Voting by Mail?

[Sparagmos]

I hear folks claim more cheating occurs with mail in ballots. Is this documented in your particular state or is the claim without merit?

Good question! I’ve always heard that voter fraud was very low in Oregon but I went looking for data. The Heritage Foundation (decidedly conservative) has done an in-depth study where you can look at each case state-by state. Here is a link to that:

Voter Fraud Map: Election Fraud Database | The Heritage Foundation

In Oregon, we’ve had 15 cases since 2001.

Then here is a summary of the information there looking at just states that vote by mail. It shows really low rates of fraud.
Low rates of fraud in vote-by-mail states show the benefits outweigh the risks

 

[FireDragon76]

Everybody needs a photocopier at home. many people do not have state issued IDs or even copies of social security cards which are not adequate for voter registration etc.

Requiring an ID that costs money to procure is considered a violation of the 24th amendment or at least it has been so held since its ratification in 1964.
Twenty-fourth Amendment to the United States Constitution - Wikipedia

All the expenses associated with procuring an ID, for many poor people, amount to a poll tax.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I too am a disabled American and feel that sending ballots out to everyone by mail is not good. It is open to fraud. Now, are there safe ways of doing it sure, but not the way it was done last election.

There does not seem to be any fraud in my state and everyone gets sent a ballot. When you think that there would be fraud you have to ask yourself how people would cheat the system. It is not that easy. When our ballots are sent out they are sent out en masse. Everyone knows within a day or two when they should get their ballot in the mail. Remember, if a scheme is discovered it will not work. If too many people were missing ballots it would immediately set off alarms. And getting them after the person filled them out and mailed them is even more problematical. Some simply do it from home. But a stranger going house to house picking up ballots would be noticed. Some mail them from all sorts of locations. How are you going to steal those? And some are in very secure drop boxes.

You are falling from lies from Republicans that look like they merely want to keep certain people from voting. Suppressing the vote can be much more effective than stealing ballots.

 

[perplexed]

I wish I had a time machine, I could go back to 2016 and claim that maybe Hillary actually won because mail in voting is not secure

 

[.Mikha'el.]

As one who has put things in the mail and had them get lost, I personally won't do it, especially with something as important as an electoral ballot.

 

[Subduction Zone]

As one who has put things in the mail and had them get lost, I personally won't do it, especially with something as important as an electoral ballot.

You would not have to mail your ballot back. As part of the system there are ballot drop off boxes. They are going to be as secure there as they would be at your local voting site.

 

[Valletta]

What do you think about voting by mail?

The problem is that studies, like the one President Carter was involved in, show that voting by mail makes it easier to cheat. This is why it is recommended to have it only when a person has a legitimate reason--such as traveling outside your voting area or being incapacitated. A lot of people received multiple ballots in the mail, that needs to stop. If you do allow it then there needs to be a concentration on identification.

 

[Valletta]

You would not have to mail your ballot back. As part of the system there are ballot drop off boxes. They are going to be as secure there as they would be at your local voting site.

And you know this how? Can you see into the future?

 

[Valletta]

Good question! I’ve always heard that voter fraud was very low in Oregon but I went looking for data. The Heritage Foundation (decidedly conservative) has done an in-depth study where you can look at each case state-by state. Here is a link to that:

Voter Fraud Map: Election Fraud Database | The Heritage Foundation

In Oregon, we’ve had 15 cases since 2001.

Then here is a summary of the information there looking at just states that vote by mail. It shows really low rates of fraud.
Low rates of fraud in vote-by-mail states show the benefits outweigh the risks

Perhaps fraud convictions are low, much like low rates of convictions for stealing in New York City. That doesn't mean that thefts are rare in NYC. Remember that there has only been one full forensic audit in one county within the whole United States out of thousands of counties. That audit showed a lot of improper votes.

 

[Subduction Zone]

And you know this how? Can you see into the future?

No need. I can see into the past.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Perhaps fraud convictions are low, much like low rates of convictions for stealing in New York City. That doesn't mean that thefts are rare in NYC. Remember that there has only been one full forensic audit in one county within the whole United States out of thousands of counties. That audit showed a lot of improper votes.

