vision?

[kwanseemun]

Well, I was just sitting in church this morning and I dunno, it was like I got this vision to start up some sort of ministry or something that would integrate Christianity and science. I mean, well I've thought about the two for months now, and it's just been bugging me. I'm a devout Christian (although more moderate/liberal than most), but at the same time, I really love the sciences...almost 100% sure that's what I'll be studying for the rest of my life. But why is it that religion and science always seem at odds with each other? So often, Christians seem to disrespect/hate science and what it has to say, and scientists are often so skeptical of Christians...and most of the time, I even find myself siding with the scientists... I mean, I can understand it, to an extent...but there has to be some way of integrating the two hasn't there? Yet I haven't heard of anything of the sort. Whenever I go around to different communities I look through the ministries that churches have running...they always have music, arts, sports ministries, etc...but I haven't found a single one that is set apart for Christians who are also scientists or interested in science to get together. So I was thinking about it over the summer, and I talked to my friend about it (he's a lot older than me), and he agreed, but then said, "Ok, you're right about that...so why don't you do something about it?" That kinda caught me off guard, but it got me thinking. Then I more or less dropped the subject for a while, because I thought, well what can I do about it? But it came back this morning and I really get the sense that that's what I should do....now the only problem is how? Any thoughts or ideas would be appreciated...

 

[davidshane]

I wouldn't call it a ministry, but there is already the American Scientific Affiliation, "A fellowship of Christians in science." (See asa3.org.) Personally, I would rather work within the scientific societies that already publish our journals than from an outside splinter group.

 

[ScMay]

So often, Christians seem to disrespect/hate science and what it has to say, and scientists are often so skeptical of Christians...

This is generally because the more fundamentalist groups try to twist and distort science to say what they want it to. I don't think this is something inherent in Christianity, I think it says more about how some people think and were raised. Though I am not Christian I wish you luck in your endeavour as if successful it may help to limit this conflict (which I think is harming society in various direct and indirect ways, it helps neither Christians or non-Christians)

 

[billwald]

Religion is metaphysical. Science should be predictive and falsifiable. Religion should provide moral direction for applying the fruits of science.

 

[SuperSaint4GodDBZStyle]

There are two kinds of scientists in this world. There are ones that believe the Bible and the ones that don't believe the Bible. The Christian scientists believe in Creationism such as the first 10 chapters of Genesis. The ones who aren't mostly believe in Evolution which has been disproved several years ago because the theory does not add up to the facts. The problem is not Religion vs. Science. It's Religion vs. Humanism. The Bible and science do go together. "The Bible is not to be treated as a scientific textbook." -qoute from Dr. Ray Rempt, Physicist. "But it does support some of the caims in science." Like God "sits on the circle of the earth." Also Christopher Columbus discovering that the earth was round. I'm currently a biology major in college and I started studying Creation Science last semester. I'm very interested in it and I do use Creation in my personal ministry. I do thank God for showing me truth in His Word and with true science. Did you know that when the theory of evolution was proposed the scientists at that time said that this was a dumb theory. But it was the Christians at that time who accepted it because of a Catholic Priest gave it the "okay". I believe that he was a false prophet and the christians at that time allowed evolution into the schools but I hate that that had happened but it did. Now, we christians need to to take action against the devil's evolution theory and "get the lies out of the textbooks." - quote from Dr. Kent Hovind, Creation Speaker and Evangelist. I do hope that my testimony and info. will be a blessing to you. God bless.

 

[SuperSaint4GodDBZStyle]

Here are some good Creation Science websites...

www.nwcreation.net

www.drdino.com

They have free downloadable videos for Windows Media Player or which ever you use on your computer. nwcreation also has the powerpoint presentations so that you can go along with their lectures. God bless.

 

[ScMay]

There are two kinds of scientists in this world. There are ones that believe the Bible and the ones that don't believe the Bible. The Christian scientists believe in Creationism such as the first 10 chapters of Genesis. The ones who aren't mostly believe in Evolution

Evolution =/= atheism, many 'Christian Scientists' also believe in evolution. It is not even accurate to say Christian scientist, it is a loaded term - more accurate is to call them scientists who also happen to have the religious affiliation of Christian. Much like I think it would be wrong to say 'Buddhist Scientist' or 'Atheist Scientist'

which has been disproved several years ago because the evidence does not add up to the facts.

