Voting by Mail?

[Vylo]

I think a professional can easily fake a mail ballot.
Maybe someone can come up with a way to fix that but today, I'm not sure its fixed yet.
.
.
How would you fix it? Blockchain NFTs?
They have a heck of a password system.

OK, you fake a ballot somehow. It has to have a name attached to it. So if that person voted, the system is going to catch a double vote and invalidate the ballots, and they have video of each ballot being dropped off and a date received. You would be taking a massive risk for each of these ballots being cast, and any where the real person actually voted, which if randomly selected is over 60% of cases, it won't even count and alert authorities. So unless you are doing this at a very busy ballot box in an area with low turnout and perfectly conceal your identity, you are going to jail for a very long time in an attempt to swing an election by just a single ballot. If you try to do it in mass, it will definitely be caught, your likelihood of being caught approaches 100% pretty fast, and you still did nothing meaningful to sway the election in question.

Trying to change an election results by faking ballots is not effective, and carries insane risk.

 

[Ponderous Curmudgeon]

OK, you fake a ballot somehow. It has to have a name attached to it. So if that person voted, the system is going to catch a double vote and invalidate the ballots, and they have video of each ballot being dropped off and a date received. You would be taking a massive risk for each of these ballots being cast, and any where the real person actually voted, which if randomly selected is over 60% of cases, it won't even count and alert authorities. So unless you are doing this at a very busy ballot box in an area with low turnout and perfectly conceal your identity, you are going to jail for a very long time in an attempt to swing an election by just a single ballot. If you try to do it in mass, it will definitely be caught, your likelihood of being caught approaches 100% pretty fast, and you still did nothing meaningful to sway the election in question.

Trying to change an election results by faking ballots is not effective, and carries insane risk.

That is ultimately the point, there are lots of things you might do, but executing any of them to sufficient scale to make a difference has already been thought of and the system developed over years has made them not cost effective at scale. Yes you can copy a ballot, but then you have to do all the work to hack the database to make that ballot acceptable.

 

[pgp_protector]

What do you think about voting by mail?

Been doing it for about 2 decades without issue.

 

[Albion]

Been doing it for about 2 decades without issue.

True, but that was before the 2020 elections.

There were wholesale changes made in advance of the 2020 elections, and they were allegedly made necessary because of the coronavirus outbreak.

The question that really should be asked is "What is the sense in Pelosi's demand that federal legislation be enacted to make those emergency measures permanent and obligatory for all 50 states?"

She would not be proposing such legislation if she did not believe that the policies currently in effect, with all their vulnerability to fraud, did not work to the advantage of her political party.

 

[Subduction Zone]

True, but that was before the wholesale changes in the procedures that were allegedly necessitated by the coronavirus outbreak in 2020.

The question that really should be asked is "What is the sense in Pelosi's demand that federal legislation be enacted to make those emergency measures permanent and obligatory for all 50 states?"

She would not be proposing such legislation if she did not believe that the policies currently in effect, with all their vulnerability to fraud, did not work to the advantage of her political party.

There is no evidence that I am aware of that shows that these supposed "wholesale changes" lowered the security of the system at all. Vote by mail is safe and secure and it gets more people to vote. So why oppose it? Perhaps it is because the conservatives believe that the "wrong people" will vote.

 

[Ponderous Curmudgeon]

True, but that was before the 2020 elections.

There were wholesale changes made in advance of the 2020 elections, and they were allegedly made necessary because of the coronavirus outbreak.

The question that really should be asked is "What is the sense in Pelosi's demand that federal legislation be enacted to make those emergency measures permanent and obligatory for all 50 states?"

She would not be proposing such legislation if she did not believe that the policies currently in effect, with all their vulnerability to fraud, did not work to the advantage of her political party.

Again, the question, yes there were changes, but can you actually provide any evidence that they had any consequences. Without that evidence, your claim that Pelosi is doing it for nefarious reasons is unwarranted.
I look forward to your evidence, not just another claim.
And about that claim of major fraud, I'm still waiting for your evidential links.

 

[Brihaha]

True, but that was before the 2020

Right, it was before Americans thought it wise to elect a self-serving snake oil salesman who spent four years undermining our democracy and faith in elections because he never possessed the humility and prudence to be fit for the job to begin with. Who knew a sore loser could exacerbate Americans' divisions so much? The majority of American voters understood! Both elections involving trump!

 

[Tiberius Lee]

I'll stop there. Posting something like "Apart from your 'opinion'"...your “opinion” is absolutely useless in this case" isn't discussion.

I was polite when I used the word “opinion”. So let me say exactly how I think – I can’t discuss with “imaginary story” about wide spread voter fraud in 2020.

 

[Vylo]

That is ultimately the point, there are lots of things you might do, but executing any of them to sufficient scale to make a difference has already been thought of and the system developed over years has made them not cost effective at scale. Yes you can copy a ballot, but then you have to do all the work to hack the database to make that ballot acceptable.

And this is not by accident. The way they make the cost vs benefit of trying to fudge the voting system is designed to deter folks. You are better off trying to gerrymander and suppress, which is what the right has done.

 

[KCfromNC]

The impression I get is that Democratic candidate supporters do not want any safeguards when it comes to mail in voting.

That seems to run counter to the actual claims made by "Democratic candidate supporters". Makes me wonder what else is similarly misrepresented in this and related posts.

 

[ArmenianJohn]

The impression I get is that Democratic candidate supporters do not want any safeguards when it comes to mail in voting. They want mass mailing of ballots and no identification, checking of signatures or controls of any kind.

Why is that?

