Vegetarianism

[Tibby]

I'm looking for some good info against Vegetarianism. I found plenty of good stuff for, but I can't find any good webpages AGAINST it. I know they have to be out there, but I can't find them!

 

[Multi-Elis]

Is Atkins against it?

 

[Beastt]

I'm looking for some good info against Vegetarianism. I found plenty of good stuff for, but I can't find any good webpages AGAINST it. I know they have to be out there, but I can't find them!

I guess I have to wonder why you want information against it. Hopefully, it's not too pretentious of me to suggest that there is a good reason that you're having so much trouble finding websites with real information that are anti-vegetarian.

 

[missiondocsda]

If you do not have a real and solid reason to fight against it, then the whole idea is seemingly going back to the very first fight:The vegetarian brother(who planted) and another who took care flock.

Ideally, our bodies are temporary places for us, not for anything else, to live on earth. Yet for the sake of redemption of the lost humanity, we humans are called to help other lost humanity as part of the entire lost people.

Til the Christ will be revealed at the end of the days, we shall be using the same degrading bodies made of mud. No matter how much we try to change, we are going nowhere.

But, the choice of intake of food, etc, is to keep our bodies fit as we are, not to reverse, and we can't advance.

We know food today, in majority, is becoming unhealthy to us, and we tend to develop diseases we can easily prevent/avoid by abstaining from them.

Cigar is not meat, and it is harmful enough to kill us before our time. Animal flesh with high LPL, tends to develop heart condition.

Choices of what we have sought to be valuable to our bodies, should be the main goal from this day, to live abit longer for the glory of God. Not to find a hint of wrong in the grass, a sense of humor in flesh. If so, we still go nowhere.

God bless.

 

[panterapat]

I've got no BEEF with vegetarians. I'm willing to MEAT them half-way. But can somebody re-VEAL to me why they STEAK the claim that being a vegetarian is the only WHEY?

 

[Beastt]

I've got no BEEF with vegetarians. I'm willing to MEAT them half-way. But can somebody re-VEAL to me why they STEAK the claim that being a vegetarian is the only WHEY?

LOL!

 

[Joe84]

I've got no BEEF with vegetarians. I'm willing to MEAT them half-way. But can somebody re-VEAL to me why they STEAK the claim that being a vegetarian is the only WHEY?

Very nice!

I think Beastt was probably at least half expecting me to come in here and say this, but I would say that the only major drawback of a vegetarian diet is "Where are you going to get your protein from?".

Of course there are varying levels of vegetarianism, so some can get it from fish, others from eggs and dairy products, but the more you limit yourself the more you have to rely on combining different sources of incomplete proteins, which is a pain in the neck to say the least.

I don't have a problem with veggies, but it makes your life harder, and I don't think I've ever heard a good reason for becoming one, apart from the health benefits, which, at least to the best of my knowledge (although I must admit I haven't read much on the subject), are unfounded.

 

[Tibby]

I guess I have to wonder why you want information against it.

School.

Hopefully, it's not too pretentious of me to suggest that there is a good reason that you're having so much trouble finding websites with real information that are anti-vegetarian.

Yeah, the good reason is search engines don't like me

 

[Beastt]

Very nice!
I think Beastt was probably at least half expecting me to come in here and say this, but I would say that the only major drawback of a vegetarian diet is "Where are you going to get your protein from?".

...but the more you limit yourself the more you have to rely on combining different sources of incomplete proteins, which is a pain in the neck to say the least.

I don't have a problem with veggies, but it makes your life harder, and I don't think I've ever heard a good reason for becoming one, apart from the health benefits, which, at least to the best of my knowledge (although I must admit I haven't read much on the subject), are unfounded.

Of course I expected you, Joe, and I welcome you and your opinions. So let's start with where vegetarians get their protein from.

