VP Debate and gay rights/marriage

OllieFranz

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**Re-reads the quotes he posted, and slowly and carefully removes the foot from his mouth**

I apologize for quoting a synopsis of Stern's book that was as dripping with venom as the reviewer accused Stern to be. It was the only synopsis I could find of the book, apparently because it was discredited early and has been out of print for so long.

Also, I see that Sterns was not researching and writing as a psychologist, but as an investigative reporter. In that respect, his subsequent "investigation" of Edgar Casey and other other paranormal subjects, and his conversion to their cause speaks not only about his character but about his skills in the area (investigative reporting) in which he was brought into this discussion as an "expert witness," so to speak.

Also, since the book was published in 1961, eight years before Stonewall, and researched for two years before that, the only "open" gays that Stern could have interviewed were men who had been convicted of sodomy or jailed in raids on gay nightclubs. Of course they were not happy.

From what little objective information as I have been able to learn about the book, it merely repeated standard stereotypes of the time as "shocking" new scientifically verified information. Very similar to the way certain German publications in the 1930's correlated physical characteristics (that happened to correspond to stereotypical physical descriptions of Jews and Gypsies) to criminal tendencies and/or insanity.
 
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OllieFranz

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Regarding the book title I gave you. It hasn't sunk in obviously that I ANSWERED YOUR QUESTION. All the psychobable about "peer review" is arrant nonsense to cover up your embarrasment of such infantile and childish comments like "located in the fiction section" and "cue music Twilight Zone Theme" which I have never heard and if you have I think I had better steer clear of it. After all, I don't want to be infected with a pro-death spirit otherwise I might lose interest in doing what is best for mother and child.

But the book is not about peer-reviewed scientific research. It is a sensational "exposé" supposedly based on investigative reporting. And it has long been discredited even at that.
 
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Crazy Liz

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A fetus cannot be "murdered" as it has not been born. The assertion otherwise is maudlin appeal to emotion unsupportable by logic.

You're not supporting your position by logic, either.

But abortion is not the topic of this thread. There is a whole nother forum for that. How about if we resist following the red herring in this thread?

red%20herring.jpg
 
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Texas Lynn

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The Sixth Man (1961) was a nonfiction bestseller by author Jess Stearn, a former Newsweek editor. According to John D'Emilio, a professor of history and former Director of the National Gay and Lesbian Task Force, the book "dripped with venom and contempt" toward gays and lesbians. It was promoted as a, "Startling Investigation of the Spread of Homosexuality in America!"
I think you need to re-read that conclusion. He did not conclude that he had not met any homosexuals; he concluded that he had not met any "truly happy" homosexuals. That is, every gay man he interviewed had problems. But that is to be expected. Happy people rarely, even today when there is a lot less stigma attached to the act, seek out professionals in the mental health field. And any closeted friends of his, knowing the direction his studies were going, would not have outted themselves to him.

Besides, is this really the person you want to trot out as an expert?
Stearn's best-known books include two biographies of the American psychic Edgar Cayce - Edgar Cayce: The Sleeping Prophet: The Life and Work of Edgar Cayce (1965) and A Prophet in His Own Country: The Story of the Young Edgar Cayce (1974). He began to believe in Cayce's theories whilst researching the former, and even spoke at conferences of the Association for Research and Enlightenment, a group founded by Cayce. He remained interested in spirituality and the occult for the remainder of his life - he refused to make any funeral arrangements as he believed he had lived previously and would live again.

Ollie, it appears you have outed a popular press "source" for the garbage that it is and for that you have eternal thanks.

Essentially the anti-LGBT argument boils down to "Whip 'em till they bleed and then fine 'em for bleeding!" which is the same argument in favor of all irrational prejudices.
 
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Texas Lynn

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**Re-reads the quotes he posted, and slowly and carefully removes the foot from his mouth**

I apologize for quoting a synopsis of Stern's book that was as dripping with venom as the reviewer accused Stern to be. It was the only synopsis I could find of the book, apparently because it was discredited early and has been out of print for so long.

Also, I see that Sterns was not researching and writing as a psychologist, but as an investigative reporter. In that respect, his subsequent "investigation" of Edgar Casey and other other paranormal subjects, and his conversion to their cause speaks not only about his character but about his skills in the area (investigative reporting) in which he was brought into this discussion as an "expert witness," so to speak.

Also, since the book was published in 1961, eight years before Stonewall, and researched for two years before that, the only "open" gays that Stern could have interviewed were men who had been convicted of sodomy or jailed in raids on gay nightclubs. Of course they were not happy.

From what little objective information as I have been able to learn about the book, it merely repeated standard stereotypes of the time as "shocking" new scientifically verified information. Very similar to the way certain German publications in the 1930's correlated physical characteristics (that happened to correspond to stereotypical physical descriptions of Jews and Gypsies) to criminal tendencies and/or insanity.

When 60 Minutes was new during the mid-1960s, Mike Wallace interviewed several gay men who all kept their faces covered. It was weird. The report was groundbreaking for that time. Prejudice was much more terrible than it is now. Wallace did not demonize gay males like the crackpot Stearn did but lacked information. So did everybody else. When people had to live in fear, why would they be "happy"?
 
