Veiling of women

[Catherineanne]

I know what you mean. I often found my thoughts different from those of others, and sometimes I was not sure anymore if what I thought was correct or maybe only some kind of wishful thinking. And it helps a lot to know other people's POV and to know you are not the only one thinking this way.

Exactly. I really want to behave appropriately in this situation, and it helps to have other people understand that. I have no hopes of prostelytising, because that is not my job, but I think I am there so that they can learn about Christianity, just as they are there to help me overcome some of my prejudices against Islam.

Yes, sure I agree. Our spiritual identity shows who we really are. If we are in Christ, we are a new creation, and we are all one in Him, as the following verses say:

2 Corinthians 5:17 (NIV)
"Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come!"

Galatians 3:28 (NIV)
"There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus."

Thanks, Becky. I very much appreciate your words, and your encouragement.

 

[HumbleSiPilot77]

Any evidence, or just centuries old Orthodox images?

Orthodox iconography makes no mention of Islamic hijab. Historical documents could shine some light on how 1st century women dressed like.

 

[HumbleSiPilot77]

About the whole brother thing... In the midst of a heated but very good, argumentative discussion here, I once happened to say "you can't do that bro" (meaning argue something and then turn around contradict himself) to a muslim which I won't name. I thought of it as a gesture, a warm connection as we were the part of the discussion, he repulsed it and threw it back to my face that in no way I was his brother. It didn't even have anything to do with the context of the argument. He just took his time from that discussion to lash out that evil from his heart. I will never ever consider any follower of Muhammad my brother again.

 

[Supreme]

About the whole brother thing... In the midst of a heated but very good, argumentative discussion here, I once happened to say "you can't do that bro" (meaning argue something and then turn around contradict himself) to a muslim which I won't name. I thought of it as a gesture, a warm connection as we were the part of the discussion, he repulsed it and threw it back to my face that in no way I was his brother. It didn't even have anything to do with the context of the argument. He just took his time from that discussion to lash out that evil from his heart. I will never ever consider any follower of Muhammad my brother again.

Was that on here? Clearly you'd ruffled someone's feathers and they were angry.

 

[HumbleSiPilot77]

Yes it was on here, and yes it was a bad experience, but it is not really about me, I have moved on since then, I learned that there is no need to be sincere with some at times. Why would they be angry anyway, if they can't answer to the criticism? I moved on.

 

[Beckyy25]

Yes it was on here, and yes it was a bad experience, but it is not really about me, I have moved on since then, I learned that there is no need to be sincere with some at times. Why would they be angry anyway, if they can't answer to the criticism? I moved on.

It is good that you could move on. After all, the way that Muslim reacted is only how he was taught to react. The Qur'an clearly says that Allah loves only the believers, while he hates the disbelievers, so why would a Muslim love you and see you as being his brother? He only did what his holy book tells him to do. I would not even condemn him for that, but I do feel sorry that he failed to see what a great and loving God we have!

 

[PassionFruit]

I am not writing a thesis on Islam, I am posting on a message board. If you want depth, this is not the place for it. My posts are long enough as it is.

If you don't like what I am saying, you are not obliged to read it.

Then perhaps next time maybe you should use better example when there are discussions about how to deal with Muslims and Islam in general.

Instead of making generalizations and not expect to be called on it.

 

[Catherineanne]

About the whole brother thing... In the midst of a heated but very good, argumentative discussion here, I once happened to say "you can't do that bro" (meaning argue something and then turn around contradict himself) to a muslim which I won't name. I thought of it as a gesture, a warm connection as we were the part of the discussion, he repulsed it and threw it back to my face that in no way I was his brother. It didn't even have anything to do with the context of the argument. He just took his time from that discussion to lash out that evil from his heart. I will never ever consider any follower of Muhammad my brother again.

This is a tricky one. I am trying to treat the people next door as brothers and sisters, as my faith tells me to. However, the men treat me as if I have leprosy. This does not bother me personally, because such behavour says more about Islam than about me - apparently they 'respect' me; they just won't pass the time of day or give a cheery wave first thing in the morning. Maybe they are not good in the mornings, I don't know.

However, I don't think I can write off the whole of Islam, because of one or two people. I have known far more weird Christians than weird Moslems.

 

[Catherineanne]

Then perhaps next time maybe you should use better example when there are discussions about how to deal with Muslims and Islam in general.

Instead of making generalizations and not expect to be called on it.

Message boards contain generalisations; like this one. You can call me on whatever you like; I can only be who I am. Clearly, I can never be as perfect as your good self.

I suggest you learn to live with it, or else you are going to be very unhappy; forever trying to control the world and forever failing to do so. Just like any form of fundamentalism, come to that.

 

[Arthra]

Back in 1848 at the Conference of Badasht in Persia (now Iran) Tahirih the Pure One removed her veil as a symbolic gesture and Tahirih, in one of her epistles, says,

"O my God! O my God! The veil must be removed from the face of the Remnant of the Lord. O my God!

