Verichips

[GreenMunchkin]

Are they the mark of the beast? Watching film of people having them implanted definitely feels very very uncomfortable so am curious about the general consensus here.

 

[snoochface]

Unless people are getting chipped in order to worship the antichrist, they are not the mark of the beast. Right now, all I see are people getting the chips as a more convenient, if perhaps less security-conscious, method of identification.

There's nothing involving worship going on so I don't see how it can have any eschatological significance, at least at this stage. It may be a precursor, I don't know, but the chips right now are nothing.

 

[DeaconDean]

You will find that for the most part, its not a big concern for most people. I, however, find that it is. The United States government has already started requiring all foriegn diplomats to be "chipped." And their respective families. Why? Because the verichip is also GPS enabled, if a diplomats family is kidnapped, they locate them rather easily.

The U.S. Army was/is considering "chipping" all new recruits.

The exact same "verichip" that was implanted on credit cards, "American Express" is a prime example, is the same one that is being used at most major amusment parks. You know the kind, you put a set amount of money on one and when you've spent that, it can be recharged.

The technology is here to pave the way for the coming anti-christ.

Yes, I'm weary of it. Yes, it concerns me. And yes, this could be what will be his mark.

That is just my opinion. Take it for what it's worth.

God Bless

Till all are one.

 

[GreenMunchkin]

What worries me, though, is while they're currently claiming the verichip is voluntary, they're maneouvering things so while they're still voluntary, without them you won't be able to drive, and eventually vote. Without being able to vote, according to the government you're a non-citizen.

At that point, what's to stop them from deciding you are illegal... tis just a logistical hop, skip and a jump to not being able to trade and that fulfills bible prophesy.

Further, these chips when implanted react to electromagnetic waves, and if exposd to high levels by being near a "reader", it can burn you.

"The first angel went and poured out his bowl on the land, and ugly and painful sores broke out on the people who had the mark of the beast and worshipped his image." (Revelation 16:2)

People who are chipped suffering burns is certainly one interpretation of "painful sores broke out on the people who had the mark of the beast". The way it's all so insidious is the biggest worry. People are being blind-sighted into thinking this is all ok, primarily because of 9/11 and 7/7 - which in themselves are very much open to debate.

I just don't think it's wise for us to categorically state that no they're not, and that it's the intention of the chipee that matters, because we have the bible that tells us what's happening, so we have knowledge, and accepting the chip may very well mean accepting the mark of the beast. We're told there will be a great falling away... perhaps that partially relates to Christians accepting the chip, whether knowingly or not. The devil is a liar - whethe we are deceived into falling away or not, it's all the same to him.

 

[ArmoredTruth]

Any government alterations of our bodies should be questioned. Mark/implant/whatever. People should not have to give control over their bodies to anyone.

 

[GreenMunchkin]

Well that's another thing. The chips contain GPRS - do you want to be on radar 24 hours a day? It's CCTV to the nth degree.

Even if it's the size of a country, a prison is still a prison.

 

[bryanhilton]

Sorry, but I do not believe the chips that they currently have in place contain such technologies due to the size of the chips currently in place for GPS/GPRS. Also, most people fear having a cell phone near their head for long periods of time because of tumors/cancer studies, most CDMA phones opperate at 900 mhz. Can you imagine what type of signal a GPS chip puts out?!? Not to mention the battery needed to charge such a device. I do believe as technology advances we will see this in use. But I do not believe we will see it implemented by the beast because of the Rapture.

 

[GreenMunchkin]

Storing all of our biometric information uses a lot more mhz than a GPRS. The GPRS aspect is being touted as a way for parents to keep track on their kids "in case of kidnapping" but they're not gonna make 2 different types. Financially, it's more viable to keep production as singular as possible, and Verichip Co. has estimated that the business is worth in excess of $100 billion. They're all about the money.

Also, you meantion the rapture... in what way do you reckon that's a part of it? I guess that means you believe the raptre will occur (a discussion for another thread ) but in what way you see the devil using the chips because of it?