Soybean sprouts-54%... Spinach-49%... Watercress-46%... Kale-45%... Broccoli-45%... Brussels sprouts-44%... Mungbean sprouts-43%... Soybean curd-43%(tofu)... Turnip greens-43%... Collards-43%... Cauliflower-40%... Mustard greens-39%... Mushrooms-38%... Soy flour-35%... Soybeans-35%... Chinese cabbage-34%... Parsley-34%... Lettuce-34%... Broad beans-32%... Wheat germ - 31%... Green peas-30%... Lentils-29%... Zucchini-28%... Split peas-28%... Kidney beans-26%... Green beans-26%... Navy beans-26%... Cucumbers-24%... Dandelion greens-24%... Garbanzo beans-23%... Green pepper-22%... Artichokes-22%... Cabbage-22%... Celery-21%... Eggplant-21%... Pumpkin seeds-21%... Rye-20%... Tomatoes-18%... Peanuts-18%... Wheat, hard red-17%... Sunflower seeds-17%... Onions-16%... Wild rice-16%... Lemons-16%... Beets-15%... Buckwheat-15%... Oatmeal-15%... Walnuts, black-13%... Sesame seeds-13%... Pumpkin-12%... Cashews-12%... Millet-12%... Almonds-12%... Potatoes-11%... Barley-11%... Honeydew melon-10%... Cantelope-9%... Stawberry-8%... Orange-8%... Filberts-8%... Yams-8%... Blackberry-8%... Cherry-8%... Apricot-8%... Grape-8%... Watermelon-8%... Brown Rice-8%... Tangerine-7%... Papaya-6%... Peach-6%... Sweet potatoes-6%

[Data from "Nutritive Value of American Foods in Common Units". U.S.D.A. Agriculture Handbook No. 456]

Twelve-million four hundred thousand Americans now consider themselves vegetarians. Show me one suffering from kwashiokor.

Note: Human breast milk provides 5% of calories from protein.

----------------

Human Protein Requirements, according to...

...reports in the American Journal of Nutrition: 2½% of total calories

...The Food and Nutrition Board: 4½% of total calories

...The World Health Organization: 4½% of total calories

...The Food and Nutrition Board of the U.S.D.A.: 6% of total calories

...The National Research Council: 8% of total calories

-----------

"Vegetarians always ask about getting enough protein. But I don't know any nutrition expert that can plan a diet of natural foods resulting in a protein deficiency. so long as you're not deficient in calories." -- Nathan Pritikin, Nutritionist, Founder - Pritikin Longevity Centers

I believe I mentioned the thoughts on the necessity of combining foods for the "best" protein on another thread. The conclusion is, and has been for a while that this is a myth. It was based on studies done in the 1940s using rats as test subjects. Studies using humans have shown that combining foods to obtain the best proteins is completely unnecessary and fruitless. The newer studies have also shown that, for humans, many plant-based proteins are superior to meat-based proteins. If you have any doubts, read both the old and newer versions of Diet for a Small Planet wherein the author herself, (Frances Moore Lappe), takes credit for creating the myth that there is an advantage to combining proteins.

Others have also commented on this misinformation:

"Unfortunately, the book (Diet for a Small Planet), is one of the most misleading documents in the last few years because everybody now thinks food balancing is essential. (The book) gives the impression that vegetable proteins don't have sufficient percentages of amino acids."
Pritikin, Nathan, quote Vegetarian Times, issue 43, page 22

Speaking as someone raised vegetarian, who later began to do more research and as a result, changed to a vegan diet; I will confirm your conclusion that it can make one's life harder. You get teased in school, cafeteria lunches are out and as an adult, many restaurants not only don't have any vegetarian or vegan dishes but many wouldn't know what could and couldn't be included in one. Think about what it might be like to take a girl out who asks to go to a steak house.

As far as the health benefits go, I'll bow to your suggestion that you haven't done much research on the subject. Without doing a bit of digging, one isn't likely to find the data which shows what the protein industry would rather not have you see.

Heart attack is the leading cause of death in the United States. If you eat a normal, American diet, your chances of suffering a heart attack are better than 50%. Vegetarians have a 15% risk while vegans have a 4% chance of a heart attack. As strokes are caused by the same basic mechanism as heart attack, stroke statistics follow suit.

Vegetarians exhibit only 40% of the cancer rate of those on a meat-based diet.

