Vicsious Cyclying, mabye OCD or something organic

[OptimisticSmile]

I recently started doubting my salvation and in a way that was abnormal and self destructive as my pastor calls it. I could not focus on anything else and could not sleep and throught the day i could not stay in one place but would compulsively drive to one place only to soon drive somewhere else at random. i ended up dropping a college course as a result and I started to have the thought of "I cant go on living like this" . i know that this is not typical behavior of the unsaved yet it still doesnt make me feel better to think that.

I read a book on assurence and I see how apsects about me and my past make it particualarly difficult for me to have assurence.

For instance my first proffession of faith was at age 6 and the earlier a child is saved the more likely that child is to struggle with assurence. age 9 I was baptized and i remember going to my mother crying once thinking I had commited the unpardonable sin and taken communion unworthily. Not that there was any reason for me to think that but that I had heard what the bible said and thought what if.

secondly I grew up with few freinds and struggled with being painfully shy and socially anxious. Because I had this struggle and it stayed with me despite my prayer i figured I must be lost and also I had the false belief that because God gives us eternal life in heaven, if we ever were dissatisfied or depressed then we must be lost because after all we have Heaven to look foreward to and a relationship with God.

thirdly during my teen years the preeching in my church was very convicting and harsh which sometimes creates doubts. I alwasy thought that assurence and salvation went hand in hand and so I figured if i didnt have assurence then I must be lost.

fouthly i am not very emotional and i have a tendency to be bothered by that and think something is wrong with me, it makes me wonder if I really love God because im not emotional about God or anything else really.

fifthly In the past few months that ive had a christian walk with some assurence I was always doubting my motives and intentions in everything i did. even when i felt my heart was right id always second guess my self. and in times where i thought God was speaking to me id wonder if it were just me confusing my God's voice with my own thoughts.



God has done some amazing things during my time of doubt and used me , (I went on a mission trip half the world away). yet i still doubt my salvation and I downgrade any assurence he seems to give me. Its a vicisous cycle that I cant escape and its brought my spiritual life and life in general to a screeching hault.

I read in the book on assurence that there are some people who are unable to accept assurence of their salvation for psychological and organic reasons. I read about a hymn writer named William Cowper who I can relate to so much who had lifelong struggles with assurence and even died without assurence.

heres an example of my thinking pattern
Me:I dont think i love God, How do I know

Gods word: if you love me then you will keep my commandments

Me: I do keep the commandments and live a life according to the bible

Me again: but am I doing that in my own strength, do i keep the commandments out of a fear of God rather than a genuine love and desire to please him.

see how that becomes a cycle

heres another example
I prayed for God to use me and for the salvation of my freinds freind who was a witch when we were praying together one night.It was the first night in a long time we had prayed together and I was wrestling with wether or not to go pray with her. I had a freind that encouraged me to go and that night my freinds freind showed up at prayer with us and I said a prayer outloud for her. my freind called me the next day and said "wow Chris God really spoke through you last night , you had such boldness, my she reacted in an encouraging way"

I felt assured for a few seconds, God had used me as I prayed, but then I thought but God sometimes uses unsaved people.

on the plane to my mission trip I kept telling myself God wants me here thats why the money came in for the trip, thats why a random stranger gave me 120 dollars and a word of encouragment the day before the trip, God wants me here otherwise I would not be here so I must be called. Sadly while i did not doubt that God wanted me there and I had heard his voice correctly when I felt him calling me there I still throughout the trip doubted My salvation and wether or not I have genuine faith.

im like an isrealite and im like doubting thomas and God has been doing really awsome stuff and showing himself in my life yet i continue to have doubts and an abscence of assurence. its been a lifelong struggle and I hope that like Thomas I will not overcome it when i am face to face with Jesus I want to be excited to see Jesus not nervous and anxious and in fear. I continue to believe in something that makes me miserable . if I just let go of my belief in hell then my problem of assurence would be fixed but because I believe in hell and the bible I could never deny hells exhistance.

anyone relate on this or have any input.

