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Voluntary Euthanasia

cantata

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I believe that a person can simply stop treatment. I have no problem with that. To end a person's life; especially, when people are so against the executions of murderers is wrong. I feel that everyone can use an opportunity to think over their eternity. And a slow death is likely how GOD may get someone's attention. A slow death is to be preferred to an etenal one in any case.

How is helping someone die out of mercy anything like killing someone for retribution?

It's strange that some people don't afford the compassion to their fellow self-aware human beings that they do to their pets...
 
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LittleNipper

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How is helping someone die out of mercy anything like killing someone for retribution?

It's strange that some people don't afford the compassion to their fellow self-aware human beings that they do to their pets...
How is it mercy to kill someone who needs an opportunity to review his/her life and perhaps say he is sorry...? How is it mercy to send someone off to very possibly a CHRISTLESS eternity where the pain and suffering will be endless and not just temporary? And will it stop with the patient's choice or will the goodiie-goodies step in to end the lives of everyone they feel maybe suffering in some way...? And what exactly is wrong with retribution if the due process was followed?
 
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cantata

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How is it mercy to kill someone who needs an opportunity to review his/her life and perhaps say he is sorry...? How is it mercy to send someone off to very possibly a CHRISTLESS eternity where the pain and suffering will be endless and not just temporary?

Not everyone has the same beliefs as you do. This is hardly a valid medical argument, let alone an ethical one. Do you really think that euthanasia should be illegal just because you happen to believe that the suffering of terminally ill patients is all part of God's plan?

And will it stop with the patient's choice or will the goodiie-goodies step in to end the lives of everyone they feel maybe suffering in some way...?

Most people make a distinction between voluntary and involuntary euthanasia (as in the OP). It would be perfectly possible to legalise one and not the other.

And what exactly is wrong with retribution if the due process was followed?

Oh, I don't know, how about the fact that it's supposed to be up to God, and it's certainly not up to the state?

Prison and other sentences exist to deter people from committing crimes and to secure people who are a danger to the public. They do not exist for people to get their own back.
 
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stan1980

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All i know is that if i get a debilitating disease, and euthanasia still isn't legally allowed, i know i'm going to have to take matters into my own hands before the disease has completely taken over me. I don't want to be sat in a hospice in agonising pain. As pointed out, you wouldn't even treat a dog like this.
 
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LittleNipper

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Not everyone has the same beliefs as you do. This is hardly a valid medical argument, let alone an ethical one. Do you really think that euthanasia should be illegal just because you happen to believe that the suffering of terminally ill patients is all part of God's plan?



Most people make a distinction between voluntary and involuntary euthanasia (as in the OP). It would be perfectly possible to legalise one and not the other.



Oh, I don't know, how about the fact that it's supposed to be up to God, and it's certainly not up to the state?

Prison and other sentences exist to deter people from committing crimes and to secure people who are a danger to the public. They do not exist for people to get their own back.
Exactly, and you should not shove your beliefs down another's throat by assisting anyone in killing himself. You are free to provide an opinion and that is exactly what I am doing. As for prison, right now in Burlington County we have a man on trial for the murder of a Evesham woman. He is presently already in jail for a sexual attack on one young lady, and also attacked 2 other women. So exactly how many time does one allow a person to ruin the lives of innocent people before he is permanently stuck in jail. The one person is dead. Three other women have been sexually ruined in their own minds. And let say, we spend and ever increasing sum (beginning at around $35 thousand a year) to clothe, house, feed, nurse, and entertain this criminal for 70 plus years..... What exacly has been done for the family of the woman killed? NOTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
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cantata

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All i know is that if i get a debilitating disease, and euthanasia still isn't legally allowed, i know i'm going to have to take matters into my own hands before the disease has completely taken over me. I don't want to be sat in a hospice in agonising pain. As pointed out, you wouldn't even treat a dog like this.

Yes, I feel the same way.

To be honest, I fear pain more than death. I would take matters into my own hands as well, even if there were a small chance that I could survive. I value my quality of life over just life for life's sake.
 
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Caitlin.ann

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Exactly, and you should not shove your beliefs down another's throat by assisting anyone in killing himself. You are free to provide an opinion and that is exactly what I am doing.

