Views on Hell and the problem with punishment

[GoldenBoy89]

No, God gave man the free will to choose. Whether you like that or not, that's how it is, you only have two choices - hell or heaven.

Then He told man to only choose one option or suffer the eternal consequences. Gee... that sure is some freedom He gave us there.

There is no such thing as a middle ground, you cannot sit on the fence when it comes to God.

I'm not on the fence. I will change my mind when evidence comes along to change it. So far you have shown 0 evidence for the existence of this being that you want me to bow down to.

How does that even make sense to equate God with a wild lunatic gunman?
Did God make you choose the devil? NO. God gave YOU the free will to choose Him or the devil.

"Love me or suffer the eternal consequences" is basically the message I get from Christians about their god. Maybe He's not a gunman but that's because He doesn't need a gun to kill you. You still But in the end you still operate under the fear of eternal torment and torture. I find it disgusting and quite a bit worrisome that Christians don't see anything wrong with this.

God does NOT even come close to a gunman for one reason, He does NOT kill unbelievers period.

No. He's much worse. The gunman can only harm you in this, one limited time span. God will torture you for ever and ever until the end of time. And there's no appeals process either.

There are TWO Kingdoms, Heaven or HELL, it's up to each individual to choose either of the two.

Here we go with the absolutes again... Here's a fun fact for you. There is only one reality and that is the one we are in right now. When we die, that is the end of reality for us. And that's it. Call it pointless, cruel, call it what you will but that's reality.

The blame would lay solely on the person if they chose hell over heaven.

And who would be so stupid to do that?

I think you're thinking that God is a set of "religious" rules, you need to instead see it as a relationship.

A relationship with an invisible being that only you can hear talking to you... I think there's a name for that condition already.

I won't sit here and argue, it seems you are angry with God.

With a god that does not seem to exist? Hardly.

So yea I don't buy into the whole facade that you're an atheist as your replies say otherwise.

Then you must not know what an atheist is.

EDIT: In the end why would it matter if in fact you don't believe? Why does the notion of a hell bother you so much? Could it be because you know deep down who you're serving???

You're right. In the end it wont matter when we both end up decaying in the ground because that is the reality awaiting us all in the end.

 

[GoldenBoy89]

It is a choice, there are two choices, heaven or hell.
God even says in HIS Word that one has to eventually make a stand.

I've made my stand. I say the two places don't exist and I don't expect to end up in either one.

 

[Skavau]

An objection to your ideology is not a personal objection to the characters contained within it.

 

[Freodin]

Breathing in the wrong way is an offense to God. Anything that a human being can imagine will at some point be used by a human being as "an offense to God".

Believers have managed to proclaim the idea of a unimaginable God of ultimate love... and present him as a spiteful, mean, small-minded bully... just like they are.

Well, Kristin is correct here: I don't care. This God doesn't exist, like all other gods. He/She/It cannot touch me... regardless of what its pandering adherents claim.


I am just worried about said pandering adherents. Many of them are just loud-moths... but we have seen what can happen when these people get the power to fulfil their fantasies.

 

[GoldenBoy89]

I don't follow God out of fear, I choose to follow God... nice try though. I done followed the devil in my past before, so I oughta know who is worthy of praise and worship - GOD.

You "choose" to follow God because the only other option is eternal punishment. That is operating out of fear. Most people find using fear to force change to be disgusting. We call that terrorism.

 

[GrimKingGrim]

No you didn't I clearly said I chose to worship Him, but nice try though. Here is a COOKIE!

Wouldn't he be so mad that you chose the Devil before him first? Why was he your second choice?

Looks like you got some 'splainin' to do when you meet him huh?

 

[GoldenBoy89]

It's obscene only because you wish to live a life of sin, and because you want so bad to be your own god you hate the one true God.
Whether you like it or not, there are only two choice, period.

I can't answer for Archaeopterix but I will say that I don't believe in sins and I don't believe anybody is a "sinner." If you think atheist have no morals then that is just one more thing you don't know about atheism. Atheist don't believe in gods. It would be completely ridiculous to say that an atheist wants to be "his own god" when atheist are by definition, people who don't believe gods exist.

I mean.... how much more wrong can you be?

 

[toLiJC]

honestly, the hell of (the) afflictions in this world is enough for all the time's infinity, the more than the hitherto existing afflictions is of the devil

Blessings

 

[Wryetui]

You just really don't understand what it means to not believe in something to be real. Like, you really don't get it, do you?

To willingly deny God would mean to know that God exists and then say that He does not. I don't know that any gods exist. They have never been shown to be real beings that actually exist like you and I do. There are people who believe they do and there are people who do not believe that gods really exist in reality. I am of the ones who remains unconvinced of the existence of gods. Not just your god, but all gods/goddesses and any kind of deity.

