second book for Christian history. The Mar Thoma are named after Marthoma Nazranees and they are considered reformed Anglicans. Anyway, both groups Armenians/Mar Thoma participated in the Council of Nicea in 325 AD. That is where all the errors started.

So a Council dealing with non-Trinitarianism started all errors?

 

[prodromos]

So a Council dealing with non-Trinitarianism started all errors?

I interpreted the smiley at the end as defining the preceding text as a joke. I couldn't really see how the church established by the Apostle Thomas could be defined as reformed Anglicans since the Anglicans would not exist for a number of centuries until Henry VIII.

 

[Not David]

I interpreted the smiley at the end as defining the preceding text as a joke. I couldn't really see how the church established by the Apostle Thomas could be defined as reformed Anglicans since the Anglicans would not exist for a number of centuries until Henry VIII.

Except he is the same guy sharing the pseudohistorical video on the first place.

 

[Deade]

So a Council dealing with non-Trinitarianism started all errors?

 

[prodromos]

View attachment 271532

Then you are speaking nonsense

 

[Concord1968]

View attachment 271532

So, perhaps you could enlighten us all as to what "errors" the council of Nicea taught? Examples please, and not just adverts for your books.

 

[Deade]

So, perhaps you could enlighten us all as to what "errors" the council of Nicea taught? Examples please, and not just adverts for your books.

Here are a couple of paragraphs from my second book:

In 312, Constantine defeated and killed his rival Maxentius, son of Maximian, and he became emperor of the west. He, like his father, favored Christianity. Constantine had a vision of a burning cross right before his battle with Maxentius. Above the cross were the words En Hoc Signo Vinces, which means “In this sign conquer.” He therefore fought the battle in the name of the Christian God. His victory caused him to convert to Christianity. In 313, Constantine issued the Edict of Milan, giving Christians the right to practice their religion. He urges his followers to become Christians, like him. In 321, Constantine issued an edict forbidding work on Sunday. In 323, he defeated the eastern emperor; and became the sole emperor of the east and west.

In 324, he established Christianity as the state religion. Finally, all of Rome accepted Christianity as their state religion. But at this time, there were many different doctrines among Christians. So Constantine called upon a conclave of bishops from all over Rome, to settle these differences. This happened at the Council of Nicea in 325, which was convened to solve two main differences: The first was the divinity of Christ. Arius, a priest of Alexandria, was teaching that Christ was created and not eternal and divine like the Father. The Council denied him and his doctrines; and condemned his followers, the Arian teachers, although this Arian wing continued strong in some areas. When the Germanic and Gothic invaders were converted to Christianity, it was usually to the Arian form. The other major difference, facing the Council was the date on which to celebrate Passover. At this time, in Asia Minor, many Christians still commemorated Jesus’ death on the day the Jewish Passover lambs were slain. But Rome and the Western churches chose to honor the resurrection instead. They celebrated the Passover always on a Sunday. The Council ruled in favor of the west and Rome. It ruled that the Passover, commemorating the death of Jesus, no longer be kept—anyone keeping the old way would be put to death. This new Passover was celebrated on the first Sunday after the full moon following the vernal equinox. It was later called “Easter” by the Germanic Christian converts. But was this so called “Christianity” the real deal; or was it a false, counterfeit version? The first thing Constantine did was to substitute Sunday for the sabbath, instead of the seventh day that should have been. He did this in hopes of attracting the sun worshipers of his day. Remember how I pointed out in chapter three that the seventh-day sabbath was a “sign” commandment? This true sabbath pointed to God’s true covenant people. The Roman Catholic Church grew out of this “hijacking” of Christianity by Constantine. I might note here: as a result of this hijacking—and his Sunday sabbath—the later Council of Laodicea (AD 365) outlawed the true seventh-day sabbath (sunset Friday to sunset Saturday).

 

[prodromos]

In 324, he established Christianity as the state religion. Finally, all of Rome accepted Christianity as their state religion.

This is completely untrue.
It was not until 2 centuries later under emperor Justinian I.

 

[prodromos]

The first thing Constantine did was to substitute Sunday for the sabbath, instead of the seventh day that should have been. He did this in hopes of attracting the sun worshipers of his day.

He did it to honor the Christians and there is zero evidence he did it to attract sun worshippers. No documents describing such a motive exist anywhere. It is a complete fabrication.

170 years before the Council of Nicaea, the Christian apologist, St Justin Martyr stated the following describing Christian worship:

But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ our Saviour on the same day rose from the dead. For He was crucified on the day before that of Saturn (Saturday); and on the day after that of Saturn, which is the day of the Sun, having appeared to His apostles and disciples, He taught them these things, which we have submitted to you also for your consideration.​

Remember how I pointed out in chapter three that the seventh-day sabbath was a “sign” commandment? This true sabbath pointed to God’s true covenant people.