She wasn't shoving belief down anyones throat! The fact that you don't believe in offering voluntary euthanasia to people because you want them to repent first is shoving belief down someones throat. Voluntary means making it a choice and you don't want to give people that choice. Kind of ironic, eh?
 
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cantata

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Exactly, and you should not shove your beliefs down another's throat by assisting anyone in killing himself. You are free to provide an opinion and that is exactly what I am doing.

Whaaat? How does this relate to anything I said?

Some people suffering from terminal illnesses want to end their lives. How is it anyone's business except theirs, and those who wish to help them? Why should your beliefs prevent them from acting as they wish?

If voluntary euthanasia were legal, you would be under no obligation to be euthanised. I don't see what the problem is.
 
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mpshiel

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Many people feel while able bodied that "If I were like that, just shoot me" etc.

Unfortunately is it this exact fear (which is an unknowning fear, since it is like a Unbelievable Weathly person looking at a peasant shephard and deciding that someone "in such a state" must be one of perpetual agony and would rather die. While for a shephard, it is just....life. This fear of pain, disease and disability is why parents will often kill off children and get away with it; or in cases I know of, children waiting for inheritances kill off parents. As many point out, doctors often simply phone in the morphine drip, which will put the older person into a coma over a few days (whether they would die naturally or not) and away they a few days/week after that. It is true that death can and does linger. But just because you are scared of it doesn't mean you get to die - that's why we don't allow people to kill themselves (or thier children) instead of having to go to the dentist.

I find it particularly ironic that the case mentioned was a woman who was dying of a MND (a degenerative motor neuron disease) as I am dying of a degenrative motor neuron disease. And sure, when I first started getting ill, when I got my chair it was all, "Once I get to this point, let me die with dignity."

But then, I GREW UP. Which is why most disability and chronic disease groups are against most forms of Euthanasia, because the able bodied people involved don't often understand what is truely involved.

For example, proper, universal care in order to give the best stable quality of life combined with a team to deal with pain control and other medical issues would afford many people an extention of the time they have with loved ones, and with thier own desires of what they want to do with thier life. When, on the other hand, you have regulated care and have open sores and have to lie in your own bowel movements for hours (or if it is a holiday weekend), days, then yes, killing yourself seems preferable - not to the disease, but the way the quality of your life has been tossed aside.

As cancer patients and others know, nothing is more painful that your body destroying itself; and yes, sometimes that can blow past the opiates and sometimes, when you can't breathe or you are having heart infarctions or siezures, you think, "Yeah, okay, here I go." But I don't, I have adaptive tech and eventually I might type using my eyes (which ironically will go too), or tapping. And maybe, when it is a matter of hours or days, then it will be time to put me into a coma until nature takes it's course.

Of course, everyone makes up thier own decision, but please, stop saying, "I would rather die than be like that." because you really don't know what you are talking about, until you are there. Humans are very resiliant and can get used to a LOT of things. And when a person really and determinedly wants to go, well, let them go. But don't go around encouraging a culture where we see sickness and disease as something alien or "ungodly" but rather just part of the human condition: if you are born you will die, and you will be sick.

I am no pollyanna, and I still have a bit of a trip down the road of a disease which there is no treatment, no cure: indeed, all they can do is wait, watch and autopsy you to try and find something out for the next generation.

But if I had to ask myself, which is worse: the way every christian and friend I knew took off because illness made them uncomfortable after a few months; the way administrations give mountains of paperwork to people who may have difficulty holding a PEN, the stigma and view of dying or disabled people as ALREADY disposable and the idea that somehow they are "plucky" or "inspirational" or some 'other' type of human instead of someone just like you, only they have to wait for help to get to the toilet, or spend evenings coughing up bloody congealed phlegm (once your swallow function goes) before watching thier fav TV, shows. And yeah, they may go, "What Seven Seasons of Lost, I'll be lucky to see five....what happens with Sawyer?" - take all that and take the condition itself, well, one WILL kill me eventually, in months or a year or two while the other already, in most cases treats me a dead, defunct and are disinterested.

A friend died of ALS four nights ago, his last words before dying were written in advance, because of course he had to type them out. They were= "It was fun."

Trust me, watching your body shrivel, explode, and rip apart may be distressing and often pain, but it certainly isn't boring. And we don't offer people Euthanasia before Roller Coasters do we? Or scary movies?