And the entire scientific community has ignored this why? Its all a big atheist conspiracy against Christians no doubt (forget that many Christians are also scientist who accept evolution...). Oh and NEVER become a doctor, please! You'll never be able to understand microbial resistance to antibiotics without evolution or many other related things for that matter.

The problem is not Religion vs. Science. It's Religion vs. Humanism. The Bible and science do go together. "The Bible is not to be treated as a scientific textbook." -qoute from Dr. Ray Rempt, Physicist. "But it does support some of the caims in science." Like God "sits on the circle of the earth." Also Christopher Columbus discovering that the earth was round.

Yes because the Church and Christianity always said that the Earth was a sphere and not flat!Oh wait no it didn't.... The GREEKS hypothesised that the Earth was a sphere and even predicted its size rather accurately - that all went down the tube when Christianity came. Your bible verse doesn't even imply that the Earth was a sphere, it quite plainly says CIRCLE - circles are flat 2D shapes like squares so otherwise your quote is supporting flat Earth or is inaccurately translated to English.

I'm currently a biology major in college and I started studying Creation Science last semester. I'm very interested in it and I do use Creation in my personal ministry. I do thank God for showing me truth in His Word and with true science.

Creation Science... isn't that an oxymoron?

Did you know that when the theory of evolution was proposed the scientists at that time said that this was a dumb theory. But it was the Christians at that time who accepted it because of a Catholic Priest gave it the "okay".

Well the opposition was understandable, Darwin was proposing a paradigm shift in thinking that is always hard to accept, also a lot of resistance came from religious sources. Haven't heard the comment about who accepted it first but it is possible since Christianity was and still is by far the most common religion in the west, it dwarfs all minorities. Not that this has anything to do with its validity as a scientific theory!!

I believe that he was a false prophet and the christians at that time allowed evolution into the schools but I hate that that had happened but it did. Now, we christians need to to take action against the devil's evolution theory and "get the lies out of the textbooks." - quote from Dr. Kent Hovind, Creation Speaker and Evangelist.

Got any explanation as to why you 'believe' evolution was promoted by false prophets and that it is somehow the devil's theory? Even theological reasons since this thread is mainly for Christians and not atheists like myself.
As for Mr Hovind (I refuse to let the respected title of Dr be degraded by its use by someone who never earned it) - he has been discredited a thousand times over, even by OTHER creationists, though he wont be doing much more Creation speeches or Evangelising from behind bars (Being found guilty of, I think, 58 offences and a possible maximum jail time of over 200 years will do that...)

I do hope that my testimony and info. will be a blessing to you. God bless.

Yes it was, you have shown EXACTLY why the OP's endeavour is needed, and needs to succeed!

 

[Locrian]

But why is it that religion and science always seem at odds with each other?

Everyone assumes this is true, but I'm not sure it actually is. Certainly the loudest voices from the sciences and religion seem to believe that the two don't coexist. However, most scientists are religious. The only areas that I know of that are exceptions are astrophysics and (maybe) specific fields in biology.

Most people have a very poor understanding of what science is and how it operates, so it could be that they feel the two don't mix well due to a misunderstanding. If most scientists mix religion and science, is there really a reason to believe they are at odds?

 

[kwanseemun]

That's more or less what I've been thinking...I guess what I should have said is, why is it that "religious" people and scientists always seem at odds with each other. But there are scientists who are religious, and I can follow their way of thinking so much better than those who are against science because...well, it's generally logical...and that's not a faith issue. Religion and science can go together, I think, if we let it...I don't know, I just think the church needs to be a lot more open-minded to science.

Mr. Kent Hovind, eh...isn't that the Dr. Dino guy? Sorry, I watched a video of him, and I can't really repect his say in the field of science...or in moral issues now for that matter. By the way, I'm leaning strongly towards theistic evolution. Does that make me a non-Christian? I sure hope not...

 

[SuperSaint4GodDBZStyle]

Evolution is not a proven theory. How can life come from nothing? I don't even believe that God uses evolution in his creation. Why would he when Genesis 1 and 2 are implying that he spoke everything into existence. But he created man in his own image. Actually, Dr. Hovind is not a scientist. He is an Evangelist who has a doctor's in Christian Education, but I believe that he claims to one out of faith. He is very knowldeable in science whether he be a scientist or not. He has taught high school science for 15 years. To me, he's good on speaking on Creation. I do continue to pray for his ministry because he has won thousands of people to Christ.

