VOTE HOW MANY BELIEVE IN A PRE TRIBULATION HOPE/RAPTURE ?

Douggg

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Mortal, normal living people.
What scripture says that the resurrected dead in Christ and translated living in Christ - will be given mortal bodies ?
The beast kills them. Or his minions do.
They are resurrected when Jesus Returns and become His co-rulers and priests. Rev 20:6b

Why don't all those deceived by the rapture to heaven theory, read their Bibles properly?
I am astounded at the incapability of some to understand even the simplest scripture about the end time things to happen.
Those taking part in the rapture/resurrection event of 1Thessalonians4:15-18 goes all the way back to the first Christians who died in Christ.

Paul in 1Thessalonians4:13 was talking about Christians who had already died.

13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

So why do those Christians need to have their bodies resurrected and taken to another part of the world to be protected from persecution of the beast ? The beast cannot persecute them who are already dead.

keras, the truth of the matter is they are resurrected back to life and join with the translated living in Christ, and taken to heaven, to fulfill God's promise of an everlasting, incorruptible eternal body.
 
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keras

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What scripture says that the resurrected dead in Christ and translated living in Christ - will be given mortal bodies ?
Revelation 20:4.......they came to life again and reigned with Christ......REB
I checked the KJV, it has nothing about immortality at that time. Purely in the imagination of the rapture wannabees.

Simply; those martyrs will brought back to normal human life, as Lazarus was.
Those taking part in the rapture/resurrection event of 1Thessalonians4:15-18 goes all the way back to the first Christians who died in Christ.
Unscriptural nonsense.
Paul does not say all the Christians who have died. We get that information from Rev 20:5, where the rest of the dead must await the GWT Judgment.
Paul in 1Thessalonians4:13 was talking about Christians who had already died.
Sure he was.
The hope for all the dead is that their Names will be found in the Book of Life and they will receive Eternal life.
Job, David and Lazarus, plus every dead Christian we know, ALL 'sleep in death', until they stand before God with everyone who has ever lived, in the final wrap up of mortal mankind.

the truth of the matter is they are resurrected back to life and join with the translated living in Christ, and taken to heaven, to fulfill God's promise of an everlasting, incorruptible eternal body.
This is simply illogical and totally unscriptural.
Jesus will reign on earth, those who have proved themselves worthy will be His priests and co-rulers. Isaiah 66:21, Revelation 5:9-10
 
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Douggg

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Revelation 20:4.......they came to life again and reigned with Christ......REB
I checked the KJV, it has nothing about immortality at that time. Purely in the imagination of the rapture wannabees.

Simply; those martyrs will brought back to normal human life, as Lazarus was.
No, I was referring to the rapture/resurrection event. The Revelation 20:4-6 event is a resurrection only - of the great tribulation martyrs.

Unscriptural nonsense.
Paul does not say all the Christians who have died. We get that information from Rev 20:5, where the rest of the dead must await the GWT Judgment.
What Paul wrote in 1Thessalonains4:13 is scriptural. And applies to them who had already died in Christ to be included when the rapture/resurrection event takes place.

13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

They are not going to be resurrected only to go to another part of the world in mortal bodies. There is no reason for that to happen.

This is simply illogical and totally unscriptural.
Jesus will reign on earth, those who have proved themselves worthy will be His priests and co-rulers. Isaiah 66:21, Revelation 5:9-10
The rapture/resurrected saints will be taken to heaven. When Jesus returns, they will accompany Jesus and will reign and rule with him as kings and priests.

What is not going to happen is for the saints to be raptured/resurrected into mortal bodies and taken to another part of the world to escape persecution by the beast.... as you are claiming.
 
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Jeffrey Bowden

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Which must be at the final Judgment, after the Millennium.
The proof that 1 Cor 15:50-56, happens at the Great White throne Judgment, is in Rev 21:4; only then is Death no more.

It is a Prophecy about the glorious Return of Jesus, to reign on earth for the next thousand years. Gathered to Him, as per Matthew 24:31
It is ridiculous to assume that anyone goes to heaven at that time, or any time!

Mortal, normal living people. They will only be the martyrs killed during the last 1260 days before Jesus Returns.
Their bodies will have decomposed; at least their heads cut off, so God will need to remake them; which I have no doubt He is capable of doing.
They can die again, although people will live for much longer in the Millennium. But Revelation 20:6 says their second death has no power over them.
Meaning - because their names are Written in the Book of Life, immortality is assured for them.