I'm not saying I am against all Euthanasia, but I am strongly against a society and a view that feels, once I cannot speak anymore, that my life must not be worth living.

Oh as for those who think a slow death is God's wake up call - I guess Jesus must have been wavering in his faith too huh....no serious, come and dance with me; spend three days with me, in my house and you can let me know what God's message is. But remember, you might get hit by a bus on the way over here and kill right away: is that message that you weren't worth the time for God to have a conversation with you?
 
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stan1980

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Many people feel while able bodied that "If I were like that, just shoot me" etc.

Unfortunately is it this exact fear (which is an unknowning fear, since it is like a Unbelievable Weathly person looking at a peasant shephard and deciding that someone "in such a state" must be one of perpetual agony and would rather die. While for a shephard, it is just....life. This fear of pain, disease and disability is why parents will often kill off children and get away with it; or in cases I know of, children waiting for inheritances kill off parents. As many point out, doctors often simply phone in the morphine drip, which will put the older person into a coma over a few days (whether they would die naturally or not) and away they a few days/week after that. It is true that death can and does linger. But just because you are scared of it doesn't mean you get to die - that's why we don't allow people to kill themselves (or thier children) instead of having to go to the dentist.

I find it particularly ironic that the case mentioned was a woman who was dying of a MND (a degenerative motor neuron disease) as I am dying of a degenrative motor neuron disease. And sure, when I first started getting ill, when I got my chair it was all, "Once I get to this point, let me die with dignity."

But then, I GREW UP. Which is why most disability and chronic disease groups are against most forms of Euthanasia, because the able bodied people involved don't often understand what is truely involved.

For example, proper, universal care in order to give the best stable quality of life combined with a team to deal with pain control and other medical issues would afford many people an extention of the time they have with loved ones, and with thier own desires of what they want to do with thier life. When, on the other hand, you have regulated care and have open sores and have to lie in your own bowel movements for hours (or if it is a holiday weekend), days, then yes, killing yourself seems preferable - not to the disease, but the way the quality of your life has been tossed aside.

As cancer patients and others know, nothing is more painful that your body destroying itself; and yes, sometimes that can blow past the opiates and sometimes, when you can't breathe or you are having heart infarctions or siezures, you think, "Yeah, okay, here I go." But I don't, I have adaptive tech and eventually I might type using my eyes (which ironically will go too), or tapping. And maybe, when it is a matter of hours or days, then it will be time to put me into a coma until nature takes it's course.

Of course, everyone makes up thier own decision, but please, stop saying, "I would rather die than be like that." because you really don't know what you are talking about, until you are there. Humans are very resiliant and can get used to a LOT of things. And when a person really and determinedly wants to go, well, let them go. But don't go around encouraging a culture where we see sickness and disease as something alien or "ungodly" but rather just part of the human condition: if you are born you will die, and you will be sick.

I am no pollyanna, and I still have a bit of a trip down the road of a disease which there is no treatment, no cure: indeed, all they can do is wait, watch and autopsy you to try and find something out for the next generation.

But if I had to ask myself, which is worse: the way every christian and friend I knew took off because illness made them uncomfortable after a few months; the way administrations give mountains of paperwork to people who may have difficulty holding a PEN, the stigma and view of dying or disabled people as ALREADY disposable and the idea that somehow they are "plucky" or "inspirational" or some 'other' type of human instead of someone just like you, only they have to wait for help to get to the toilet, or spend evenings coughing up bloody congealed phlegm (once your swallow function goes) before watching thier fav TV, shows. And yeah, they may go, "What Seven Seasons of Lost, I'll be lucky to see five....what happens with Sawyer?" - take all that and take the condition itself, well, one WILL kill me eventually, in months or a year or two while the other already, in most cases treats me a dead, defunct and are disinterested.

A friend died of ALS four nights ago, his last words before dying were written in advance, because of course he had to type them out. They were= "It was fun."

Trust me, watching your body shrivel, explode, and rip apart may be distressing and often pain, but it certainly isn't boring. And we don't offer people Euthanasia before Roller Coasters do we? Or scary movies?

I'm not saying I am against all Euthanasia, but I am strongly against a society and a view that feels, once I cannot speak anymore, that my life must not be worth living.