 

[gracealone]

HI Optimistic Smile,
You sound like you have pretty typical,"religious OCD". You really need to go see a Psychologist though in order to have this confirmed. The fact that you had those fears at the age of 9 yrs. old of committing the unpardonable sin is very telling.
The things and thoughts that you wrote about are very similar and sometimes exactly the same as many of us on this OCD board have experienced. They are very painful.... believe me I know.
Trust me when I tell you that if you weren't a Christian these thoughts would not trouble you at all. Because you are a Christian, because you love the Lord, because you desperately want to serve and please him and because you have OCD are all the reasons that you are in such agony from these obsessional thoughts.
I am what's called a pure "O" OCD sufferer. I understand the vicious cycle you spoke of. OCD will attack whatever is dearest to you.
Here's what you need to do. See a professional Psychologist, be completely open with them just like you have here. Or go to your GP and tell them that you think you may have OCD.. again tell them all that you've told us here. You may need to go on meds. to get your brain chemistry adjusted... You likely need more serotonin. The meds. will help you learn how to cope with the obsessional thoughts. You will need to learn ho to do exposure/response thereapy. Basically you will learn to just "let the thoughts be there", and not give them the attention they demand. This is how obsessional OCD is best fought. I know it's the exact opposite of what you feel you must do, which is to fight the thoughts, debate with them, try to solve them or prove them wrong, but doing those things will only cause the thoughts to become more imbedded in your brain and your anxiety center, (which is in hyperdrive right now), will latch onto them and cause you a great deal of agony.
Your Pastor is probably a wonderful man and wants to help you but this is something that is best helped by a physician. It is a real disorder... not a spiritual matter or a lack of faith.
Hang in there buddy... and please go get help, you won't regret it.
GOD Bless YOU,
Mitzi

 

[OptimisticSmile]

sometimes I feel that if I had assurence id feel afraid that I had found false assurence. Ahhh its so hard. its like I cant bring myself to accept assurence

at first I was afraid to even look into Gods word out of fear of losing my faith and rejecting it but as ive gotten better control ive gotten into the word again but it usually discourages me because I pick out things and apply them to me like anytime Jesus is scolding someone for not having faith or scolding the pharasees. I also read the promises of God but then tell myself well if im not really saved they dont apply to me so my hope in them might be in vain.

one day I went down to a dock and wrote down all my sins and burnt them and threw the ashes in the water to symbolise them being forgotten. i then opened my bible and read at random and read where Jesus was telling someone they had no faith and I felt awful and thught "jesus is telling me I have no faith"

im not sure medications are a good option right now . a few weeks ago they would have been but now i can at least sleep at night and focus my attention on other things at times. My brother was on Meds and at one time when he had some religious OCD and depression and they had awful side effects and made his mind go blank. what id like to do is read up more on assurence and the psychological and organic causes for lacking it.

ive concluded that this struggle in alot of ways reminds me of my struggle with being painfully shy and socially anxious which I have overcome and until i started doubting I attributed to Christ.

I conclude that since something normal like making freinds and socializing was so difficult for me then something normal to the christian life such as assurence of salvation may also be hard for me.

i once got a date with a girl and then spent the next week in anticipation obssessing over it anxiously and could barely eat and sleep. It was just a first date , hanging out with a new freind, yet for me it was a dreadful thing.

 

[gracealone]