 

[SuperSaint4GodDBZStyle]

Plus Evolution is not a science. It is a philosophy. It is saying that death brought man into the world, but the Bible says that man brought death into the world. I used to believe in some parts of evolution when I was younger such as the dinosaurs living millions of years ago which is not true. But God changed my way of thinking in that area by introducing to me Dr. Hovind, Dr. Ray Rempt, Dr. Donald Chittick, and Dr. Steve Wolfe.

 

[Apollonian]

SuperSaint, for the love of God, quit bringing your controversial soap box into other discussions. The point here is not to start up another evolution debate! There is more to "science" than the ad nauseam, debunk debate about "Christianity vs. Evolution."

That said, to Kwanseemun, I think it is a good idea to start a "Science Group". However, you have to be careful of people who wish to make things controversial rather than actually searching for the truth. Plus, some people have some pretty crazy ideas about what "science" entails.

Lastly, I think it is important to note that the battle between Religion and Science which was emphasized in the Modern era is dieing out. The trouble that you see isn't so much that Christians are skeptical of science but rather people in general are skeptical of science (and Religion along with it). After seeing science and technology grow to the point where we have been destroying our atmosphere, poisoning our food, and causing countless mistakes in the human way of life...people are beginning to question whether science really holds any salvation at all, yet they don't necessarily turn to religion either.

I think the goal of a science group would be to look at trying to find those aspects of science which can inform us about the truth of the world we live in (hard science: physics, chemistry, etc) and about ourselves (soft science: psychology, sociology, etc).

 

[SuperSaint4GodDBZStyle]

I'm sorry Apollo for boring you with the Creation/Evolution Debate. But Evolution is of the devil and we Christians are supposed to be "the salt of earth." We are supposed to make war with the enemy. But I do like science and I like to discuss in the threads that I know more about such as Biology and Microbiology. I will slow down if you want me to on the controversial issue if you'd like, but if need calls I'm going to if it will lead someone to Christ if God puts it on my heart to do so.

 

[SuperSaint4GodDBZStyle]

Kwanseemun I do hope that God let's you use Science in your church's ministry. I'm praying that God do the same in my own church family. But do be aware of the devil's worker's lies.

 

[Locrian]

Mr. Kent Hovind, eh...isn't that the Dr. Dino guy? Sorry, I watched a video of him, and I can't really repect his say in the field of science...or in moral issues now for that matter.

I'm sure he is strongly disagreeing with you... from federal prison...

 

[SuperSaint4GodDBZStyle]

I agree Locrian. But he went to prison because of tax evation. He believes that christians shouldn't pay taxes. I love Dr. Hovind and I agree with most of his topics but not all. We do have to pay taxes, but the progressive income tax idea comes from Carl Marx, the guy who made up Communism. The progressive income tax was and is contrary to God's way of taxes. God said that and i'm paraphrasing that the rich man shall pay no more and the poor shall pay no less than a half a shekel. This is regardless of how much money you made. I got this information from a website Dr. Hovind suggested as one of his sources.
www.wallbuilders.com

 

[SuperSaint4GodDBZStyle]

Also this is the main site where I got this information.

www.wallbuilders.com/resources/search/detail.php?ResourceID=141

 

[SuperSaint4GodDBZStyle]

I do know that the Evolutionists that he debates against are glad he's in prison. He has gotten out of their hair. I certainly know that the devil is glad. But Dr. Hovind will be doing a different ministry now... a prison ministry. He's won thousands to Christ and he won't stop.

 

[SuperSaint4GodDBZStyle]

Another thing is that I don't see how some other Christians don't like him at all. They say he's a false prophet but they don't give me any reasons why he's a false prophet. I don't see him as a false prophet at all.

 

[kwanseemun]

Sorry, I do realize this is completely off topic, but that's ridiculous. I don't mean to bash what you're saying or anything, supersaint, but Jesus tells us to obey the law, AND says (quite obviously) pay your taxes. Give to Caesar what is his, and to God what belongs to Him. Just because we're Christian doesn't mean we're exempt from the law and obedience to authority. And just because it was formulated by a Communist doesn't mean it's bad...I hate when Christians think that way. Who says that Christians have to be "right-wing" anyway?

I do know that the Evolutionists that he debates against are glad he's in prison.

Of course. It's ridiculously frustrating to debate someone who doesn't realize that you have to be able to back up your statements with valid proof.
I don't like the guy and I'm a Christian...I don't know about him being a "false prophet," but his arguments and proofs (from what i've seen) are either too irrelevant to refute or have been proven wrong time and time again.