VP Debate and gay rights/marriage

[catlover]

Incredibly odd how yall are so quick to speak of violence, but are okay with mothers murdering their unborn.

The last thing a neocon cares about is a life...

 

[marksman007]

Here in Australia, we have just fought a running battle with the government to stop the legalised killing of babies. Thousands marched on the street and thousands wrote to MPs asking them not to legalise the killing of babies. Some MPs wrote to me and said that they had recieved thousands of letters from people who wanted to protect the life of the innocent baby.

In the newspapers, all the letters that wanted to make it legal to kill babies were from left wing pro-abortoinists and all the letters except one or two from people who wanted the life of the innocent baby protected came from average joe or those who believed in the sanctity of life and had made their views known previously.

All the articles in the newspapers that supported the legalised killing of babies were from know pro-abortionists or abortion clinic owners that believe that a baby has no right to live.

All the articles that were against the legalised killing of babies were from people who presented rational and truthful facts such as every abortion kills a baby, a fact that is on record and has been stated by abortion clinic owners. One American abortion clinic owner said that aborting babies gave him real pleasure. How sick is that?

If you want to find people in Australia that will defend the right of babies to live, you have to look no further than what I believe you call the neo cons. They are in the forefront of the battle to save babies lives.

If you want to find people that want the legal right to have babies killed, you have to look no further than the secular humanists and feminists who have made it quite clear that they believe a baby is a piece of trash that has no rights.

Of course the one person who is against the legalised killing of babies more than anyone else is God himself. He said in Proverbs 16:7 that he HATES the shedding of innocent blood. Therefore anyone who hates it as well has to assume that God is on their side.

 

[Crazy Liz]

Can we get back to the topic?

 

[Texas Lynn]

Incredibly odd how yall are so quick to speak of violence, but are okay with mothers murdering their unborn.

"Murder" only occurs when a person who has been born is killed. Abortion may be described in many ways but the slogan "abortion is murder" is hyperbole with no basis other than emotionalism. Anti-abortion laws, in contrast, harm women. The real basis of anti-abortion advocacy is to exercise power and control over women.

 

[Texas Lynn]

I have studied a book written by an American psychologist. He spent two years interviewing and observing 206 homosexuals. At the end of the book he presented his conclusions. His first was that not one of them was gay.

<cue music: The Twilight Zone Theme>

 

[Texas Lynn]

Which book is that???

No doubt it can be located in the fiction section.

 

[Zaac]

"Murder" only occurs when a person who has been born is killed. Abortion may be described in many ways but the slogan "abortion is murder" is hyperbole with no basis other than emotionalism. Anti-abortion laws, in contrast, harm women. The real basis of anti-abortion advocacy is to exercise power and control over women.

Sounds like that is just how you want it to be.

Again with the feminist arguments. You're worried about control over women but are okay with murdering babies.

 

[marksman007]

Abortion may be described in many ways but the slogan "abortion is murder" is hyperbole with no basis other than emotionalism.

Lets not muddy the water with the truth ladies. here is a sample for you....

Bernard Nathenson, who was the largest provider of abortion services until he converted to Christianity, said in a TV interview (which I watched) that every abortion kills a baby.

Carl Everett, an abortion clinic owner was asked if she considered that abortion was the killing of a baby. She replied that she knew that abortion killed babies.

Naomi Wolfe, a prominent feminist, admitted that the pro-life slogan that “every abortion stops a beating heart” was true.

Camille Paglia a lesbian feminist, university professor and pro-abortionist admits that abortion is murder.

How come the people who did the dastardly deed know the truth but you don't? Could it be that you don't want to know or that you prefer to believe the lies of Satan?

Anti-abortion laws, in contrast, harm women.

Again, you obviously don't know or don't want to know that abortion itself harms women, judging by the stories I have read or heard in meetings and on TV that post abortion syndrome is still affecting women 20 years later.

The real basis of anti-abortion advocacy is to exercise power and control over women.

Again your thinking is clouded by your ideological tyranny. Having studied the subject for at least 20 years, it is very obvious that sanctity of life advocacy is firmly grounded in the right of an innocent baby not to be killed.

The other thing that is obvious is that the people who are doing the most for women with an unwanted pregancy are the sanctity of life advocates as they do provide unbiased counselling and help that will make an abortion unecessary bearing in mind that most women are forced into an abortion by boyfriends, parents and abortion providers according to research.

The pro-death advocates do next to nothing if a women want to avoid an abortion. We sent six women who were not pregnant to an abortion clinic for counselling and advice. None were tested to see if they were pregnant, and every one was offered three alternatives. Abortion, abortion or abortion which is not surprising as all they are interested in is the money they make.