Oh as for those who think a slow death is God's wake up call - I guess Jesus must have been wavering in his faith too huh....no serious, come and dance with me; spend three days with me, in my house and you can let me know what God's message is. But remember, you might get hit by a bus on the way over here and kill right away: is that message that you weren't worth the time for God to have a conversation with you?

I'm not sure what to say, for once. Thank you for this view point. You are right of course, none of us know what we're talking about unless we are actually there. So i should probably retract my comment earlier that i'll top myself if a disease ever takes over. Who knows, i may still feel like this if i had a disease, but of course, i might not, and i wont ever know until it actually happens.
 
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Caylin

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Many people feel while able bodied that "If I were like that, just shoot me" etc.

Unfortunately is it this exact fear (which is an unknowning fear, since it is like a Unbelievable Weathly person looking at a peasant shephard and deciding that someone "in such a state" must be one of perpetual agony and would rather die. While for a shephard, it is just....life. This fear of pain, disease and disability is why parents will often kill off children and get away with it; or in cases I know of, children waiting for inheritances kill off parents. As many point out, doctors often simply phone in the morphine drip, which will put the older person into a coma over a few days (whether they would die naturally or not) and away they a few days/week after that. It is true that death can and does linger. But just because you are scared of it doesn't mean you get to die - that's why we don't allow people to kill themselves (or thier children) instead of having to go to the dentist.

I find it particularly ironic that the case mentioned was a woman who was dying of a MND (a degenerative motor neuron disease) as I am dying of a degenrative motor neuron disease. And sure, when I first started getting ill, when I got my chair it was all, "Once I get to this point, let me die with dignity."

But then, I GREW UP. Which is why most disability and chronic disease groups are against most forms of Euthanasia, because the able bodied people involved don't often understand what is truely involved.

For example, proper, universal care in order to give the best stable quality of life combined with a team to deal with pain control and other medical issues would afford many people an extention of the time they have with loved ones, and with thier own desires of what they want to do with thier life. When, on the other hand, you have regulated care and have open sores and have to lie in your own bowel movements for hours (or if it is a holiday weekend), days, then yes, killing yourself seems preferable - not to the disease, but the way the quality of your life has been tossed aside.

As cancer patients and others know, nothing is more painful that your body destroying itself; and yes, sometimes that can blow past the opiates and sometimes, when you can't breathe or you are having heart infarctions or siezures, you think, "Yeah, okay, here I go." But I don't, I have adaptive tech and eventually I might type using my eyes (which ironically will go too), or tapping. And maybe, when it is a matter of hours or days, then it will be time to put me into a coma until nature takes it's course.

Of course, everyone makes up thier own decision, but please, stop saying, "I would rather die than be like that." because you really don't know what you are talking about, until you are there. Humans are very resiliant and can get used to a LOT of things. And when a person really and determinedly wants to go, well, let them go. But don't go around encouraging a culture where we see sickness and disease as something alien or "ungodly" but rather just part of the human condition: if you are born you will die, and you will be sick.

I am no pollyanna, and I still have a bit of a trip down the road of a disease which there is no treatment, no cure: indeed, all they can do is wait, watch and autopsy you to try and find something out for the next generation.

But if I had to ask myself, which is worse: the way every christian and friend I knew took off because illness made them uncomfortable after a few months; the way administrations give mountains of paperwork to people who may have difficulty holding a PEN, the stigma and view of dying or disabled people as ALREADY disposable and the idea that somehow they are "plucky" or "inspirational" or some 'other' type of human instead of someone just like you, only they have to wait for help to get to the toilet, or spend evenings coughing up bloody congealed phlegm (once your swallow function goes) before watching thier fav TV, shows. And yeah, they may go, "What Seven Seasons of Lost, I'll be lucky to see five....what happens with Sawyer?" - take all that and take the condition itself, well, one WILL kill me eventually, in months or a year or two while the other already, in most cases treats me a dead, defunct and are disinterested.

A friend died of ALS four nights ago, his last words before dying were written in advance, because of course he had to type them out. They were= "It was fun."

Trust me, watching your body shrivel, explode, and rip apart may be distressing and often pain, but it certainly isn't boring. And we don't offer people Euthanasia before Roller Coasters do we? Or scary movies?

I'm not saying I am against all Euthanasia, but I am strongly against a society and a view that feels, once I cannot speak anymore, that my life must not be worth living.