The beast kills them. Or his minions do.
They are resurrected when Jesus Returns and become His co-rulers and priests. Rev 20:6b

Why don't all those deceived by the rapture to heaven theory, read their Bibles properly?
I am astounded at the incapability of some to understand even the simplest scripture about the end time things to happen.
Mr. Keras, your comment about Matt 24:31 is false. There is no “gathering to Him” in that verse. You are making that up.

The glorious return of Jesus is the 2A. That does not align with Acts 1:11, so it cannot be the next return of Jesus.

Your comment about 1 Cor 15:50-56 is also false. The last trumpet is in 1 Th 4:16. Verse 17’s activity immediately follow it. We will be in our glorified bodies as we are raptured into the clouds to meet Jesus. That can certainly happen in Heaven. Why? When Jesus ascended in Acts 1:9, He disappeared out of the disciples’ sight. He then was in Heaven. We will be raptured into heavenly clouds in 1 Th 4:17, and we will disappear out of the sight of “those who dwell on the earth.” John 14:3 says, “… I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am.”

Where is Jesus?

The actions in 1 Th 4:16-17 do not occur at the GWTJ. The context for 1 Th 4:16-17 includes “those who dwell on the earth.”Therefore, all that occurs pre-Trib, per John 14:3 and Rev 3:10.
 
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keras

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What is not going to happen is for the saints to be raptured/resurrected into mortal bodies and taken to another part of the world to escape persecution by the beast.... as you are claiming.
Your failure to understand what I say, let alone what the Bible states, is legendary.
The resurrection of the GT martyrs will happen when Jesus Returns. They will not be made immortal then, as the world will continue on much as it is now for the next thousand years. THEN ; those who are found worthy will receive immortality and those wicked peoples will be annihilated in the Lake of Fire. Revelation 20:11-15
I was referring to the rapture/resurrection event.
There is just no such thing as a 'rapture/resurrection event', for anyone other than those killed for their faith during the 1260 days of world Satanic control. Who includes the 2 Witnesses. They do not go to live in heaven.
They are not going to be resurrected only to go to another part of the world in mortal bodies. There is no reason for that to happen.
Where do you get that from? They become Jesus' Priests and co-rulers.
Please cease making wild assertions about what I say and stop believing theories that are never stated in the Bible.
The rapture/resurrected saints will be taken to heaven. When Jesus returns, they will accompany Jesus
Incredible and unbiblical fable, that cannot happen. To believe such nonsense, is to be seriously deceived and quite confused, as is demonstrated by your charts.
 
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keras

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Keras, your comment about Matt 24:31 is false. There is no “gathering to Him” in that verse. You are making that up.
Really? Matthew 24:30-31, seem perfectly clearly Written:
Jesus Returns to the earth and His angels gather His faithful people to Him.
The glorious return of Jesus is the 2A. That does not align with Acts 1:11, so it cannot be the next return of Jesus.
Jesus does not Return twice, that is false teaching.
Your comment about 1 Cor 15:50-56 is also false.
The Last trumpet call has to be when everybody who has ever lived, will stand in Judgment, Rev 20:11-15. AFTER the Millennium.
The actions in 1 Th 4:16-17 do not occur at the GWTJ.
More confusion on your part, that shows your inability to comprehend what I say, let alone what the Bible says.
That Prophecy and Rev 19:11-21, is the best description of what will happen at the glorious Return.

Your notions about 'those who dwell on the earth', is your private interpretation, made only to support the false rapture theory.
 
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Jeffrey Bowden

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Really? Matthew 24:30-31, seem perfectly clearly Written:
Jesus Returns to the earth and His angels gather His faithful people to Him.

Jesus does not Return twice, that is false teaching.

The Last trumpet call has to be when everybody who has ever lived, will stand in Judgment, Rev 20:11-15. AFTER the Millennium.

More confusion on your part, that shows your inability to comprehend what I say, let alone what the Bible says.
That Prophecy and Rev 19:11-21, is the best description of what will happen at the glorious Return.

Your notions about 'those who dwell on the earth', is your private interpretation, made only to support the false rapture theory.
Matt 24:31 does not say anything about that. You’re making it up.