Hi OPS,
I'm sorry your brother had the side effects with meds. A lot of side effects get better with time and also for many of us it takes a trial of several different meds. to find the right one. Meds. take any where from 4 to 6 weeks to fully kick in.
You can, if you want to, try some natural meds. like St. Johns Wort, but again it would take quite some time to kick in. It's best not to do anything, though, without a Dr.s expert advice.
I was terrified of meds., (of course I was, I have OCD), but when the disorder begins to effect your daily life it's time to get help.
What you are doing right now... all this trying to solve these doubtful thoughts, trying to find a way to make them go away permanently is only reinforcing the thoughts in your brain.
The OCD brain doesn't work in the same way that other people's brains do. There is a problem in the functioning of the Amygdala, (anxiety center). Your fight or flight reaction is on hyper drive and it will take nearly any random thought that you should normally be able to dismiss, grab it and use it to make you miserable.
You need to learn about exposure/response therapy.
I am not going to offer you any reassurance about your doubting thoughts, believe it or not this is not what you need right now.
You are a wonderful young man who loves the Lord and just happens to have OCD. What you are experiencing is called "religious OCD". You have an affliction, not a spiritual problem.
Exposure/response therapy will teach you to "just let the thoughts be there", not to give them the attention that they are demanding. Treating OCD is a paradox. Here we have these awful irrational thoughts coming into our brain and our instinct tells us to fight them, solve them, debate with them etc. When we do that we are giving them a sort of megaphone quality. Then our anxiety center says... OH NO!! this must be terribly important and all the nausea, terror & trembling, that our anxiety center can produce begins to take over our bodies.
No amount of debating, or reading reassuring things, or asking people if they think you are really a Christian will make these thoughts stop.. those things will keep them coming on strong.
I'm glad you are still reading your Bible. The reason that this causes you pain right now is that it creates the spiking thoughts when you are reading. Try to keep on reading and just let the thoughts be there .. see them like a dead leaf floating past you on a stream. Let them come and let them go. It takes patience, practice, and above all perseverance to live with OCD. It can be done.. but it's best to get professional help in order to begin healing.
I'll keep on praying for you buddy.
IN HIM,
Mitzi

 

[OptimisticSmile]

i was wondering if i ever had OCD that was not religious in nature growing up. I can pinpoint certain thoughts that seem OCD but they werent something that reoccured often or caused tremendous anxiety. everyone has ocd thoughts from time to time.

once as a child I thought in church that I would die after the lady that was singing a song finished singing.

several single instances during my life I was afraid I was going to suffocate for no reason and would think "I hope the people around me know cpr"

one day at school I thought about how a certian guy was very social wheras I was shy it was a jelous thought and then I was troubled that manbye instead of seeing him as an attractive person and personality that I was attracted to him. I am completely heterosexual.

those are a few examples there are more but these did not happen alot and did not cause me to have compulsions.

 

[gracealone]

HI Again Optimistic,
I had things that scared me as a child too. Here are a few I was scared that I could get flushed down the toilet as a toddler, then I obsessed for quite a long time that I might swallow my tounge, then I woudn't let my folks cover me up at night because I thought I'd wet the bed if they did, let's see I had to sleep on the very edge of my bed practically hanging off the side because I thought it was safer there...closer to the door and all.
I used to be bothered by hearing my heartbeat. My mom said that when I was very little I would come to her all scared and say "MY heart is beating!!" I went to a play when I was about 12 and a character in the play had a brain aneurism, I spent weeks thinking I was going to have one too.
You don't have to have compulsions to have OCD as you probably know.
The fear that you had about being attracted to someone of the same sex is a fairly common problem with a lot of people with OCD. One of my sons went through a short lived bout of that.
The important thing is... do your obessions cause you a great deal of mental pain to the point that they are interfering with your ability to live and enjoy your life?
When I first developed an anxiety disorder I had both severe panic attacks and horrible Obsessional thoughts and images. Hardly any one knew just how miserable I was. I was so good at faking it. But I could hardly eat, I lost a lot of weight, I couldn't sleep. But honestly I was suffering tremendously even to the point of actually asking God to take away the bad feelings and give me cancer instead. Instead He gave me another child and guided me to an article in a magazine that finally told me what was wrong with me. This was the beginning of my learning how to fight this disorder and how to get back to living a joy filled, peaceful life again. I still have panic attacks, I still have bouts of OCD, recently I got pretty bad with it again, but this time I knew to get help and start the right kind of therapy.
You sound like a very strong person. You are probably like me in that you think you can just handle the pain. You probably get really disgusted with yourself for not being able to just dismiss the thoughts.
I hope you are doing better and that you continue to learn all you can about this disorder and get help when you think you need it. Getting help can be scary for a person with OCD.
I just want you to know that I don't regret for one minute opening up about my disorder and getting help for it. I thank God for knowledgeable Dr.'s who have been so kind and have helped me so much.
Sorry for going on and on. You are just a bit younger than my two boys, both of them have had some of your same struggles. My heart goes out to you.
God Bless,
Mitzi