Abdul-Baha told her story at a meeting of the Women's Freedom League in London in January 1913,

[FONT=arial,helvetica]Amongst the women of our own time is Qurratu'l-'Ayn, also known as Tahirih the daughter of a priest (Mullah). At the time of the appearance of the Bab she showed such tremendous courage and power that all who heard her were astonished. She threw aside her veil despite the immemorial custom of the women of Persia, and although it was considered impolite to speak with men, this heroic woman carried on controversies with the most learned men, and in every meeting she vanquished them. [/FONT]
[FONT=arial,helvetica][/FONT]
[FONT=arial,helvetica]The Persian Government took her prisoner; she was stoned in the streets, anathematized, exiled from town to town, threatened with death, but she never failed in her determination to work for the freedom of her sisters. She bore persecution and suffering with the greatest heroism; even in prison she gained converts. [/FONT]
[FONT=arial,helvetica][/FONT]
[FONT=arial,helvetica]To a Minister in Persia, in whose house she was imprisoned, she said: [/FONT]
[FONT=arial,helvetica][/FONT]
[FONT=arial,helvetica]"You can kill me as soon as you like but you cannot stop the emancipation of women." [/FONT]
[FONT=arial,helvetica][/FONT]
[FONT=arial,helvetica]At last the end of her tragic life came; she was carried into a garden and strangled. She put on, however, her choicest robes as if she were going to join a bridal party. With such magnanimity and courage she gave her life, startling and thrilling all who saw her. She was truly a great heroine. [/FONT]
[FONT=arial,helvetica][/FONT]
[FONT=arial,helvetica]Today in Persia, among the Bahá'ís, there are women who also show unflinching courage, and who are endowed with great poetic insight. They are most eloquent, and speak before large gatherings of people. [/FONT]

 

[Catherineanne]

Back in 1848 at the Conference of Badasht in Persia (now Iran) Tahirih the Pure One removed her veil as a symbolic gesture and Tahirih, in one of her epistles, says,

"O my God! O my God! The veil must be removed from the face of the Remnant of the Lord. O my God!

Abdul-Baha told her story at a meeting of the Women's Freedom League in London in January 1913,

[FONT=arial,helvetica]Amongst the women of our own time is Qurratu'l-'Ayn, also known as Tahirih the daughter of a priest (Mullah). At the time of the appearance of the Bab she showed such tremendous courage and power that all who heard her were astonished. She threw aside her veil despite the immemorial custom of the women of Persia, and although it was considered impolite to speak with men, this heroic woman carried on controversies with the most learned men, and in every meeting she vanquished them. [/FONT]

[FONT=arial,helvetica]The Persian Government took her prisoner; she was stoned in the streets, anathematized, exiled from town to town, threatened with death, but she never failed in her determination to work for the freedom of her sisters. She bore persecution and suffering with the greatest heroism; even in prison she gained converts. [/FONT]

[FONT=arial,helvetica]To a Minister in Persia, in whose house she was imprisoned, she said: [/FONT]

[FONT=arial,helvetica]"You can kill me as soon as you like but you cannot stop the emancipation of women." [/FONT]

[FONT=arial,helvetica]At last the end of her tragic life came; she was carried into a garden and strangled. She put on, however, her choicest robes as if she were going to join a bridal party. With such magnanimity and courage she gave her life, startling and thrilling all who saw her. She was truly a great heroine. [/FONT]

[FONT=arial,helvetica]Today in Persia, among the Bahá'ís, there are women who also show unflinching courage, and who are endowed with great poetic insight. They are most eloquent, and speak before large gatherings of people. [/FONT]

Thanks for this story, Arthra. This lady sounds like a real inspiration.

In other accounts she shouted “Rise, brothers, the Qur’an is fulfilled and a new era has begun. Am I not your sister, and you my brother? Can you not look upon me as a real friend? If you cannot put out of your mind evil thoughts [because it was unheard of in that age not to hide her face behind a heavy veil] how will you be able to give your life for a great cause? Are you aware that this custom of veiling the face was not enjoined by Muhammad (peace be upon him) so rigorously as you seem to observe? Do you not remember that in some matters he used to send his disciples to go and ask his wife? Let us emancipate our women and reform our society. Let us rise out of our graves of superstition and egoism and pronounce that the Day of Judgment is at hand; then shall the whole earth respond to freedom of conscious and new life! The blast of this trumpet or Resurrection, it is I”

QED.

Where are those Moslems who said this is not literal in Islam? Clearly, for some it is.

 

[Nilla]

Mod Hat On​

This is not a political discussion thread. Please take those to the political area in Society. It's not a thread to discuss religions and extremists. ​

The OP is asking about why women are veiled in certain religions.
Stay on topic. ​

Deleted posts in this thread are deleted for staff review. PM me if you got questions. ​

Mod Hat Off​

 

[A Guidance Without Doubt]

what about nuns in church ??

 

[Xmuslims4christ]

I was a former Muslim, the HIjab is actually not required at all and Islam was the most hectic religion and took a toll on my mental capacity so I escaped and found the Lord!

 

[Catherineanne]

what about nuns in church ??

What about them?

 

[Catherineanne]

I was a former Muslim, the HIjab is actually not required at all and Islam was the most hectic religion and took a toll on my mental capacity so I escaped and found the Lord!

I hope you are finding peace in your new faith, Xm4C.

 

[Beckyy25]

what about nuns in church ??

What about them?

I was going to ask the same question.

 

[HumbleSiPilot77]

However, I don't think I can write off the whole of Islam, because of one or two people. I have known far more weird Christians than weird Moslems.

I still think that this post should be re-worded. "However, I don't think I can write off the whole of MUSLIMS, because of one or two people" The religion itself, traditions, Quran, hadith, none of it is of God. Cathy, does that make sense to you?

 

[Xmuslims4christ]

I think Islam is actually an Arab Paganic religion full of rituals but they wont admit to you and even the moderate ones wont admit. I mean they accused christians of blasphemies but they kissed the black stone, threw rocks at "satan" in mecca and so much daily ritual things as if the Devil has taken their mind to God totally by messing around their doctrines but they cant see these and will forever accused the west of such and such *sigh*

 

[Xmuslims4christ]

I hope you are finding peace in your new faith, Xm4C.

Spritually yes, family wise not good, lol but all is well,thanks