You are false, again. There are two returns: the pre-Trib rapture (a private return) and the 2A (a public return).

Acts 1:11 says the private return matches 1 Th 4:16-17. We will have our glorified bodies, so we WILL be raptured to Heaven.
 
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keras

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Matt 24:31 does not say anything about that. You’re making it up.

You are false, again. There are two returns: the pre-Trib rapture (a private return) and the 2A (a public return).

Acts 1:11 says the private return matches 1 Th 4:16-17. We will have our glorified bodies, so we WILL be raptured to Heaven.
You are in lala land. Your beliefs are way out of line with what the Bible says.
Fortunately, your weird notions are so obviously wrong, that you fool no one else.

I don't expect much support, as the ancient Prophets that I promote were vilified and rejected too. But millions think there will be a rapture, - where is your support? Maybe a few here, ones who have shown to be hopelessly deceived and confused themselves.
 
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Douggg

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Your failure to understand what I say, let alone what the Bible states, is legendary.
Okay, I may have gotten confused over your scenario of the hundreds of millions of Christians packed into the replacement nation of Beulah (in your scenario) being evacuated to another part of the world to avoid persecution when that abomination of desolation is setup in Jerusalem on the temple mount.

Go over it again, how do you think that evacuation is going to take place?
 
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keras

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Go over it again, how do you think that evacuation is going to take place?
I have written a book; of over 800 articles, free to read on my website.
Here is one, about how the Christian peoples will gather into all of the holy Land soon after the Lord has cleared and cleansed it.

The Second Exodus:
In over forty Bible passages, it is prophesied that the Lord will gather His people: all righteous believers and settle them into the holy Land. Isaiah 35:1-10, Psalms 107:1-43, Romans 9:24-26
In this second exodus, the descendants of Jacob, plus all those people grafted in and deemed to be the Lord’s people by their Christian faith, will come from all parts of the earth and assemble in a place called “the wilderness of the people”. Ezekiel 20:34-38 describes this event very well. Those judged unrighteous will not enter the Land.

The gathering of the Lord’s people into the Promised Land, must happen before Ezekiel 38:8 & 12– because the Northern army of Gog comes to invade “a land recently recovered from war, whose people are gathered from many nations, now living in peace and prosperity”. This attack by Gog, happens a few years after all the Lord’s true believers have settled into the Land – “in the very center of the world – the towns restored from ruin”. The attackers are annihilated by the Lord.

This must occur some time before the Return of Jesus, as then He destroys the worldwide army of the Anti-Christ, who have conquered the holy Land. Daniel 7:25, Zechariah 14:1-2, Revelation 13:5
Although Persia [Iran] is mentioned as a member of Gog’s host, most are from “the far recesses of the North”. The current enemies of the State of Israel, the Arab nations are not included. The reason for this, is that all the nations surrounding Israel, including Israel as well, will be devastated by the next prophesied event: Psalms 83:1-18, which is the Lord’s Day of vengeance and wrath. The Lord will act at the moment His enemies make the mistake of attacking Israel. Deuteronomy 32:34-35, Psalms 7:15

This judgement will not be in the form of a nuclear exchange, as that would pollute the Land, but what fits the many prophesied descriptions of this Day, is a huge Coronal Mass Ejection from the sun. Isaiah 30:26 This will affect the entire world, but mostly, the Middle East area. Ezekiel 30:2-5 The Land of Greater Israel will be burnt over and devastated, all the population killed or evacuated. Jeremiah 10:18

THEN: Ezekiel 36:8-12 You Land of Israel: put forth your branches and bear fruit, for the homecoming of My people is near. The towns will again be inhabited and the ruined places rebuilt, more prosperous and populous than in ancient times.

This great Second Exodus of the Lord’s people will then take place. There are many prophecies about it: Ezekiel 34:11-31…I will search for My sheep and gather them to the Land of Israel, from wherever they were scattered on My Day of wrath…. they will be the flock I feed and I will be their God.

Isaiah 66:18b-19 I am coming to gather peoples of every tongue, they will come to see My glory. I shall put a sign on them and some I will send out to the nations who have never heard of Me. They will proclaim My Gospel to all peoples.
“I shall put a sign on them and will send some out to the nations
”, some of them; must be the 144,000, as described in Revelation 7:3-8 & 14:1-7, Isaiah 49:6

Luke 10:1-12 is a precursor of these missionaries, who will “proclaim My Gospel” to ALL the world. This is the Gospel of the coming Kingdom of God – the coming Millennium reign of Jesus. This makes these verses irrefutable proof that the second Exodus of all the Lord’s holy people, must happen some years before the Return of Jesus.
 