 

[DeaconDean]

Sorry, but I do not believe the chips that they currently have in place contain such technologies due to the size of the chips currently in place for GPS/GPRS. Also, most people fear having a cell phone near their head for long periods of time because of tumors/cancer studies, most CDMA phones opperate at 900 mhz. Can you imagine what type of signal a GPS chip puts out?!? Not to mention the battery needed to charge such a device. I do believe as technology advances we will see this in use. But I do not believe we will see it implemented by the beast because of the Rapture.

All those concerns about radiation to the head causing tumors in cell phones, that is history. They have a fix for that. Most cell phones are completely safe. But isn't it curious how GPS can be tracked to cell phones? Why not a chip?

You want a good example of GPS tracking using the verichip?

Read this artilce:

"Nathan Isaacson of Tamarac is one of 2,500 people who want to get computer chips implanted in their bodies.
The 83-year-old is in the early stages of Alzheimer's disease. If he wanders off or gets hurt, family members worry that medical workers won't know who he is or that he's allergic to penicillin. Or that he has a recently implanted pacemaker.
The solution to such emergencies, says Palm Beach-based Applied Digital Solutions, is the VeriChip.
The $200 microchip can be encoded with information such as a person's name and Social Security number and a list of medical allergies, then injected under the skin. Emergency room workers would then use scanners to read the chip.
''It might sound regimental, but aren't we in that type of world these days?'' said Isaacson's wife, Micki.
Applied Digital is not the only company implanting computer chips.
MicroCHIPS, in Cambridge, Mass., makes products that deliver medicine to the body; AVID, in Norco, Calif., tracks pets implanted with its microchips; and Trovan, in Santa Barbara, Calif., has implantable transponders in more than 300 zoos worldwide.
For all the arguments against chip implants turning people into human LoJacks, the fate of kidnapped Wall Street Journal reporter Daniel Pearl is an example of how safety issues may override privacy concerns. Richard Sullivan, chief executive officer of Applied Digital Solutions, also suggests another application: helping to track undocumented immigrants.
The problem could be solved, he said, if ``people were required to be chipped or had some combination of a device requiring them to be scanned and monitored at all times.''
''I think it's not unreasonable to ask people who want to come to work in the country that they respect the rights of people who are citizens in the United States,'' Sullivan said.
NEXT STEP
VeriChip is the next step in the evolution of another Applied Digital product called Digital Angel, a pager-like gadget that uses global positioning system (GPS) tracking to keep tabs on people, and biosensors that monitor vital signs. Digital Angel can be turned off by the wearer or by an administrator, depending on how it's programmed. VeriChip can be removed only surgically.
Los Angeles County parolees are being monitored by Digital Angel through a three-year pilot program. Implanted microchips currently track more than 86,000 pets in Florida, as well as livestock and zoo animals. Experts predict that if trackable chip implants become widely available, there will be a long line of military personnel, diplomats, corporate executives, foreign correspondents and celebrities waiting to ``get chipped.''
This month, Brazilian government official Antonio de Cunha Lima, the first distributor of the VeriChip in Brazil, will be implanted with the chip.
Even famous curmudgeon Andy Rooney is pro-chip.
''We need some system for permanently identifying safe people,'' Rooney said in a 60 Minutes commentary on CBS. ``Most of us are never going to blow anything up, and there's got to be something better than one of [those] photo IDs -- a tattoo somewhere, maybe.
``I wouldn't mind having something planted permanently in my arm that would identify me.''
But not everyone will want to become a human bar code.
''If a government ever requires a technology like this on a segment of its population, then I think it's going to be very provocative,'' said Stephen Keating, executive director of the Denver-based Privacy Foundation.
For example, airlines could encourage demand for chips by allowing people with implants to get faster security clearance. ''It can become commercially coercive,'' Keating said.
Before there is widespread acceptance, VeriChip needs to be approved by the Food and Drug Administration in the United States -- a process that could take up to 18 months. And the company may have a tough time convincing hospitals and ambulance and pharmaceutical companies, which would have to buy scanners, of the chip's medical value.
Applied Digital needs FDA approval sooner rather than later. Amid a major corporate restructuring, the company has lost more than $267 million in the past year.
The company also faces competition. A Boca Raton plastic surgeon says he has created an implantable device -- the size of a quarter -- that can monitor missing children, parolees, Alzheimer's patients and valuables.
''We hope this will be on the market within the year,'' said Dr. Daniel Man, who patented the device in 1987 and has been working on it since.
At Applied Digital's offices on Royal Palm Way, Vice President Keith Bolton demonstrates the product by waving a scanner two to three inches from the microchip, which can hold up to 128 characters. In nanoseconds, an identification number appears on the screen.
RETRIEVING DATA
Bolton then checks a handheld electronic device, scrolling down the screen to find out the person's name, eye color and medical allergies, the name of the patient's pacemaker manufacturer, the model number, the date it was installed, and the company's phone number.
The chip, which is manufactured in Spain, will be encoded before being implanted, but the information could be updated using remote access. The company plans to charge hospitals and ambulance services a monthly fee for access to a database, Bolton said.
''The assets we've developed through this technology are so significant it's going to be the savior of the company,'' said Scott Silverman, who was appointed president of Applied last week.
The company's plans for the chip were accelerated when Dr. Richard Seelig, Applied's medical applications director, inserted two chips -- one in his right forearm, the other in his right hip -- on Sept. 16. After the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks, he thought such a device could help identify bodies of victims.
''I would want my healthcare givers to have as much information about me,'' Seelig said. ``You're gushing information, not trying to restrain access to them.''
GETTING `CHIPPED'
About 2,500 people have contacted Applied Digital to ''get chipped.'' As part of a pilot study, 50 volunteers -- including Nathan Isaacson -- will be injected with the VeriChip, measuring nearly half an inch long and less than one-tenth of an inch in diameter. A doctor will apply a local anesthetic, insert the needle containing the chip, and put on an adhesive bandage.
The Jacobs family of Boca Raton can't wait to become ``the Chipsons.''
''It's kind of like Star Trek,'' said Leslie Jacobs, an advertising executive at Florida Design magazine. Waving her hand, she added: ``Dr. Spock will go like this and know your medical history.''
Derek, 14, dislikes wearing his silver medical alert bracelet because children at school can tell that he suffers from allergies.
The VeriChip will replace the different types of identification used, the family says. And, unlike your wallet, it can't be stolen. Said Jeffrey Jacobs, who suffers from several illnesses, including Hodgkin's disease: ``I think it's going to increase privacy.''

