Very simple poll on the origin of Man?

[Dominus Fidelis]

All of creation has a common designer. God. He alone creates.

Yes, I realize that. What we are required to believe, as Catholics, is that Adam and Eve were real. A man without an immortal soul is not true man. Let us call him an ante-man. If God chose two of these ante-men (one man, one woman) and instilled into them an immortal soul, they would be the proto-man and proto-woman (Adam and Eve) from which we all have descended. Only with this immortal soul is anyone considered "man" from a theological sense.

Thanks for the explanation, nyj. I am still confused though.

Let's say that there are 1,000 ante-men in existence. The God makes two proto-men, Adam and Eve, via the method you described.

I thought the Pope's position is that all proto-men in existence physically came from Adam/Eve. Are you saying that it is permissible to believe that the children of Adam/Eve mated with the ante-men, and their offspring became proto-men too?

 

[nyj]

I thought the Pope's position is that all proto-men in existence physically came from Adam/Eve. Are you saying that it is permissible to believe that the children of Adam/Eve mated with the ante-men, and their offspring became proto-men too?

No, as a Catholic you are required to believe in monogenism (Humani Generis #37). That Adam and Eve were the source of all humanity. That is why I stated: ...they would be the proto-man and proto-woman (Adam and Eve) from which we all have descended.

 

[Dominus Fidelis]

No, as a Catholic you are required to believe in monogenism (Humani Generis #37). That Adam and Eve were the source of all humanity. That is why I stated: ...they would be the proto-man and proto-woman (Adam and Eve) from which we all have descended.

Ok, thanks.

Sorry to the TAW folks for hashing out Catholic belief in your forum!

 

[Suzannah]

No, as a Catholic you are required to believe in monogenism (Humani Generis #37). That Adam and Eve were the source of all humanity. That is why I stated: ...they would be the proto-man and proto-woman (Adam and Eve) from which we all have descended.

Now to me, this makes a great deal of sense...
I'm not sure how I feel about Gap Theory, Theistic Evolution or all that...I've never really had time to ponder it and sort of always felt it was a "non essential"....but I like nyj's last statement...

 

[Patristic]

No, as a Catholic you are required to believe in monogenism (Humani Generis #37). That Adam and Eve were the source of all humanity. That is why I stated: ...they would be the proto-man and proto-woman (Adam and Eve) from which we all have descended.

This is similar to an objection/question I also had. Has anyone concretely defined what the first real man and women(Adam and Eve) were? Were they Neanderthals, cro-magnons, or something else? The accounts given in Genesis 2,3, and 4 definitely attribute verbal communication skills to Adam, Eve, and their direct offspring, and most anthropologists and linguists theorize that the only species on the evolutionary chain capable of using complex language were homo sapiens(cro-magnons). This relates to something else I read about in an archeological journal, but I don't wont to divulge the specifics until this subject is addressed.

 

[Lotar]

Ahem, Lotar...

What on Earth are you talking about?

The theory of evolution has outdated itself constantly. There are observations on the Theory of Evolution at the Royal Ontario Museum, and they have been "outdated"
Am I drawing a correct picture?

Please do not make up ideas like... "99.99%"

It's just... why would you even say that?

The Theory of Evolution is pretty feeble-minded. They're talking about survival of the fittest: One animal was strong enough to survive climate change or a flood or a meteor or whatever... But do you think one animal can survive a colossal change on Earth? No matter how "fit" it is, it simply cannot burden enough strength to survive a whole climate change or meteor attack or whatever.

Let's look Charles Darwin's theory. Adaptation.

There are two islands. On one island there are birds with small beaks... Their food is lodged and stuck between the rocks on the shore... These birds supposedly grow large beaks so they can get into the rocks to pick out their food. I do not see the simplest logic in that. Think about this. A bird does not live very long! By the time it would "adapt" meaning that his DNA would change in order to make his beak LONG enough to reach between rocks; it would die 200 billion times... Like I always say: You need more faith to be an Atheist than to believe in God. On the other island the birds with long beaks can pick up their food from the rocks; while the small ones die. I don't understand why THOSE small ones didn't "evolve"...

Huh? Huh? *Umut pokes you on the ribs with his elbow...*

I mean... seriously... "Look an ape!... Wow! I think we evolved from it! Let's take a picture of an ape, and use 7 more frames of pictures and slowly turn his spine vertical, get rid of the hair in its body and make him look like us!" You see what I'm saying? You can make any animal look like a human skeleton with a few frames of pictures...

No animal can adapt to their environment... Let's say it happened. What governed them to adapt?

Animals don't have frontal brain lobes... The apes could not walk upright because of their knee joints... they could not be straight like ours; so they are considered animals; therefore they don't have frontal brain lobes either... If they were to "adapt" or "evolve" what would cause them to "evolve" and "adapt" to their environment...

They don't know what form of shape to take so they can survive in a certain environment... They don't know how to change their diet... Their bodies wouldn't know what to do... Not even humans would subconsciously know what to do, and we have THREE brain lobes!!

Umut's theory: Theory of Evolution is garbag-o!

Christ be with you all!

Wow, where did that come from?

Well this isn't the PRE so I'll just say, wait until you get to college and take some classes on Biology, Geology, ect.

 

[Umut]

Okay, Lotar... I'd love to argue, but if you would just stop and think about this for a second.

Answer me: Where does man come from?
Germs?

Where do Germs come from?