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Jeffrey Bowden

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You are in lala land. Your beliefs are way out of line with what the Bible says.
Fortunately, your weird notions are so obviously wrong, that you fool no one else.

I don't expect much support, as the ancient Prophets that I promote were vilified and rejected too. But millions think there will be a rapture, - where is your support? Maybe a few here, ones who have shown to be hopelessly deceived and confused themselves.

You are in lala land. Your beliefs are way out of line with what the Bible says.
Fortunately, your weird notions are so obviously wrong, that you fool no one else.

I don't expect much support, as the ancient Prophets that I promote were vilified and rejected too. But millions think there will be a rapture, - where is your support? Maybe a few here, ones who have shown to be hopelessly deceived and confused themselves.
Biblical facts your are missing:

1. Matt 24:31 does not say where the gathered go. There are two options: (A) As part of the armies in Rev 19:14 or (B) As part of those in Matt 25:34-40. Prove otherwise.

2. Two verses address the pre-Trib timing of the rapture: Rev 3:10 and 1 Th 1:10.

Rev 3:10 (ESV): Because you have kept my word about patient endurance, I will keep you from the hour of trial that is coming on the whole world, to try those who dwell on the earth.

There are two groups distinguished in Rev 3:10: “you” (we believers) and “those” (who dwell on the earth). Those are the unbelievers who will be left behind at the rapture.

Rev 11:10 proves that the phrase: “those who dwell on the earth,” is a very demeaning phrase: Rev 11:10 (ESV): and those who dwell on the earth will rejoice over them and make merry and exchange presents, because these two prophets had been a torment to those who dwell on the earth.

That proves that “those who dwell on the earth” in Rev 3:10, are the unbelievers left behind after the pre-Trib rapture.

Jesus also says in Rev 3:10 (NIV): “I will also keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come on the whole world to test the inhabitants of the earth.”

What does “will keep you from” mean about “the hour of the hour of trial that is going to come on the whole world to test the inhabitants of the earth?

1 Th 1:10 (ESV): and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come.

“Delivers us" in 1 Th 1:10 means we are snatched away (raptured): "The second usage of deliverance refers to the Acts of God whereby he rescues his people from danger. The key words nasal [l;v"n] ("draw out, snatched away")," --- Source: Baker's Evangelical Dictionary of Biblical Theology.

Wars are a form of God's wrath: Ezekiel 14:21 (NLT): “Now this is what the Sovereign Lord says: How terrible it will be when all four of these dreadful punishments fall upon Jerusalem—war, famine, wild animals, and disease—destroying all her people and animals.

Rev 6:4 (TLB): This time a red horse rode out. Its rider was given a long sword and the authority to banish peace and bring anarchy to the earth; war and killing broke out everywhere.

There are wars in Rev 4 as never before. That is God’s wrath in Rev 6:4, the 2nd seal. In 1 Th 1:10 (ESV) it says that Jesus “delivers us from the wrath to come.”

With God’s wrath occurring in the Trib no later that the 2nd seal, we are raptured pre-Trib raptured.

Prove that 1 Th 1:10 is not referring to the pre-Trib timing of the rapture promised by Jesus in Rev 3:10.
You are in lala land. Your beliefs are way out of line with what the Bible says.
Fortunately, your weird notions are so obviously wrong, that you fool no one else.

I don't expect much support, as the ancient Prophets that I promote were vilified and rejected too. But millions think there will be a rapture, - where is your support? Maybe a few here, ones who have shown to be hopelessly deceived and confused themselves.
You haven’t proved that Matt 24:31 is “a gathering to Him.”

Prove it.
 
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Jeffrey Bowden

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Biblical facts your are missing:

1. Matt 24:31 does not say where the gathered go. There are two options: (A) As part of the armies in Rev 19:14 or (B) As part of those in Matt 25:34-40. Prove otherwise.