A partial list of deseases and disorders less prevalent in vegans/vegetarians, includes; Strokes, Heart disease, Kidney stones, Breast cancer, Prostate cancer, Pancreatic cancer, Cervical cancer, Stomach cancer, Diabetes, Hypoglycemia, Peptic ulcers, Constipation, Hiatal hernias, Diverticulosis, Gallstones, Hypertension, Salmonellosis, Trichinosis, Osteoporosis, Colon cancer, Ovarian cancer, Endometrial cancer, Kidney disease, Hemorrhoids, Obesity, Asthma, and Irritable colon syndrome.

"Vegetarians have the best diet. They have the lowest rates of coronary disease of any group in the country. They have a fraction of our heart attack rate and they have only 40% of our cancer rate and on average, outlive others by about six years." -- Dr. William Castelli, Director: Framingham Heart Study

------------
Now, to try to answer Tibby's question as best I can. As stated above, the diet can make one the subject of much ridicule. Even in adult circles there are many who can't seem to handle the idea of abstaining from meat without poking fun. Some become down-right angry, but I've never understood why. I guess they feel it's a statement against their life-style which causes them to feel defensive.

Vegetarians tend to carry less weight than non-vegetarians. This is generally a good thing but if you're already predisposed toward being lean, people will often assume that your stature and lack of bulk mean that you're weak and unhealthy. These are typical, but extremely inaccurate stereotypes. Several studies actually showed that vegetarians tend to be stronger, particularly in the areas of endurance and recovery. Social acceptance during the later years of schooling often rely heavily on being successful in sports. While leaner bodied people excel at track and field, the more popular sports such as football rely to some degree on carrying more bulk.

Vegans, not vegetarians, do have the concern about a vitamin B12 deficiency. Vitamin B12 is absolutely essential to maintaining health for certain nerve tissues and any damage resulting from a B12 deficiency is permanent. Years ago a vegan could remove themselves from concern about retaining sufficient stores of vitamin B12. Many people grew at least some of their own food or traded at markets which sold produce from the local community. The produce wasn't scoured under high-pressure washers and to be blunt, often carried a tiny smidgeon of dirt right through the preparation process to the table. It wasn't uncommon for someone to pluck an edible root from the ground, rinse it in irrigation water and consume it in the field. Vitamin B12 is produced naturally by bacteria, algea and fungi in the soil. It takes only about 1 to 2 micrograms of vitamin B12 per day to retain health and the liver can store enough for 2 years or more. But that tiny bit that the body does need is extremely important. Since animals are less clean than humans and because they retain a little vitamin B12 in their tissues, when you consume parts of their bodies, or their mammary or ovarian excretions, you consume a bit of vitamin B12.

Most of the concerns revolve around just being different. Socializing is a bit less carefree. When invited to a barbeque, people will often tell you that they're going to have, "plenty of salad". They get the idea that vegetarians eat little else which is hardly realistic. Even when friends are at their most generous and gracious, you end up labeled and somewhat outcast for the diet choices you've made.

Perhaps the worst part is that not being part of the meat-producing chain can make one acutely aware of the cruelty concealed within meat production. The pain, suffering and torment is enough to make one want to break down and weep at times. Humans display a compassion that is missing in predatory animals. We teach our young to deny this or to focus it only on other people but, as most anyone has seen, children show a natural compassion for animals. This is not the case with other meat-eating animals. Vegetarians are more likely to retain this natural compassion and it can be a difficult weight to bear, especially amongst a society so steeped in the idea that animals must die for every single meal.

I think it not unfair to suggest that the reason you've had so much trouble finding information against vegetarianism, isn't due to the search engines. It's more likely due to the fact that, aside from the psycho-social issues, there is little negative about it.

 

[ChristFollowers]

I've got no BEEF with vegetarians. I'm willing to MEAT them half-way. But can somebody re-VEAL to me why they STEAK the claim that being a vegetarian is the only WHEY?

I guess we do that the same way Christianity say they are the only WHEY.

 

[ChristFollowers]

I'm looking for some good info against Vegetarianism. I found plenty of good stuff for, but I can't find any good webpages AGAINST it. I know they have to be out there, but I can't find them!

Maybe because it's a healthy lifestyle and nobody can say anything bad about it. People mostly just talk about Vegetarians and how they act towards others...but I doubt if you would find information that vegetarianism is a bad health style because The Diabetes Association and half of all the health organizations see Vegetarianism as a good thing.

But I can tell that you are probably going to find a website that hates Vegetarians so they talk bad about vegetarianism.