http://users.cybertime.net/~ajgood/combine.html

All this was in place, less than four years ago. It would seem that given the details from Revelation, it would be very hard to buy or sell without the chip. Furthermore, with the GPS capability, it would be rather hard to run from this also.

Whether or not you agree with this situation. Does it not make sense to be sure your right with the Lord just in case?

God Bless

Till all are one.

 

[icedtea]

Its a way to get people used to the idea. Gotta ease em into it.
It will be touted as a way to safely find abducted children. Who wouldn't be for that?

 

[OhhJim]

I just don't think it's wise for us to categorically state that no they're not, and that it's the intention of the chipee that matters,

Of course it's the intention of the chipee that matters. Assuming for a moment that the chipee IS the MotB, if the intention didn't matter, the government could simply kidnap you, put you to sleep, inject a chip, and BOOM!...You're going to hell! Isn't that silly?

There's so much other misinformation on this thread, and I've commented on them before, that I'll just leave this one alone.

 

[GreenMunchkin]

Of course it's the intention of the chipee that matters. Assuming for a moment that the chipee IS the MotB, if the intention didn't matter, the government could simply kidnap you, put you to sleep, inject a chip, and BOOM!...You're going to hell! Isn't that silly?

You quoted me out of context. By intentions, I mean a person wanting to follow Christ, but accepting the chip because they refuse to acknowledge the possibility. Being forcibly chipped is a completely different thing.

There's so much other misinformation on this thread, and I've commented on them before, that I'll just leave this one alone.

An unnecessary thing to say, don't you think? If you feel there's misinformation, explain why. If you don't want to, why mention it in the first place?

God bless.

 

[OhhJim]

By intentions, I mean a person wanting to follow Christ, but accepting the chip because they refuse to acknowledge the possibility.

Exactly why I don't think the chip can be the Mark. Revelation makes it clear that the reason God hates the Mark is because it's an indication of worship. People will take the Mark because they worship the Beast, not because they want economic advantages. God doesn't care where you do your banking.