2. Two verses address the pre-Trib timing of the rapture: Rev 3:10 and 1 Th 1:10.

Rev 3:10 (ESV): Because you have kept my word about patient endurance, I will keep you from the hour of trial that is coming on the whole world, to try those who dwell on the earth.

There are two groups distinguished in Rev 3:10: “you” (we believers) and “those” (who dwell on the earth). Those are the unbelievers who will be left behind at the rapture.

Rev 11:10 proves that the phrase: “those who dwell on the earth,” is a very demeaning phrase: Rev 11:10 (ESV): and those who dwell on the earth will rejoice over them and make merry and exchange presents, because these two prophets had been a torment to those who dwell on the earth.

That proves that “those who dwell on the earth” in Rev 3:10, are the unbelievers left behind after the pre-Trib rapture.

Jesus also says in Rev 3:10 (NIV): “I will also keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come on the whole world to test the inhabitants of the earth.”

What does “will keep you from” mean about “the hour of the hour of trial that is going to come on the whole world to test the inhabitants of the earth?

1 Th 1:10 (ESV): and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come.

“Delivers us" in 1 Th 1:10 means we are snatched away (raptured): "The second usage of deliverance refers to the Acts of God whereby he rescues his people from danger. The key words nasal [l;v"n] ("draw out, snatched away")," --- Source: Baker's Evangelical Dictionary of Biblical Theology.

Wars are a form of God's wrath: Ezekiel 14:21 (NLT): “Now this is what the Sovereign Lord says: How terrible it will be when all four of these dreadful punishments fall upon Jerusalem—war, famine, wild animals, and disease—destroying all her people and animals.

Rev 6:4 (TLB): This time a red horse rode out. Its rider was given a long sword and the authority to banish peace and bring anarchy to the earth; war and killing broke out everywhere.

There are wars in Rev 4 as never before. That is God’s wrath in Rev 6:4, the 2nd seal. In 1 Th 1:10 (ESV) it says that Jesus “delivers us from the wrath to come.”

With God’s wrath occurring in the Trib no later that the 2nd seal, we are raptured pre-Trib raptured.

Prove that 1 Th 1:10 is not referring to the pre-Trib timing of the rapture promised by Jesus in Rev 3:10.

You haven’t proved that Matt 24:31 is “a gathering to Him.”

Prove it.
The pre-Trib rapture is proved, above. You can’t prove those verses wrong.
 
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keras

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The pre-Trib rapture is proved, above. You can’t prove those verses wrong.
They certainly do not say what you think they do.
The correct option for those gathered from around the world, when Jesus Returns, is they will be with Him in Jerusalem, then for the Millennium and finally for Eternity.
They will be the 'sheep', of Matthew 25:33

What you have yet to prove is why the Lord would take anyone to heaven before any kind of testing or Judgment. He hasn't done that for any of the persecuted Christians yet, its illogical, unreasonable and is never stated to happen in the Bible.

The 'rapture to heaven', pre, mid. or post trib, is a false theory and will never happen. Plenty of Prophecy tells us what the Lord actually does plan for His people and His enemies.
But if people can't/ won't see it, then they will be at a serious disadvantage as the end times events take place.
 
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Jeffrey Bowden

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They certainly do not say what you think they do.
The correct option for those gathered from around the world, when Jesus Returns, is they will be with Him in Jerusalem, then for the Millennium and finally for Eternity.
They will be the 'sheep', of Matthew 25:33

What you have yet to prove is why the Lord would take anyone to heaven before any kind of testing or Judgment. He hasn't done that for any of the persecuted Christians yet, its illogical, unreasonable and is never stated to happen in the Bible.

The 'rapture to heaven', pre, mid. or post trib, is a false theory and will never happen. Plenty of Prophecy tells us what the Lord actually does plan for His people and His enemies.
But if people can't/ won't see it, then they will be at a serious disadvantage as the end times events take place.
Rev 3:10 is about the pre-Trib timing of the rapture. Jesus said He will keep us from “the hour of trial.” That’s the worldwide 7-year Trib. We are pre-Trib raptured to Heaven, accordingly.

A close study of Rev 3:10 will prove there are two groups cited. Where it says “you,” that is we who are raptured to Heaven. The other group is described as “those who dwell on the earth.” That is a very demeaning phrase signifying unbelievers, as in Rev 11:10 (ESV): and those who dwell on the earth will rejoice over them and make merry and exchange presents, because these two prophets had been a torment to those who dwell on the earth.