Really? I see a lot of claims. But people on your side do not seem to understand what valid evidence is. You first need to find a reliable source. If this was true you should be able to find plenty of them.

EDIT: Wait a second. Are you talking about the Maricopa county audit that found nothing? There were early claims that were later refuted. Once again, you need to find reliable sources.

 

[Vylo]

And you know this how? Can you see into the future?

I mean, we've literally been doing this. This isn't new. There are ballot boxes in every town in my state.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I mean, we've literally been doing this. This isn't new. There are ballot boxes in every town in my state.

Yep. There is one only two miles from my house. I have used it quite a few times. It has been there ever since my state switched to vote by mail.

 

[Valletta]

I mean, we've literally been doing this. This isn't new. There are ballot boxes in every town in my state.

Was there always someone there making sure it wasn't tampered with and checking voter ID?

 

[Subduction Zone]

I am feeling generous.

Was there always someone there making sure it wasn't tampered with and checking voter ID?

Okay. You do not appear to have any idea what you are talking about.

In vote by mail one has to use a proper ID when one registers. After that there is no need of an ID.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I am feeling a bit generous right now. I know that we will have claims, but that there will be no support since there is no support for their beliefs:

Maricopa County: Cyber Ninjas made nearly 80 false claims in election audit

" Maricopa County issued a scathing rebuke Wednesday of the highly controversial and partisan audit of the 2020 election directed by leaders of Republican-controlled Senate.

The county's 93-page review found that the final report issued by the Senate's contractors in late September was littered with false and inaccurate statements about the election that former President Donald Trump continues to falsely claim that he won.

"(W)e determined that nearly every finding included faulty analysis, inaccurate claims, misleading conclusions, and a lack of understanding of federal and state election laws," the county report said.


In total, the county found that the contractors working for the GOP-led Senate - Cyber Ninjas, CYFIR, EchoMail, and Senate liaisons - made nearly 80 false claims in its report last fall."


Since then the Ninjas were ordered to turn over evidence, which they did not and they are now bankrupt, if I understand something that I saw earlier today correctly.

 

[Vylo]

Was there always someone there making sure it wasn't tampered with and checking voter ID?

Yes, they are at police stations with cameras and police there 24/7. Voter ID isn't needed, you only get one ballot, and are only allowed to send one in. If there is an issue you must cancel the previous ballot before attempting to send a new one.

 

[Hank77]

In total, the county found that the contractors working for the GOP-led Senate - Cyber Ninjas, CYFIR, EchoMail, and Senate liaisons - made nearly 80 false claims in its report last fall."


Since then the Ninjas were ordered to turn over evidence, which they did not and they are now bankrupt, if I understand something that I saw earlier today correctly.

Yup, big smile. I hadn't heard about this, serves them right.

Cyber Ninjas has been in Maricopa Superior Court over the release of records to the Arizona Republic regarding the audit. On August 24, Maricopa Superior Court Judge John Hannah ordered the release of documents and communications by Cyber Ninjas to the Arizona Republic.

The firm has fought against the release of documents and repeated calls by Phoenix Newspapers Inc., the parent company of the Arizona Republic, that Cyber Ninjas be found in contempt of court.

Cyber Ninjas, firm that led GOP review of Arizona's 2020 election results, shuts down

Cyber Ninjas, a firm hired by the Arizona state Senate to conduct a review of Maricopa County’s election results, on Thursday announced that it is shutting down after a county government report slammed the firm and a judge ordered it to pay $50,000 a day in fines.
....
The news followed a Thursday order that Cyber Ninjas turn over public records to The Arizona Republic, including emails and text messages, to comply with an August ruling — or face $50,000 in fines per day.

Cyber Ninjas shutting down after judge fines Arizona audit company $50K a day

 

[Sparagmos]

And you know this how? Can you see into the future?

It already exists?

 

[Sparagmos]

Perhaps fraud convictions are low, much like low rates of convictions for stealing in New York City. That doesn't mean that thefts are rare in NYC. Remember that there has only been one full forensic audit in one county within the whole United States out of thousands of counties. That audit showed a lot of improper votes.

Except there is no evidence of any meaningful amount of fraud beyond. Just people imagining it.