If that was the case, why did the Apostles not tell the Gentiles after the Council in Jerusalem? The letter they sent only gave the following instructions found in Acts 15:

We have therefore sent Judas and Silas, who themselves will tell you the same things by word of mouth. For it has seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things: that you abstain from what has been sacrificed to idols and from blood and from what is strangled and from unchastity. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well. Farewell.”​

No mention of keeping the Sabbath.

 

[Concord1968]

Here are a couple of paragraphs from my second book:

In 312, Constantine defeated and killed his rival Maxentius, son of Maximian, and he became emperor of the west. He, like his father, favored Christianity. Constantine had a vision of a burning cross right before his battle with Maxentius. Above the cross were the words En Hoc Signo Vinces, which means “In this sign conquer.” He therefore fought the battle in the name of the Christian God. His victory caused him to convert to Christianity. In 313, Constantine issued the Edict of Milan, giving Christians the right to practice their religion. He urges his followers to become Christians, like him. In 321, Constantine issued an edict forbidding work on Sunday. In 323, he defeated the eastern emperor; and became the sole emperor of the east and west.

In 324, he established Christianity as the state religion. Finally, all of Rome accepted Christianity as their state religion. But at this time, there were many different doctrines among Christians. So Constantine called upon a conclave of bishops from all over Rome, to settle these differences. This happened at the Council of Nicea in 325, which was convened to solve two main differences: The first was the divinity of Christ. Arius, a priest of Alexandria, was teaching that Christ was created and not eternal and divine like the Father. The Council denied him and his doctrines; and condemned his followers, the Arian teachers, although this Arian wing continued strong in some areas. When the Germanic and Gothic invaders were converted to Christianity, it was usually to the Arian form. The other major difference, facing the Council was the date on which to celebrate Passover. At this time, in Asia Minor, many Christians still commemorated Jesus’ death on the day the Jewish Passover lambs were slain. But Rome and the Western churches chose to honor the resurrection instead. They celebrated the Passover always on a Sunday. The Council ruled in favor of the west and Rome. It ruled that the Passover, commemorating the death of Jesus, no longer be kept—anyone keeping the old way would be put to death. This new Passover was celebrated on the first Sunday after the full moon following the vernal equinox. It was later called “Easter” by the Germanic Christian converts. But was this so called “Christianity” the real deal; or was it a false, counterfeit version? The first thing Constantine did was to substitute Sunday for the sabbath, instead of the seventh day that should have been. He did this in hopes of attracting the sun worshipers of his day. Remember how I pointed out in chapter three that the seventh-day sabbath was a “sign” commandment? This true sabbath pointed to God’s true covenant people. The Roman Catholic Church grew out of this “hijacking” of Christianity by Constantine. I might note here: as a result of this hijacking—and his Sunday sabbath—the later Council of Laodicea (AD 365) outlawed the true seventh-day sabbath (sunset Friday to sunset Saturday).

So, in other words, you're adverting your book. Try again please.

 

[Deade]

He did it to honor the Christians and there is zero evidence he did it to attract sun worshippers. No documents describing such a motive exist anywhere. It is a complete fabrication.

170 years before the Council of Nicaea, the Christian apologist, St Justin Martyr stated the following describing Christian worship:

But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ our Saviour on the same day rose from the dead. For He was crucified on the day before that of Saturn (Saturday); and on the day after that of Saturn, which is the day of the Sun, having appeared to His apostles and disciples, He taught them these things, which we have submitted to you also for your consideration.​

​

Did I say Constantine was the first to pervert Christianity?

If that was the case, why did the Apostles not tell the Gentiles after the Council in Jerusalem? The letter they sent only gave the following instructions found in Acts 15:

We have therefore sent Judas and Silas, who themselves will tell you the same things by word of mouth. For it has seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things: that you abstain from what has been sacrificed to idols and from blood and from what is strangled and from unchastity. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well. Farewell.”​

No mention of keeping the Sabbath.

Content, always use what was being spoken of when using scripture:

Acts 15:1,2 "And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved. When therefore Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and disputation with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas, and certain other of them, should go up to Jerusalem unto the apostles and elders about this question."

The subject was circumcision only.

 

[prodromos]

Did I say Constantine was the first to pervert Christianity?

Regarding Sunday worship, you certainly didn't suggest anything else.
Scripture clearly shows the first to try and pervert Christianity were the Judaiisers

Content, always use what was being spoken of when using scripture:

Acts 15:1,2 "And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved. When therefore Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and disputation with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas, and certain other of them, should go up to Jerusalem unto the apostles and elders about this question."

The subject was circumcision only.

History shows they were also trying to force the Sabbath.

 

[Deade]

Regarding Sunday worship, you certainly didn't suggest anything else.
Scripture clearly shows the first to try and pervert Christianity were the Judaiisers

History shows they were also trying to force the Sabbath.

Who's history.

 

[prodromos]

The subject was circumcision only.

Circumcision wasn't even mentioned in the letter they sent.

Who's history.

Oh, you know, primary sources, actual statements made by historical figures rather than stuff you made up. The testimony of Christians who were martyred for their faith just like the Apostles.