You just don’t want to accept what Rev 3:10 says and means. You therefore seek to change its meaning with false attributions. Jerusalem isn’t mentioned in Rev 3:10. You are falsely attributing Jerusalem to a verse that has no relationship to it.
 
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keras

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You are falsely attributing Jerusalem to a verse that has no relationship to it.
You blatantly and knowingly add to Revelation by making Rev 3:10 into a 'rapture to heaven'.
It says the whole world, all its inhabitants; will be tested and those who stand firm in their faith during this test [the Sixth Seal] He will keep from the Great Tribulation, during the final 42 months. As Prophesied in Rev 12:14.

Nothing about being raptured to heaven in that verse, or anywhere in the Bible.
The more you twist and add to scripture, the worse it looks for you and your false theory, of the rapture.
 
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Douggg

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I have written a book; of over 800 articles, free to read on my website.
Here is one, about how the Christian peoples will gather into all of the holy Land soon after the Lord has cleared and cleansed it.

The Second Exodus:
In over forty Bible passages, it is prophesied that the Lord will gather His people: all righteous believers and settle them into the holy Land. Isaiah 35:1-10, Psalms 107:1-43, Romans 9:24-26
In this second exodus, the descendants of Jacob, plus all those people grafted in and deemed to be the Lord’s people by their Christian faith, will come from all parts of the earth and assemble in a place called “the wilderness of the people”. Ezekiel 20:34-38 describes this event very well. Those judged unrighteous will not enter the Land.

The gathering of the Lord’s people into the Promised Land, must happen before Ezekiel 38:8 & 12– because the Northern army of Gog comes to invade “a land recently recovered from war, whose people are gathered from many nations, now living in peace and prosperity”. This attack by Gog, happens a few years after all the Lord’s true believers have settled into the Land – “in the very center of the world – the towns restored from ruin”. The attackers are annihilated by the Lord.

This must occur some time before the Return of Jesus, as then He destroys the worldwide army of the Anti-Christ, who have conquered the holy Land. Daniel 7:25, Zechariah 14:1-2, Revelation 13:5
Although Persia [Iran] is mentioned as a member of Gog’s host, most are from “the far recesses of the North”. The current enemies of the State of Israel, the Arab nations are not included. The reason for this, is that all the nations surrounding Israel, including Israel as well, will be devastated by the next prophesied event: Psalms 83:1-18, which is the Lord’s Day of vengeance and wrath. The Lord will act at the moment His enemies make the mistake of attacking Israel. Deuteronomy 32:34-35, Psalms 7:15

This judgement will not be in the form of a nuclear exchange, as that would pollute the Land, but what fits the many prophesied descriptions of this Day, is a huge Coronal Mass Ejection from the sun. Isaiah 30:26 This will affect the entire world, but mostly, the Middle East area. Ezekiel 30:2-5 The Land of Greater Israel will be burnt over and devastated, all the population killed or evacuated. Jeremiah 10:18

THEN: Ezekiel 36:8-12 You Land of Israel: put forth your branches and bear fruit, for the homecoming of My people is near. The towns will again be inhabited and the ruined places rebuilt, more prosperous and populous than in ancient times.

This great Second Exodus of the Lord’s people will then take place. There are many prophecies about it: Ezekiel 34:11-31…I will search for My sheep and gather them to the Land of Israel, from wherever they were scattered on My Day of wrath…. they will be the flock I feed and I will be their God.

Isaiah 66:18b-19 I am coming to gather peoples of every tongue, they will come to see My glory. I shall put a sign on them and some I will send out to the nations who have never heard of Me. They will proclaim My Gospel to all peoples.
“I shall put a sign on them and will send some out to the nations
”, some of them; must be the 144,000, as described in Revelation 7:3-8 & 14:1-7, Isaiah 49:6

Luke 10:1-12 is a precursor of these missionaries, who will “proclaim My Gospel” to ALL the world. This is the Gospel of the coming Kingdom of God – the coming Millennium reign of Jesus. This makes these verses irrefutable proof that the second Exodus of all the Lord’s holy people, must happen some years before the Return of Jesus.
I was referring to the fleeing evacuation when the abomination of desolation is setup. You have hundreds of millions of Christians living in the nation you are calling Beulah. Where do they fleeing to and how ?