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marksman007

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Without a peer reviewed source the book is merely an opinion and not a fact...
I selected this one quote to show that you are a prisoner of your own thinking. Unless anything conforms to A, B or C you can't compute it.

As a person who has been trained in personality profiling for business purposes, one can very easily see the obvious if you spend long enough with a person. Spending two years with them will reveal the bleeding obvious, unless you are too stupid to see it or don't want to. I don't need a peer review to know that Joe is melancholy if that is what he is.
 
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marksman007

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Having spent two years myself studying, interacting with and counselling 30 homosexuals who I met with at least twice a week, the predominant trait was that they weren't gay. Outwardly they portrayed a happy demeanour, but when they bared their hearts to me, they confessed to a melancholy disposition.

It was only when they realised that their homosexuality didn't have to be a life sentence that they began to embrace life and walk away from it.

Because your driven by ideology, not truth, I know you will find 101 reasons why I got it all wrong, but that doesn't worry me. What was important was giving hope to these young people and helping them to achieve their desired aim. To be normal.

I can't wait for your responses because I know what your first ten are going to be.

GOD HATES THE SHEDDING OF INNOCENT BLOOD!! Proverbs 6 v 17.
 
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Texas Lynn

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Having spent two years myself studying, interacting with and counselling 30 homosexuals who I met with at least twice a week, the predominant trait was that they weren't gay. Outwardly they portrayed a happy demeanour, but when they bared their hearts to me, they confessed to a melancholy disposition.

It was only when they realised that their homosexuality didn't have to be a life sentence that they began to embrace life and walk away from it.

Because your driven by ideology, not truth, I know you will find 101 reasons why I got it all wrong, but that doesn't worry me. What was important was giving hope to these young people and helping them to achieve their desired aim. To be normal.

I can't wait for your responses because I know what your first ten are going to be.

GOD HATES THE SHEDDING OF INNOCENT BLOOD!! Proverbs 6 v 17.

Normalcy is not a worthwhile goal.

I assume you do not have professional credentials to be engaged in this endeavour. In the U.S. fraudulent homo-no-more problems are being shut down and discredited due to their failure to provide professional services and adherence to forms of interpersonal interaction similar to Maoist thought reform. In the U.S. practicing therapy without a professional license is a crime. It is a matter of time before these fraudulent therapist are charged.
 
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marksman007

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In the U.S. fraudulent homo-no-more problems are being shut down and discredited due to their failure to provide professional services and adherence to forms of interpersonal interaction similar to Maoist thought reform.
Three of the first ten as anticipated

GOD HATES THE SHEDDING OF INNOCENT BLOOD!! Proverbs 6 v 17.
 
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marksman007

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In the U.S. practicing therapy without a professional license is a crime. It is a matter of time before these fraudulent therapist are charged.
Four of the first ten as anticipated.

GOD HATES THE SHEDDING OF INNOCENT BLOOD!! Proverbs 6 v 17.
 
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marksman007

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Thanks Zaac. I would love to put something in writing as there are some fabulous stories to tell, like guys 25 years old crying on my shoulder when the tension and pain drained out of them as they realised there was life after homosexuality.

I could write a book of stories but it would not amount to much as most of the guys just want to get on with their new lives and not be written about as their past is too painful. As we all know, a book like this would have the media vultures trying to tear it apart and unearthing the subjects and imposing themselves on their new lives and exposing their pasts. I love them too much for that to happen and I would not want to betray the trust they had in me.

GOD HATES THE SHEDDING OF INNOCENT BLOOD!! Proverbs 6 v 17.
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KCKID

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Thanks Zaac. I would love to put something in writing as there are some fabulous stories to tell, like guys 25 years old crying on my shoulder when the tension and pain drained out of them as they realised there was life after homosexuality.

What, precisely, were these guys allegedly 'pained' and 'tensed' about, marksman? Were they 'pained' and 'tense' before you took them under your wing? I see that you're a charismatic. Emotional and highly charged ecstatic behavior is a rather typical by-product of those of the Charismatic Movement, is is not? Many people are gullible, sad to say, especially when they are burdened by some guilt trip that is oftentimes put on to them by someone else. I'm sceptical by those of the CM at the best of times and, in THIS particular case, I'm ULTRA sceptical about what you have to say.

I could write a book of stories but it would not amount to much as most of the guys just want to get on with their new lives and not be written about as their past is too painful. As we all know, a book like this would have the media vultures trying to tear it apart and unearthing the subjects and imposing themselves on their new lives and exposing their pasts. I love them too much for that to happen and I would not want to betray the trust they had in me.

Fascinating but puzzling. Who ARE you ...?
 
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Texas Lynn

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KC Kid, anyone can make grandiose claims. Anyone who claims to have changed a person's sexual orientation merely engaged in a form of Maoist Thought Reform.

For a humerous look at the fraudulent Homo-No-More movement, see Jamie Babbit's movie But I'm A Cheerleader. As a bonus they feature a goateed RuPaul as the boys' counselor.:D
 
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marksman007

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I see that you're a charismatic. Emotional and highly charged ecstatic behavior is a rather typical by-product of those of the Charismatic Movement, is is not?
Not that I have noticed

GOD HATES THE SHEDDING OF INNOCENT BLOOD!! Proverbs 6 v 17.
 
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