Earth?

Where does the Earth come from?

Broke off from the sun? Any other theories?

wher edoes that come from?

where does the sun, solar system, milky way, galaxies come from?

Universe?

What has science proven? The only thing science has proven is the fact that it will replace its theory with another...

Honestly; what or who governs everything?

please.... if you have answers i'd like to hear them!

 

[Umut]

I'm not taking these classes because I think they are pointless...

Philosophically, I really do not see the point in taking them. Because it is the current technology, it will most likely be laughed upon a few decades from now...

Just answer these:

What is the nature of the Universe?

Who created man?

Why is there perfect harmony and balance on Earth?

How can something come from nothing?

 

[Lotar]

Umut,

I really wouldn't even know where to start
If you go to college you may end up having to take a couple of these courses to satisfy your general ed requirements, then perhaps you can make your arguement when you understand the theories correctly. I am in no way saying that science disproves God, I wouldn't be a Christain otherwise.

As for the classes being pointless, not really. These subjects are put to use in developing new technology and methods in things ranging from medicine to engineering.

 

[Umut]

i don't necessarily know the theories fully; but you get the idea...

i never said that science disproves God, just some theories like the Evolution Theory really does not make sense...

Plus if you want to argue; come back when The Theory of Evolution becomes The Theorum of Evolution. I assume you know the difference

 

[twex]

Evolution is both a fact and a theory. That evolution occurs is certain and undisputable. The theories explain how it occurs. The job of theology/philosophy is to explain why it occurs.

Theorems are part of mathematics, not science.

 

[Beastt]

Not actually from the ancestors of apes, but from beings more ape-like than we are now.

 

[Beastt]

I'm not taking these classes because I think they are pointless...

Philosophically, I really do not see the point in taking them. Because it is the current technology, it will most likely be laughed upon a few decades from now...

Just answer these:

What is the nature of the Universe?

Matter and energy. Two different forms of the same thing.

Who created man?

The natural chemistry of the universe

Why is there perfect harmony and balance on Earth?

Perfect balance leads to stagnation. Where do you see perfect balance?

How can something come from nothing?

Show me nothing. Show me a place where nothing exists.

 

[Orthodox Andrew]

Matter and energy. Two different forms of the same thing.


The natural chemistry of the universe


Perfect balance leads to stagnation. Where do you see perfect balance?



Show me nothing. Show me a place where nothing exists.

(MOD HAT ON)

You must be Orthodox to debate in this forum. Non-Orthodox can only ask questions, but they can not debate the answers. I see you're new, so you may not know all the forum rules yet.

http://www.christianforums.com/t36757

3) Non-Orthodox and Coptic members (eg. Protestant or Catholic members) can only post fellowship posts here or posts to ask a question regarding Orthodox and Coptic doctrine. Once the question is answered, there shall be no debate over the answer in this forum by the Non-Orthodox or Coptic member. Any debate posts by Non-Orthodox or Coptic members will be deleted or moved to the Interdenominational Doctrine Debate forum. In other words, only Orthodox and Coptic members can debate here.

 

[Umut]

Alright, Beastt

Let's get started!

What is the nature of the universe? You said Matter and Energy! You forgot Time and Space.

Time, Space, Matter.

Without time you have no matter...
Without no space you have no time or matter
Without matter you have no time.

You need every one of those things...

Plus.... where do all three those things come from?

Who created man... you said the natural chemistry of the universe..

Listen to me... what created the universe?

The big bang theory? The big bang theory in a nutshell says that a simple dot SO INTENSE AND SO HOT contained all the matter in the universe. It exploded and now the universe is expanding...

okay... listen... that little INTENSE dot had all the planets and all the material in the universe in it. Therefore before it exploded all the chemicals were flowing around in that little dot. So when it exploded; it had to know exactly where and when to explode in order to create certain matter; like Hydrogen, Oxygen, Carbon etc... these are essential for life... it had to know or else we would have a universe of completely Oxygen, or completely Carbon... or anything.. catch my drift?

Read 'God: The Evidence' it talks about the things i'm talkin about...

moving on...

you said perfect balance leads to stagnation.

Stagnation means no flow of things... No flow of things means no TIME.

imagine being on a highway between point A to point B, and imagine the road is infinite... then you have no time... no flow...

but we do have time... we do have flow...

where do i see perfect balance? Among the animals.... I said HARMONY AND BALANCE, don't think i didn't say Harmony... i included harmony in there: big difference...

You said "Show me where nothing exists"

Black holes in the universe... There is no time, no space and no matter inside a black hole... there are many Black Holes in the universe; read Stephen Hawking's theory on Black holes... you get sucked in to a black hole; you become nothing...

I hope that covered it

peace

 

[Dominus Fidelis]

Umut-

Good job!

 

[nyj]

...

 

[Umut]

I am glad that our Most Sweetest Lord Jesus Christ has answered my prayers and granted me his wisdom to defend my faith...



Thank you for the praise!

 

[Stone_Lock_Comanche]

I guess the Word of the Most High is too outdated for our wise 19th century ideaologies? Living in this time has slaughtered your minds. Finally Man created by the one, Whose eyes are ten thousand times as bright as the sun and shine upon all of mans doings and see into his most secret places. Can believe they were/are monkeys. Darkness Seems took over the world? Good work babylon!

 

[Umut]

I think I speak for all of us when I say: What?

Plus we're in the 21st century

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