Views of Evolution Depend on Knowledge

[durangodawood]

Hey if we just stopped doing science, political gridlock and inertia would go away!

 

[juvenissun]

No, I don't. I'd also prefer it if you didn't make up stories about me just to make yourself feel better.

I don't feel good by saying that. I feel sad.

Knowledge is good. But it does not solve human problem. It does not solve most science problems either. The fatal situation is: except knowledge, you don't have an alternative to worship. That is very sad.

If you do not agree, then tell me what do you worship?

 

[juvenissun]

What do you mean by the word "worship"?
Because in the traditional definition of that word, that statement doesn't make any sense to me.

Look up the definition in any dictionary. Take the word "god" out of the definition and keep every other words. That is what I meant by worship to you, and to people who do not recognize God.

If I said that you worship knowledge, then simply replace the word god in the definition by knowledge.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Look up the definition in any dictionary. Take the word "god" out of the definition and keep every other words. That is what I meant by worship to you, and to people who do not recognize God.

If I said that you worship knowledge, then simply replace the word god in the definition by knowledge.

Then you would be horribly wrong and also projecting.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

You are so close to the answer I'm driving at, but you keep swerving off the road!

Perhaps if you rephrase the question I'll have a clearer sense of what you are seeking.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Perhaps if you rephrase the question I'll have a clearer sense of what you are seeking.

I'll just tell you the answer straight: it's the government, not science, who are at fault for virtually all of the complaints you lie at the feet of science. Especially your lake conundrum.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

I'll just tell you the answer straight: it's the government, not science, who are at fault for virtually all of the complaints you lie at the feet of science. Especially your lake conundrum.

Of course. That's why I would engage with the Mayor and not the scientists.

 

[DogmaHunter]

Logical conclusions are hardly emotional.

But you said you were "concerned" with the logical consequences.
I took that to mean that you don't "like" the implications (that you consider logical).

So this might be a good opportunity for you to explain exactly what you meant by that statement.

 

[DogmaHunter]

Penguins do some amazing 'flying' under water using their 'wings'

It's called swimming.

Ostriches use their wings defensively and as balancers when running.

Yes. So not for "flying straight and level" or "aerial acrobatics", like you previously claimed that wings were "designed" for.

 

[DogmaHunter]

The road of evolutionary study leads to a giant rabbit hole.

More meaningless oneliners that seem to have as only goal: running away from honest discussion.

 

[DogmaHunter]

I thought evolutionary changes weren't really designed,
but happen accidently,
and if useful might give an advantage,
that might be passed on.

Note the quotes around the word "designed".

 

[DogmaHunter]

Look up the definition in any dictionary. Take the word "god" out of the definition and keep every other words. That is what I meant by worship to you, and to people who do not recognize God.

If I said that you worship knowledge, then simply replace the word god in the definition by knowledge.

noun
1.
reverent honor and homage paid to God or a sacred personage, or to any object regarded as sacred.
2.
formal or ceremonious rendering of such honor and homage:
They attended worship this morning.
3.
adoring reverence or regard:
excessive worship of business success.
4.
the object of adoring reverence or regard.
5.
(initial capital letter) British. a title of honor used in addressing or mentioning certain magistrates and others of high rank or station (usually preceded by Your, His, or Her).
verb (used with object), worshiped, worshiping or (especially British) worshipped, worshipping.
6.
to render religious reverence and homage to.
7.
to feel an adoring reverence or regard for (any person or thing).
verb (used without object), worshiped, worshiping or (especially British) worshipped, worshipping.
8.
to render religious reverence and homage, as to a deity.
9.
to attend services of divine worship.
10.
to feel an adoring reverence or regard.



None of this makes any sense to me when used in the phrase "you worship knowledge"

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Of course. That's why I would engage with the Mayor and not the scientists.

Except you are blaming all of the problems on scientists, not the government though, when it is clearly the government who is at fault.

 

[Bugeyedcreepy]

like birds wings are designed not only to fly 'straight and level' but to do some pretty complicated aerial acrobatics as well.

...and Emus? What are Emu wings used for?

so, just to be a little persistent, have we come up with a purposeful design for the Emu wing yet?

 

[juvenissun]

noun
1.
reverent honor and homage paid to God or a sacred personage, or to any object regarded as sacred.

None of this makes any sense to me when used in the phrase "you worship knowledge"

Replace God with Knowledge. It makes sense:

reverent honor and homage paid to Knowledge, regarded as sacred.

 

[Ophiolite]

Replace God with Knowledge. It makes sense:

reverent honor and homage paid to Knowledge, regarded as sacred.

I speak only for myself, but I don't honour knowledge, I actively question and challenge it, probe it and analyse it. Since I am aware that knowledge may be uncertain, it needs to be tested, revised, refuted, qualified, validated......whatever. But honour, no. I would certainly honour those who have done much to further our knowledge; I would honour insitutions that seek to gather, collate and disseminate knowledge; but I would not honour knowledge itself. Consequently, I can state with confidence that I do not worship knowledge.

 

[DogmaHunter]

Replace God with Knowledge. It makes sense:

reverent honor and homage paid to Knowledge, regarded as sacred.

yeah, that's what doesn't make sense to me.

I mean…. Do I value knowledge? Sure... Don't you?
I don't know what you try to accomplish by calling it "worship".

So try to explain clearly…
Consider these two statements:

"I value knowledge"
and
"I worship knowledge"

What is the practical difference?

 

[juvenissun]

I speak only for myself, but I don't honour knowledge, I actively question and challenge it, probe it and analyse it. Since I am aware that knowledge may be uncertain, it needs to be tested, revised, refuted, qualified, validated......whatever. But honour, no. I would certainly honour those who have done much to further our knowledge; I would honour insitutions that seek to gather, collate and disseminate knowledge; but I would not honour knowledge itself. Consequently, I can state with confidence that I do not worship knowledge.

That is the way of honoring. You look at the process very high, or the highest.

 

[juvenissun]

yeah, that's what doesn't make sense to me.

I mean…. Do I value knowledge? Sure... Don't you?
I don't know what you try to accomplish by calling it "worship".

So try to explain clearly…
Consider these two statements:

"I value knowledge"
and
"I worship knowledge"

What is the practical difference?

I do not value human knowledge. It is good, but has low value.

 

[Ophiolite]

That is the way of honoring. You look at the process very high, or the highest.

Clearly, while we appear to be speaking the same language, you are using words to mean something that is conflict with any meaning I would use and that contradicts dictionary definitions, colloquial usage and academic expression. I won't attempt to guess at your motives for such an egregious approach, but it does make your views look unreliable.

I agree that I value the process of acquiring and testing knowledge. That is not the same as worshipping the process, or worshipping the resultant product. I also value a lightly grilled salmon coated with a cajun sauce, served with roast potatoes and asparagus tips, accompanied by a chilled chardonnay. I don't worship those either, though I come closer to worship in that case than I do in the case of knowledge.

Perhaps if you spent more time analysing why this is so important to you, rather than making incorrect judgements of other people's motivations, you might make some progress.

I do not value human knowledge. It is good, but has low value.

The corollary of that is that you think ignorance is an OK thing.