Viewing the sick and poor as beggars and thieves...

[Autumnleaf]

Vlad the Impaler viewed the sick and poor as such. He invited the sick and poor to a feast where he filled the banquet hall with them and then burned the building down.

Was he merely a cruel nutter or is there something useful to be taken away from this historical event?

Discuss.

 

[cantata]

Was he merely a cruel nutter or is there something useful to be taken away from this historical event?

Maybe both. He was a cruel nutter, and the useful thing we should take away from this historical event is that you probably shouldn't go to a feast that was organised by someone called Vlad the Impaler.

 

[quatona]

Vlad the Impaler viewed the sick and poor as such. He invited the sick and poor to a feast where he filled the banquet hall with them and then burned the building down.

Was he merely a cruel nutter or is there something useful to be taken away from this historical event?

That if we view the sick and poor as beggars and thieves we should view the rich and healthy as murderers and torturers?

 

[Autumnleaf]

That if we view the sick and poor as beggars and thieves we should view the rich and healthy as murderers and torturers?

As a ruler Vlad viewed the poor and sick as undesirable drains on society so he got rid of some of them. If you asked Vlad I would think he would say the rich and healthy are the backbone of society, so long as they followed his laws. If they got out of line they ended up skewered.

 

[craigerNY]

Maybe both. He was a cruel nutter, and the useful thing we should take away from this historical event is that you probably shouldn't go to a feast that was organised by someone called Vlad the Impaler.

Oh man I am canceling Friday's dinner plans. "Impaler" why didn't I catch that on the invite?

 

[wanderingone]

As a ruler Vlad viewed the poor and sick as undesirable drains on society so he got rid of some of them. If you asked Vlad I would think he would say the rich and healthy are the backbone of society, so long as they followed his laws. If they got out of line they ended up skewered.

Vlad the Impaler and many others considered the poor who didn't work to be a drain, - the rest of them they considered workhorses to maintain their quality of living, and found those workhorses to be easily replaced. I don't think things have changed all that much. It's just easier to find more drawn out methods of insuring the poor have a shorter life span than others.

what can we learn from Vlad the impaler.. the good old days weren't all that good.

 

[jayem]

As a ruler Vlad viewed the poor and sick as undesirable drains on society so he got rid of some of them.

But obviously, that's not the Christian view (or that of any of the Abrahamic faiths.) Jesus taught it was a moral obligation to assist the poor and care for the sick. But the Nazi's certainly would have agreed with Vlad. Which was why Hitler (in his private remarks) thought Christianity was meek, flabby, and a religion for weaklings.

"Christianity is a rebellion against natural law, a protest against nature. Taken to its logical extreme, Christianity would mean the systematic cultivation of the human failure." ---Oct., 1941

http://answers.org/apologetics/hitquote.html

 

[tulc]

So if you get two invitations to parties on the same day, I'd go with "Vlad the Cake Maker" over "Vlad the Impaler".
tulc(just sayn')

 

[PsychMJC]

So if you get two invitations to parties on the same day, I'd go with "Vlad the Cake Maker" over "Vlad the Impaler".
tulc(just sayn')

Vlad The Cake Maker.. sounds like a new show on Bravo or something

 

[quatona]

As a ruler Vlad viewed the poor and sick as undesirable drains on society so he got rid of some of them. If you asked Vlad I would think he would say the rich and healthy are the backbone of society, so long as they followed his laws.

So?
Do you think I should agree with it just because this Vlad guy thought so?
If you think there´s something to learn from it - other than that he apparently had strong sociopathic tendencies - spell it out.

 

[eMesreveR]

Vlad was wrong. See: Herbert J. Gans. The Uses of Poverty: The Poor Pay All.

http://www.sociology.org.uk/as4p3.pdf

the thesis being that poverty wouldn't exist if SOMEONE didn't benefit from it. E.G. America wouldn't be as powerful as it is if we didn't have south America, Africa, and China to get cheap labor and to sell weapons to and otherwise exploit in some way shape or form

of course the model works domestically as well, poor people are the garbagemen, the janitors, the cashiers...

if you ever want something done, and you need the ability of a human without wanting to treat it like a human, poor people are the way to go

what a terrible world

 

[Autumnleaf]

Vlad was wrong. See: Herbert J. Gans. The Uses of Poverty: The Poor Pay All.

http://www.sociology.org.uk/as4p3.pdf

the thesis being that poverty wouldn't exist if SOMEONE didn't benefit from it. E.G. America wouldn't be as powerful as it is if we didn't have south America, Africa, and China to get cheap labor and to sell weapons to and otherwise exploit in some way shape or form

of course the model works domestically as well, poor people are the garbagemen, the janitors, the cashiers...

if you ever want something done, and you need the ability of a human without wanting to treat it like a human, poor people are the way to go

what a terrible world

People who are poor end up in poverty. If we killed all the wealthy people tomorrow it wouldn't make poor people more wealthy or better able to make a decent living. The thesis you mention is fatally flawed. I'm sure it feels good to blame someone else for the evils of this world, especially rich people. This is why Columbo gets such rave reviews. He always sticks it to those rich jerks who think they know it all and won't get caught...