Oh as for those who think a slow death is God's wake up call - I guess Jesus must have been wavering in his faith too huh....no serious, come and dance with me; spend three days with me, in my house and you can let me know what God's message is. But remember, you might get hit by a bus on the way over here and kill right away: is that message that you weren't worth the time for God to have a conversation with you?

I... don't know what to say, other than the fact that this makes me sad cause I respect you and your posts a lot. :(
 
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Mling

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I'm not sure what to say, for once. Thank you for this view point. You are right of course, none of us know what we're talking about unless we are actually there. So i should probably retract my comment earlier that i'll top myself if a disease ever takes over. Who knows, i may still feel like this if i had a disease, but of course, i might not, and i wont ever know until it actually happens.


My thoughts exactly. I'm trying to sort out, now, what I consider so extreme as to warrant euthanasia, but it really boils down to "whenever the person wants it."

I'm thinking about the people I have known who had disabilities. Most are perfectly happy. The only one who has died from hers (muscular dystrophy) was functional and happy until the day she had a heart attack. After that, she had so much brain damage that it was doubtful she would ever wake up. Her parents had, I believe, the good sense to pull the plug and let her die.

In general they live(d) the way you described, mpshiel--it's their life, and they live it as anybody else lives their life.

But, the boy I know now...well, he can't communicate so it's hard to tell what he's thinking, but I haven't seen him smile or laugh in months. At his best, he sometimes seems comfortable or content, but I don't know if he is ever really happy. Dementia is setting in, too, I think, and I'm not sure how capable of being happy he really is. He's developing behavior problems that don't seem due to frustration.
 
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TeddyKGB

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In all seriousness, I consider personal sovereignty much the same as constitutional rights. A right to free speech doesn't mean much unless someone is saying unpopular things; similarly, a right to control over one's body isn't being fully exploited under anything but the most extreme circumstances.
 
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Wiccan_Child

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I believe that a person can simply stop treatment. I have no problem with that. To end a person's life; especially, when people are so against the executions of murderers is wrong.
Why?

I feel that everyone can use an opportunity to think over their eternity. And a slow death is likely how GOD may get someone's attention.
So an all-loving and all-powerful entity gets someone's attention by putting them through unimaginable agony?

A slow death is to be preferred to an etenal one in any case.
Personally, I look forward to the time when I'll go to the Summerlands and see my loved ones again.
 
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Mling

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killing for retribution = bad
killing out of mercy = good

On the bare, practically transparent, anybody who isn't being willfully ignorant should be able to see through it, surface, this may look contradictory. But scratch that surface with a newborn baby's fingernail and the connection is obvious.

Compassion dictates that harming somebody and seeking out violent retribution is a Bad Thing. It is compassionate, however to allow a nearly powerless person to take as much control over their life as they are able to, and if that means helping them end it, so be it.

There is a certain brand of person who simply does not understand the idea of consent, or of considering other people's desires and needs....
 
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Soul Searcher

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Ok, I decided to break away from the avalanche of gay/abortion threads.

One of the issues I support is right for voluntary euthanasia. There are situations when terminally ill or severely injured people might want to die in dignity instead of prolonging their own suffering.

The key word here is voluntary, that means that the only person making decision is the one who is dieing. I believe that people should have that right.

There should be respect for a person's final decision.

I do believe that there should be legal requirements and certain things like lucidity of a person at the time of the request for euthanasia have to be taken into account. However overall people should have right to choose their death, I do think that many people would prefer to die painlessly and peacefully instead of slowly and tortuously


http://www.atheistfoundation.org.au/ve.htm

How about you, what do you people feel about this issue.

I agree though I would not limit it to just that one person. There could be cases where the person is not really capable of making a decision and would need to be made by a family member.
 
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LittleNipper

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Why?


So an all-loving and all-powerful entity gets someone's attention by putting them through unimaginable agony?


Personally, I look forward to the time when I'll go to the Summerlands and see my loved ones again.
Have you ever read the book of JOB? Did JOB go through a lot of sorrow and physical pain? Didn't GOD eventually say something to JOB? Did GOD have JOB's attention? Was JOB listening? Did GOD also use JOB's problems to reach others with wrong mindsets?
Read the book of JOB and then we can talk ---- not before.....
 
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