Vegetarians can be a little mean but that's no reason to bash vegetarianism and make up lies about the healthy lifestyle it offers.

Bash the Vegetarians and not the healthy lifestyle!!!

 

[Jinn_Ku]

I am truly surprised nobody has brought up the fact that Jesus (our perfect example) ate meat. Then there's the fact our bodies are built for both meat and veggies, meaning one extreme or the other is not what we are designed for.

As for the protein thing, I noticed no one brought up the individual amino acid (of which there are 20 our bodies cannot manufacture) contents of meats/veggies. Protein is a very broad word, and while some plants are rich in protein, your diet may still be greatly lacking in several of the essential amino acids (this may be true with omnivorous diets as well, as I have not yet looked into this aspect very far).

 

[Multi-Elis]

I think we all agree that we have bodies that can and are ment to digest meat, but there are also examples in the Bible where vegitarienism is respected. However the reasons I advocate meat reducing are different from what is found in the Bible...

 

[ChristFollowers]

I am truly surprised nobody has brought up the fact that Jesus (our perfect example) ate meat. Then there's the fact our bodies are built for both meat and veggies, meaning one extreme or the other is not what we are designed for.

As for the protein thing, I noticed no one brought up the individual amino acid (of which there are 20 our bodies cannot manufacture) contents of meats/veggies. Protein is a very broad word, and while some plants are rich in protein, your diet may still be greatly lacking in several of the essential amino acids (this may be true with omnivorous diets as well, as I have not yet looked into this aspect very far).

What meat did Jesus eat?? He broke the Fish for them to eat but didnt say He ate it. But then again I don't know I wasnt back then with them.

 

[Jinn_Ku]

Can you give an example of where vegetarianism is respected in the Bible? I'm not familiar with any verses that say that.

 

[Jinn_Ku]

The passover meal consisted of lamb ('evil' red meat). The last supper was the passover meal, and Jesus could not have avoided eating the lamb without breaking God's law.

 

[wonder111]

I have to say my health did a 180 for the better when I switched to vegetarian. Also, all the hormones and other stuff that gets pumped into the animals is no good.

I also think that milk is for calves and they only drink it for the first couple of weeks so that they can bulk up quickly.

all I can say is personal experience has taught me to stay vegetarian

(don't get offended meat eaters it's just my opinion )

 

[ChristFollowers]

The passover meal consisted of lamb ('evil' red meat). The last supper was the passover meal, and Jesus could not have avoided eating the lamb without breaking God's law.

OK. But did the Lamb contain drugs humans pump into animals now?? I doubt it.

 

[ChristFollowers]

Can you give an example of where vegetarianism is respected in the Bible? I'm not familiar with any verses that say that.

There are a couple in Psalms....where it says something like:

"better a dinner of herbs then a fattened calf with hatred"

May not be Vegetarian related but it says something pertaining to meat. There are others in Psalms or Proverbs.....read it and you will see. Also in the Bible they didnt pump animals with drugs and stuff.....some Vegetarians dont eat meat cause of that.... IN the Bible they killed meat and then clean it and ate it....nowadays we pump animals with ALOT of drugs, make them suffer, kill them and then eat them.

Our ideal eating habit was fruits in the Garden of Eden so most Vegetarians believe you should keep that. You may want to eat meat because God gave us "permission" after the flood and all, but SOME people still want to eat the original diet he intended for us to have.

I dont see anything wrong eating meat....its when meat eaters start saying a Vegetarian diet is wrong and it doesnt offer proteins.

 

[Multi-Elis]

Can you give an example of where vegetarianism is respected in the Bible? I'm not familiar with any verses that say that.

Daniel and his friends went on a vegitarien diet when they were in the kings palace, because that was the only way they could ensure a kosher meal. The person in charge of them was at first reluctent to give them a vegitarien diet, not because he had something against vegitariens, but because he was afraid that the meatless diet wouldn't make them healthy enough, so they did an experament, and Daniel and his Friends got to eat all the veggie dishes they wanted, and after a certain trial period they were compared with a controll group and found to be healthier...

Originally man was supposed to eat fruits veggies and whatever he could grow in the feilds, but since the flood God gave permission to eat meat.