The fact is, it is the wealthy people who parcel out jobs to the rest of us. If it wasn't for Bill Gates nobody would be working at Microsoft. If it wasn't for Sam Walton everybody working at Walmart wouldn't have a job there. If it wasn't for the wealthy mom and pop business people their employees would not have jobs. You can rag about how a cashier is poor but at least they have a job so they can feed themselves because of a wealthy person who has a business for them to work at.

 

[SallyNow]

As a ruler Vlad viewed the poor and sick as undesirable drains on society so he got rid of some of them. If you asked Vlad I would think he would say the rich and healthy are the backbone of society, so long as they followed his laws. If they got out of line they ended up skewered.

Then Vlad would be a pretty ignorant guy, not realizing that the very people he burned were in fact the people who help build his empire.

Vlad seems to have viewed people as disposable. The rich can get poor; the healthy can get sick.

The average worker is the backbone of society. A rich person can be as easily replaced as a worker on a factory line. Perhaps the logistics are a little more complicated, but there is always another Bill Gates or Sam Walton waiting in the wings. With large corporations the CEO's can be replaced with little difference to the overall company.

The idea that being rich is always (or even often) an indicator of one's goodness, importance, or usefulness is one that has been proven incorrect.

A poor nun can be kinder and more useful than in individual people's lives than any CEO.

 

[Autumnleaf]

Then Vlad would be a pretty ignorant guy, not realizing that the very people he burned were in fact the people who help build his empire.

Vlad seems to have viewed people as disposable. The rich can get poor; the healthy can get sick.

The average worker is the backbone of society. A rich person can be as easily replaced as a worker on a factory line. Perhaps the logistics are a little more complicated, but there is always another Bill Gates or Sam Walton waiting in the wings. With large corporations the CEO's can be replaced with little difference to the overall company.

The average worker is important to society so long as he/she is working. Once they can't work they end up taking resources from the working members of society without putting back. This is a drain. Vlad's methods were barbaric but he did solve a problem quickly and cheaply.

The idea that being rich is always (or even often) an indicator of one's goodness, importance, or usefulness is one that has been proven incorrect.

A poor nun can be kinder and more useful than in individual people's lives than any CEO.

A nun can't employ thousands of people. A CEO can. You can't replace a good CEO with a factory worker and expect them to run the company anymore than you can replace a medical doctor with a nurses aid and expect them to be competent enough to operate on you in open heart surgery. There are actual reasons why some people get paid more than others. Some people have skills or abilities that make them more valuable to society than others which is why they are better compensated. Now you know why dishwashers get paid less than doctors.

 

[cantata]

A nun can't employ thousands of people. A CEO can. You can't replace a good CEO with a factory worker and expect them to run the company anymore than you can replace a medical doctor with a nurses aid and expect them to be competent enough to operate on you in open heart surgery. There are actual reasons why some people get paid more than others. Some people have skills or abilities that make them more valuable to society than others which is why they are better compensated. Now you know why dishwashers get paid less than doctors.

So why do doctors get paid less than footballers?

Mere fame is not an indicator of usefulness.

 

[Autumnleaf]

So why do doctors get paid less than footballers?

Mere fame is not an indicator of usefulness.

Because footballers are valued more by society.

 

[Worcester Beacon]

As a disabled person I must remember to avoid any invites and greetings that run something like:

'Please come to my BBQ

Warm Greetings Vlad!'

 

[cantata]

Because footballers are valued more by society.

The fact that they are perceived as more valuable does not actually make them more valuable.

 

[Axioma]

I've heard that story retold a lot of ways - sometimes Vlad kills poor people, sometimes it's his political enemies, sometimes it's corrupt officials. Strangely enough, his reputation is a lot worse in western Europe than it is in eastern Europe.

 

[quatona]

Yes, that is exactly what I think you should do.

Heaven forbid you actually critically think on your own and come up with something original.

Well, I did, but you answered "but Vlad would say...".

I'm not one of your stu dents who you can answer questions with questions with in the hope that I will think such tactics are original.

I answered your question twice.