 

[marksman007]

"Murder" only occurs when a person who has been born is killed.

Can you tell me what you are doing about abortionists who deliver a live baby and then murder it by suffocation or strangulation? Have you made any effort to have these murderers brought to justice?

 

[catlover]

I would like to know how the so called moral majority so called "pro-life" feel when their tax dollars go to programs such as WIC, food stamps and state subsidized childcare...and medicaid-and their feelings about the war in Iraq...

 

[Zaac]

I would like to know how the so called moral majority so called "pro-life" feel when their tax dollars go to programs such as WIC, food stamps and state subsidized childcare...and medicaid-and their feelings about the war in Iraq...

I can't speak for everybody else. But I prefer that government keep its hand out of my pocket. If you look to God's Word, government has usurped the role of the Church in attempting to care for the poor and the needy.

Plus I am an advocate of people making their own decisions to help others instead of having government unilaterally take their money to do anything.

Government does nothing well when it steps outside of its Constitutional role.

 

[marksman007]

THE SIXTH MAN by Jess Stern. 12 weeks on the New York Times best seller list. P13. "Towards the end of my research I become painfully aware of one thing: I had yet to meet a truly happy homosexual."

I would like to know how the so called moral majority so called "pro-life" feel when their tax dollars go to programs such as WIC, food stamps and state subsidized childcare...and medicaid-and their feelings about the war in Iraq...

And I would like to know what your question has to do with abortion and homosexual rights? apart from being a red herring to prevent you having to answer the questions and face the facts that you have been presented with.

 

[catlover]

I can't speak for everybody else. But I prefer that government keep its hand out of my pocket. If you look to God's Word, government has usurped the role of the Church in attempting to care for the poor and the needy.

Plus I am an advocate of people making their own decisions to help others instead of having government unilaterally take their money to do anything.

Government does nothing well when it steps outside of its Constitutional role.

Unfortunately, the people in churches are too busy condemning others to help them. They would rather listen to Dr. Laura and tell people in crisis pregnancies they are cannot post that word here...so the government needs to step in so children don't suffer from preventable problems due to nutrition.

WIC is a very effective program and has sucessfully helped children in America not to suffer from preventable diseases.

http://www.prioritychildren.org/2005 Fact Sheets/2-14 WIC Program.pdf
http://www.earlychildhoodrc.org/events/presentations/devaney.pdf

 

[catlover]

THE SIXTH MAN by Jess Stern. 12 weeks on the New York Times best seller list. P13. "Towards the end of my research I become painfully aware of one thing: I had yet to meet a truly happy homosexual."



And I would like to know what your question has to do with abortion and homosexual rights? apart from being a red herring to prevent you having to answer the questions and face the facts that you have been presented with.

My question is valid and you are simply raving about murderers and heretics and not publishing and peer reviewed sources, so your "points" are pretty much emotional and meaningless...

 

[Zaac]

Unfortunately, the people in churches are too busy condemning others to help them. They would rather listen to Dr. Laura and tell people in crisis pregnancies they are cannot post that word here...so the government needs to step in so children don't suffer from preventable problems due to nutrition.

Why? That's outside the realm of what government was intended to do. Anytime there is a problem, lazy people look to government to forcefully take money to fix it. How about individuals start stepping up.

And how many churches do you know who wouldn't help feed a pregnant mother?

WIC is a very effective program and has sucessfully helped children in America not to suffer from preventable diseases.

It can be as effective as it likes. Government still wasn't intended to do this. There are plenty of churches out there with food banks who are doing the same thing. Likewise, there are lots of private individuals and 501- C3s who also do the same thing.

 

[marksman007]

My question is valid

I know you think it is valid but you still haven't explained why?

you are simply raving about murderers and heretics and not publishing and peer reviewed sources,

I have not done any raving about not publishing and peer review sources

so your "points" are pretty much emotional and meaningless...

As are yours.

 

[Texas Lynn]

Sounds like that is just how you want it to be.

Again with the feminist arguments. You're worried about control over women but are okay with murdering babies.

A fetus cannot be "murdered" as it has not been born. The assertion otherwise is maudlin appeal to emotion unsupportable by logic.

 

[Texas Lynn]

Lets not muddy the water with the truth ladies. here is a sample for you....

Bernard Nathenson, who was the largest provider of abortion services until he converted to Christianity, said in a TV interview (which I watched) that every abortion kills a baby.

Carl Everett, an abortion clinic owner was asked if she considered that abortion was the killing of a baby. She replied that she knew that abortion killed babies.

Naomi Wolfe, a prominent feminist, admitted that the pro-life slogan that “every abortion stops a beating heart” was true.