Matthew 24:
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand: )

16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:

18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.

19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
 
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Jeffrey Bowden

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Rev 3:10 is about the pre-Trib timing of the rapture. Jesus said He will keep us from “the hour of trial.” That’s the worldwide 7-year Trib. We are pre-Trib raptured to Heaven, accordingly.

A close study of Rev 3:10 will prove there are two groups cited. Where it says “you,” that is we who are raptured to Heaven. The other group is described as “those who dwell on the earth.” That is a very demeaning phrase signifying unbelievers, as in Rev 11:10 (ESV): and those who dwell on the earth will rejoice over them and make merry and exchange presents, because these two prophets had been a torment to those who dwell on the earth.

You just don’t want to accept what Rev 3:10 says and means. You therefore seek to change its meaning with false attributions. Jerusalem isn’t mentioned in Rev 3:10. You are falsely attributing Jerusalem to a verse that has no relationship to it.

You blatantly and knowingly add to Revelation by making Rev 3:10 into a 'rapture to heaven'.
It says the whole world, all its inhabitants; will be tested and those who stand firm in their faith during this test [the Sixth Seal] He will keep from the Great Tribulation, during the final 42 months. As Prophesied in Rev 12:14.

Nothing about being raptured to heaven in that verse, or anywhere in the Bible.
The more you twist and add to scripture, the worse it looks for you and your false theory, of the rapture.
True or false? There are TWO groups cited in Rev 3:10 (NIV): Because YOU have kept my word about patient endurance, I will keep YOU from the hour of trial that is coming on the whole world, to try THOSE who dwell on the earth.

True or false? The phrase, “those who dwell are on the earth,” is a very demeaning phrase as proven in Rev 11:10 (ESV): and those who dwell on the earth will rejoice over them and make merry and exchange presents, because these two prophets had been a torment to those who dwell on the earth.

True or false? The “hour of trial” will only TRY THOSE “who dwell on the earth?”
 
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Jeffrey Bowden

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Which must be at the final Judgment, after the Millennium.
The proof that 1 Cor 15:50-56, happens at the Great White throne Judgment, is in Rev 21:4; only then is Death no more.

It is a Prophecy about the glorious Return of Jesus, to reign on earth for the next thousand years. Gathered to Him, as per Matthew 24:31
It is ridiculous to assume that anyone goes to heaven at that time, or any time!

Mortal, normal living people. They will only be the martyrs killed during the last 1260 days before Jesus Returns.
Their bodies will have decomposed; at least their heads cut off, so God will need to remake them; which I have no doubt He is capable of doing.
They can die again, although people will live for much longer in the Millennium. But Revelation 20:6 says their second death has no power over them.
Meaning - because their names are Written in the Book of Life, immortality is assured for them.

The beast kills them. Or his minions do.
They are resurrected when Jesus Returns and become His co-rulers and priests. Rev 20:6b

Why don't all those deceived by the rapture to heaven theory, read their Bibles properly?
I am astounded at the incapability of some to understand even the simplest scripture about the end time things to happen.
There is no Scripture citing “dead in Christ” at the GWTJ. All dead raised for the GWTJ are unbelievers who died in sin.

Paul is speaking to fellow brothers and sisters in Christ in 2 Cor 15:50-54 (NIV): I declare to you, brothers and sisters, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 51 Listen, I tell you a mystery:We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— 52 in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound,the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53 For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. 54 When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: “Death has been swallowed up in victory.”

The last trumpet sounds (1 Th 4:16) when there are “those who dwell the earth.” Jesus is hidden behind heavenly clouds (1 Th 4:17) and we are raptured directly to Him, to forever be with our LORD (1 Th 4:17).

Jesus never touches earth in 1 Th 4:16-17. We go straight to Heaven in fulfillment of John 14:3.
 
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keras

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I was referring to the fleeing evacuation when the abomination of desolation is setup. You have hundreds of millions of Christians living in the nation you are calling Beulah. Where do they fleeing to and how ?
When the AoD happens, which will be at the mid point of the 7 years before Jesus Returns, then the faithful Christians will be taken to a place of safety on earth. As Rev 12:14 says.
I seems that Jesus was speaking of two 'fleeings', of the Christians, one at 60 AD, the other yet to happen.
Which is typical of most Prophecy; a little mixed up!
 
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