If you feel there's misinformation, explain why.

I get tired of covering the same ground, time after time. The regulars know how I feel. The people who don't, will probably be gone in a week.

If you don't want to, why mention it in the first place?

I didn't want you to think I agreed with you, and to encourage you to be more like the Bereans, and do more checking into the facts of the chip. Plus, someone asked for the "general consensus", did they not?

 

[ArmoredTruth]

Exactly why I don't think the chip can be the Mark. Revelation makes it clear that the reason God hates the Mark is because it's an indication of worship. People will take the Mark because they worship the Beast, not because they want economic advantages. God doesn't care where you do your banking.

If you don't think the chip could be the mark, would you be chipped if the government mandated you have one in you or on you?

 

[valuecard]

yep i rekon veri chip is the mark. warn as many people as you can. i was street preaching the gospel in my city (brisbane, australia) last year, and before i went into the city, i said to my friends "im going to preach about the mark of the beast today, 1. because its important, and 2. because the bible says to preach about it in the last days", anyway when i was preaching i started preaching about the mark of the beast, and this couple stopped and listened to the whole preaching and afterwards me and my friend went up and talked to each of them. Neither of them were christians, but they said the only reason they stopped to listen is because they heard the words "mark of the beast" and they wanted to know what i was talking about. The guy was a muslim and his girlfriend was undecided but my mate spoke to the guy and i spoke with the girl for almost an hour each, reasoning with them abotu the gospel, and they were so close to accepting Christ by the end of it. But yea i was saying that to encourage you guys to get the word out, because God is starting to stir this warning about the mark in the hearts of his people and in the hearts of the lost, so preach it, because its part of the gospel, and the lost need to be warned.

PS i should state that i believe veri chip is the mark TECHNOLOGY! its not the mark yet, only in the final 3.5 years of time, when the world is forced to take it or take a hike, then it becomes the mark. for now it is like a prototype of the mark.

 

[GreenMunchkin]

The guy was a muslim and his girlfriend was undecided but my mate spoke to the guy and i spoke with the girl for almost an hour each, reasoning with them abotu the gospel, and they were so close to accepting Christ by the end of it.

God is so good!

 

[OhhJim]

If you don't think the chip could be the mark, would you be chipped if the government mandated you have one in you or on you?

Excellent question! I would consider the pros and cons, but I would say that I would get chipped if it was only for economic or identification purposes. Revelation makes it pretty clear that God objects to the Mark because those who get it are worshipping the Beast.

I don't believe the chip can be turned into the Mark after the fact, any more than I believe the Beast could take over MasterCard and claim that everyone who had one was worshipping him.

I believe the whole purpose of the Mark of the Beast is because Satan wants humans to worship him, as opposed to worshipping Yahweh. We are told that Satan said in his heart, "I will be like the Most High". I believe that Satan thinks one way he can supplant God is to convince God's creatures (humans) to worship him, rather than their Creator. The Mark is a clear choice humans will have to make. There won't be any confusion about it being an identification thing, or a banking thing or a medical thing. Those who take it will understand clearly the choice they are making.

I believe that, during the Tribulation, the Beast, having taken great power, will say that those darn Christians are causing trouble and need to be identified and eliminated. The only way to do this (he'll say) is for all his followers/worshippers to mark themselves, either with his number, his name or his mark (as Revelation says, it could be any one of those three things). He will explain that real Christians would never do such a thing, so that's how we can spot them. Report them to the authorities, and of course, don't do business with them. Remember that by marking yourself, you are declaring that you worship the Beast, he will say.

 

[icedtea]

Excellent point, OhJim.

 

[ArmoredTruth]

I guess the only thing I would worry about Jim, is if the beast represents some sort of economic system, something that isnt a being or entity. Like worshiping a super computer lol idk. But I'm pretty sure it will be a being, demon, entity, or even angel. I just don't think the government should being allowing any mark or implant that connects to human flesh. I guess I would go directly to jail and not collect $200 for passing Go.

 

[SWigton87]

It isn't the mark yet. However, it is very possible that it could turn into it. So far, I haven't been beheaded for not having one yet.