 

[OptimisticSmile]

the thoughts were single instances that did not bother me much but the religious stuff makes me misreable.

last night i was thinkking how the bible says to examoine yourselves to see if your in the faith. i am feeling as though i have no faith and that bothers me because I know that faith is a gift from God that he bestows on us and not us on ourselves. i also think about election as well and how it plays into that.

 

[gracealone]

Yes... I know.. it's that "hell fire" thing as well as that, " I've lost my faith, lost the Lord, or He hasn't really chosen me stuff", that wreaks havoc within. I've thought them all, just when I would think I'd won the battle with one thought it would come on with a whole new twist, thus is the nature of OCD. The more fertile your mind the deeper the arguments can go.
Trust me, people with OCD who aren't Christians do not worry about whether they are Christians or not. They could care less. Their OCD attacks other areas which are of more importance to them. But even though you know that you will still obsess.. because.... you have OCD and your brain wants you to obsess.
I've come to really understand this saying...
"Ignorance is bliss". Oh to be Homer Simpson.
But God didn't make you to be ignorant. He made you a certain way for a certain purpose. He wants to use you... not, in spite of your affliction, but actually because of it.
Remember that fellow named Paul and how He begged the Lord three times to remove his affliction.
Instead God used the affliciton to shape him into a vessel that was wholly dependant on Him.
So Paul ends up saying. " I will, therefore glory in my affliction, that the power of Christ might rest upon me for when I am weak then He is strong."
Paul never felt strong, God was strong in and through him. He said that he came into cities to share the gospel, "weak and trembling and shaking all over with fear." God allowed it, so that Paul would not go in His own strength but in Christ's.
Faith is not found in you my friend, but in all that He is.
Remember that your feelings do not equate to your actual position in Christ. Your feelings cannot change what has already been accomplished for you.
They're just feelings which are there because you have an afflicition called OCD, they are not to be depended on at all.
Are you considering getting help yet? Or do you want to keep on feeling miserable? Can you talk to your folks about this? Feel welcome to share my emails with them. I want you to feel better. I know how greatly you suffer, it's a pain that any of would gladly exchange for a broken leg, or anything physical.
Hang in there buddy.
Mitzi
p.s. Do you do any type of aerobic exercise like running. Exercise is medicine to me the more I do it the better my serotonin levels. It takes awhile to kick in but I highly recommend it as a natural method of helping to balance brain chemistry.

 

[Liftyourhand7]

Hi Optimisticsmile, Oh my friend I am now going through all the things that you are talking about, Please listen to gracealone, I asked the Lord to help me and He sent me her, now I am not saying I am looking to her instead of God I only have one God my Lord Jesus, but He puts wise people in our life people who have been through the same things we have so that we know we are truly not alone. I have an appointment to see a psycotherapist this week because I don't want to live in this pain anymore, now He is also not my God, but God puts His people here to help us I asked the Lord before I made this appointment to send me the right person and I am going to believe him for that,I have had all the same thoughts that you have had (it is awful and scary and we because we love the Lord are even more frightend,) but He is sending us all kinds of help will we reach out and take it? He has not forgotton us or forsaken us even though we (feel) like He has Just because we (feel) that way does not make it true. I will also pray for you. Take Heart God will see us through. BLessings Jan

 

[OptimisticSmile]

ok Im getting counseling tommarow . thank you guys.

 

[gracealone]

That's great news Op.S.!! I'll be praying for you. Let us know how it goes.