Camille Paglia a lesbian feminist, university professor and pro-abortionist admits that abortion is murder.

How come the people who did the dastardly deed know the truth but you don't? Could it be that you don't want to know or that you prefer to believe the lies of Satan?

These assertions are unsupported. Paglia's and Wolfe remain pro-choice and Nathanson changed to make money.

Again, you obviously don't know or don't want to know that abortion itself harms women, judging by the stories I have read or heard in meetings and on TV that post abortion syndrome is still affecting women 20 years later.

The harm is from the judgmental attitude of the anti-abortion people, not from abortion.

Again your thinking is clouded by your ideological tyranny. Having studied the subject for at least 20 years, it is very obvious that sanctity of life advocacy is firmly grounded in the right of an innocent baby not to be killed.

No such right exists in jurisprudence.

The other thing that is obvious is that the people who are doing the most for women with an unwanted pregancy are the sanctity of life advocates as they do provide unbiased counselling and help that will make an abortion unecessary bearing in mind that most women are forced into an abortion by boyfriends, parents and abortion providers according to research.

The pro-death advocates do next to nothing if a women want to avoid an abortion. We sent six women who were not pregnant to an abortion clinic for counselling and advice. None were tested to see if they were pregnant, and every one was offered three alternatives. Abortion, abortion or abortion which is not surprising as all they are interested in is the money they make.

The anti-abortion fake clinics use deception and distortion to exploit and harm women. In the U.S. several State Attorneys General successfully sued these groups to make them change their unethical business practices.

 

[OllieFranz]

I have studied a book written by an American psychologist. He spent two years interviewing and observing 206 homosexuals. At the end of the book he presented his conclusions. His first was that not one of them was gay.

Which book is that???

THE SIXTH MAN by Jess Stern. 12 weeks on the New York Times best seller list. P13. "Towards the end of my research I become painfully aware of one thing: I had yet to meet a truly happy homosexual."

The Sixth Man (1961) was a nonfiction bestseller by author Jess Stearn, a former Newsweek editor. According to John D'Emilio, a professor of history and former Director of the National Gay and Lesbian Task Force, the book "dripped with venom and contempt" toward gays and lesbians. It was promoted as a, "Startling Investigation of the Spread of Homosexuality in America!"
​

I think you need to re-read that conclusion. He did not conclude that he had not met any homosexuals; he concluded that he had not met any "truly happy" homosexuals. That is, every gay man he interviewed had problems. But that is to be expected. Happy people rarely, even today when there is a lot less stigma attached to the act, seek out professionals in the mental health field. And any closeted friends of his, knowing the direction his studies were going, would not have outted themselves to him.

Besides, is this really the person you want to trot out as an expert?

Stearn's best-known books include two biographies of the American psychic Edgar Cayce - Edgar Cayce: The Sleeping Prophet: The Life and Work of Edgar Cayce (1965) and A Prophet in His Own Country: The Story of the Young Edgar Cayce (1974). He began to believe in Cayce's theories whilst researching the former, and even spoke at conferences of the Association for Research and Enlightenment, a group founded by Cayce. He remained interested in spirituality and the occult for the remainder of his life - he refused to make any funeral arrangements as he believed he had lived previously and would live again.​

 

[marksman007]

These assertions are unsupported. Paglia's and Wolfe remain pro-choice and Nathanson changed to make money.

Of course they are unsupported. I should have realised that Nathenson had given up making millions out of performing abortions so that he could make billions out of telling people that he killed babies for a living. That being the case I expect all the other abortionists are going to give up killing babies if they can make more money out of telling people that they kill babies.

I don't know why I didn't understand that pro-abortionists are actually pro-life and when they said they were pro-abortion that what they actually meant was that they were pro-life.

The harm is from the judgmental attitude of the anti-abortion people, not from abortion.

I will respond to this one when you have got your head out of the sand.

No such right exists in jurisprudence.

Nonsensical rhetoric. My right to have compassion for the unborn baby has nothing to do with understanding the law which is what jurisprudence is.

The anti-abortion fake clinics use deception and distortion to exploit and harm women

As do the pro-abortion clinics as my example illustrates. I realise that you can't compute your little angels would be guilty of such a thing, but that's the facts even though you say its not because it does not aggree with your pro-death ideology.

Regarding the book title I gave you. It hasn't sunk in obviously that I ANSWERED YOUR QUESTION. All the psychobable about "peer review" is arrant nonsense to cover up your embarrasment of such infantile and childish comments like "located in the fiction section" and "cue music Twilight Zone Theme" which I have never heard and if you have I think I had better steer clear of it. After all, I don't want to be infected with a pro-death spirit otherwise I might lose interest in doing what is best for mother and child.