This is the thing, friend. You do deny God by denying the Bible, the Bible is His word, God inspirated the autors of the books that now are in the Bible to let humanity know that there is a God who created them, why He created them, why He did everything and what should we do. Now, by saying you don't believe in God you say that you don't believe the Bible that is His word, you call the prophets He inspired liars or insane and you refuse to believe in Him and what the Bible says. Aren't you willingly denying God?

 

[Kristin E]

Wouldn't he be so mad that you chose the Devil before him first? Why was he your second choice?

Looks like you got some 'splainin' to do when you meet him huh?

Actually I chose God first, BUT my actions in my teen years were not good. I had a fallen away of sorts, but in the end Gods promise to forgive me remained.

 

[Kristin E]

You "choose" to follow God because the only other option is eternal punishment. That is operating out of fear. Most people find using fear to force change to be disgusting. We call that terrorism.

No i choose to follow God because of what He's done for me, AND because I love Him. In fact I deserve to go to hell, but because He's so graceful and merciful I won't go to hell.

 

[Skavau]

This is the thing, friend. You do deny God by denying the Bible, the Bible is His word, God inspirated the autors of the books that now are in the Bible to let humanity know that there is a God who created them, why He created them, why He did everything and what should we do. Now, by saying you don't believe in God you say that you don't believe the Bible that is His word, you call the prophets He inspired liars or insane and you refuse to believe in Him and what the Bible says. Aren't you willingly denying God?

He's denying the claim that God exists as being true or likely.

 

[Kristin E]

I've made my stand. I say the two places don't exist and I don't expect to end up in either one.

You will, unfortunately that place is hell.

 

[Freodin]

You will, unfortunately that place is hell.

I would love to know who this is meant to affect anything.

We don't believe that stuff, remember, and we think that you are a rather unpleasent character if you keep peddling it to us.

So why would we ever listen to you?

 

[GoldenBoy89]

This is the thing, friend. You do deny God by denying the Bible, the Bible is His word, God inspirated the autors of the books that now are in the Bible to let humanity know that there is a God who created them, why He created them, why He did everything and what should we do.

You are right. I do deny the bible is the "word of God" mainly because I think a god who can do anything wouldn't choose to communicate through such an inefficient method like telling some nameless people, 25 to 30 centuries ago to "write this down, and pass it on." Why not just talk to us straight? It really would go a long way in giving the story a little more credibility if it didn't come from the minds and mouths of fallible, corrupted men but instead directly from God. Why does He need people to speak for Him?

Now, by saying you don't believe in God you say that you don't believe the Bible that is His word,

Right. I don't believe that beings I don't believe exist have ever communicated with humans in any way at any point in history. The bible is the work of men and, it's not even all that good. The bible should have been written by Mark Twain. THAT would be a book worth reading.

you call the prophets He inspired liars or insane and you refuse to believe in Him and what the Bible says. Aren't you willingly denying God?

I believe the authors of the bible, being the only people who could read and write at the time, were very smart and knew exactly what they were doing. They were creating a basic system of ethics and law and order when they wrote the bible. But people wont just do as they are told. They need either a cookie when they're good or a punishment when they are bad. This is where the heaven/hell concept comes in real handy. They are the ultimate reward/punishment and are predicated on the fear of death that we all have. That's gonna motivate a lot of people to do what you want them to do.

 

[GrimKingGrim]

Actually I chose God first, BUT my actions in my teen years were not good. I had a fallen away of sorts, but in the end Gods promise to forgive me remained.

See there goes the guilt. You choose to carry guilt from childhood as means to shame yourself as an adult. It's madness. And kind of sad. I was very good at stealing as a kid and teen. I don't like that fact but it is what it is. Do I think I should be locked away and tortured because my incomplete, immature child mind caused me to do things I at the time thought it was "cool" to do?

Well Considering how much I've stolen... yes. (It's a joke, no)

But I don't feel guilt about it because it's all water under the bridge and I've since matured and reflected on that and become better because of it. I don't shoulder needless guilt around because it's just unnecessary to my progress as a person.

You don't need a god to forgive you, do you forgive you?

 

[GoldenBoy89]

You will, unfortunately that place is hell.

And how do you know this?

Wait... don't tell me.. The bible sez so!

 

[Kristin E]

I would love to know who this is meant to affect anything.

We don't believe that stuff, remember, and we think that you are a rather unpleasent character if you keep peddling it to us.

So why would we ever listen to you?

I don't really care what you think , after all since you deny my Father why should I listen to you?

 

[Skavau]

I don't really care what you think , after all since you deny my Father why should I listen to you?

That's not a very useful attitude to have if you're trying to proselytize.

 

[Kristin E]

And how do you know this?

Wait... don't tell me.. The bible sez so!

There's only two choices... Don't serve God, then you serve the devil.