You have to go and register to vote - why not just send a copy of your voter registration card with the mail in ballot that you request.

Requesting ballots has the potential of saving money on printing and postage as well as controlling the flow. It is no more inconvenient, racist (whatever complaint your want), anti Democratic than the process to register to vote. In fact it would be quicker and easier. You can make the request sitting at home in just a couple minutes and then receive the ballots in the mail - bingo - you are done. It would also severely limit the accusations of fraud.

Kills two birds with one stone - so why not do it?

I don't know where you get that impression. I actually get the impression that Republicans do not want any safeguards when it comes to mail in voting. Republicans have been caught voting more than once in Florida.

 

[TLK Valentine]

That is ultimately the point, there are lots of things you might do, but executing any of them to sufficient scale to make a difference has already been thought of and the system developed over years has made them not cost effective at scale.

And yet we're expected to believe that President Biden pulled this off in 2020 so perfectly so as not to leave so much as a trace of evidence.

 

[Always in His Presence]

I don't know where you get that impression. I actually get the impression that Republicans do not want any safeguards when it comes to mail in voting. Republicans have been caught voting more than once in Florida.

I get that impression because it is Democrats and Democrat leaning posters on this thread who come up with reasons why we shouldn't control it more. Like having to request a ballot. Whereas it it Republican and Republican leaning poster who are calling for more control.

Thanks for asking

 

[ArmenianJohn]

I get that impression because it is Democrats and Democrat leaning posters on this thread who come up with reasons why we shouldn't control it more. Like having to request a ballot. Whereas it it Republican and Republican leaning poster who are calling for more control.

Thanks for asking

So you get the impression that "Democratic candidate supporters do not want any safeguards when it comes to mail in voting" and that "[t]hey want mass mailing of ballots and no identification, checking of signatures or controls of any kind"..."because it is Democrats and Democrat leaning posters on this thread who come up with reasons why we shouldn't control it more"???

Do you understand the difference between not controlling it more and having no safeguards or controls of any kind??? It appears that you don't.

Also, how do you plan to pay for the "more controls"? Socialism, forcing taxpayers to pay more out of their pockets? You're very free spending with other people's money. Do you consider that theft for the government to hold a gun to people's heads and demand more payment to spend it more? What about the deficit?

 

[Always in His Presence]

So you get the impression that "Democratic candidate supporters do not want any safeguards when it comes to mail in voting" and that "[t]hey want mass mailing of ballots and no identification, checking of signatures or controls of any kind"..."because it is Democrats and Democrat leaning posters on this thread who come up with reasons why we shouldn't control it more"???

You are describing not wanting to controlling it more.

 

[ArmenianJohn]

You are describing not wanting to controlling it more.

I didn't describe anything - those are your words. You say that Democratic Candidate supporters want no controls then later you say they don't want more controls. Which is it?

You can't even get your own story straight. You can't even recognize your own words when they're quoted.

 

[Always in His Presence]

I didn't describe anything - those are your words. You say that Democratic Candidate supporters want no controls then later you say they don't want more controls. Which is it?

You can't even get your own story straight. You can't even recognize your own words when they're quoted.

Would you support having a process, like I have described for vote in mailing? If not, why not?

 

[ArmenianJohn]

Would you support having a process, like I have described for vote in mailing?

LOL, No way!

If not, why not?

If you proposed it I wouldn't trust it at all. You never are able to explain yourself and you have yet to explain what you've proposed. I already asked how you planned to pay for it and you ignore it. You make a proposal and then you just expect everyone to accept it and you ignore any and all questions about it.

 

[Hans Blaster]

The impression I get is that Democratic candidate supporters do not want any safeguards when it comes to mail in voting. They want mass mailing of ballots and no identification, checking of signatures or controls of any kind.

Why is that?

You have to go and register to vote - why not just send a copy of your voter registration card with the mail in ballot that you request.

Requesting ballots has the potential of saving money on printing and postage as well as controlling the flow. It is no more inconvenient, racist (whatever complaint your want), anti Democratic than the process to register to vote. In fact it would be quicker and easier. You can make the request sitting at home in just a couple minutes and then receive the ballots in the mail - bingo - you are done. It would also severely limit the accusations of fraud.

Kills two birds with one stone - so why not do it?

I remain baffled by the notion that the ease of voting is some how a partisan issue. Story time...

When I was 18 on Election Day, I left my dorm room and went 'round the corner where I got in line to register to vote with the documentation that showed I was eligible to vote in that precinct. After I registered, I then got in line to vote and when I had my chance voted for a Republican incumbent in the top position on my ballot.

I was later baffled to know that there were places that required a time-delay between registration and voting. (And frankly, still am.)

As to voter registration cards, I have registered to vote in 4 jurisdictions and only the last one ever provided me with a card. Being unfamiliar with the mechanics of voter registration cards, I brought it with me the first time I voted here only to discover it wasn't needed. It remains to this day tacked to my bulletin board with in arm's reach of the chair I am sitting in where it has remained ever since I got back from that vote. [Because of the unnecessary delays caused by residency requirements and pre-registration I was unable to vote against a local tax increase in an election that took place one month after I bought this house and about 2 weeks after I moved all of my household goods.]

If Democrats and their voters are perceived as being for less restrictive voting rules, perhaps it is because it is Republicans that have tried to make it more difficult to vote (or resisted efforts to make it easier) because they perceive that those most inconvenienced will likely vote against them.

 

[Hans Blaster]

There was a horrific lack of chain of custody and identification in regard to mail-in ballots.

Did you know that tampering with the US Mail is a Federal offense?