Varieties of Dispensationalism - Discussion

[Augustine_Was_Calvinist]

From their avoidance of the scriptures you have provided, one wonders if they consider scripture itself an attack. I have seen this over and over again.

I think that is clear.

 

[Augustine_Was_Calvinist]

Shouldn't the very title of this thread "varieties of dispensationalism" tell you that there is something wrong with dispensationalism to begin with?

As of yesterday, having to add yet another one to the list, dispensationalism has 498,354,259,799 theories.

 

[Augustine_Was_Calvinist]

Now that's funny !

If it wasn't so sad and true, it would be funny.

 

[Augustine_Was_Calvinist]

From their avoidance of the scriptures you have provided, one wonders if they consider scripture itself an attack. I have seen this over and over again.

I've seen it many times as well. On another thread, "
LamorakDesGalis", just flatly denied that I had supported anything, even though I'd posted mountains of Scripture, and said it several times, simply pooh poohing away everything posted from Scripture and Church history saying it wasn't even there.

It makes it very difficult to have a decent discussion when that sort of intellectual dishonesty is employed. vbmenu_register("postmenu_18500695", true);

 

[Augustine_Was_Calvinist]

Sorry, you're in error. Abram believed (requirement) that God (object) would fulfill His promise (content; Gen. 15:1-5). Once he did God accounted his faith as righteousness.

In Christ,
Tracey

Gee, I'm glad that you now agree. That is what I've said from the start.

You are the one who was in error of category mistake by putting the emphasis on the "content of faith", rather than the Object of Abraham's faith, ie-God.

 

[JerryShugart]

The object of Abraham's faith was God, who had given Abraham the Promise that Messiah would come from his bloodline.(all the nations will be blessed through Abraham)

Augustine Was Calvinist,

Despite the fact that the Scriptures say what the content of Abraham's faith was you add something that is not in the Scriptures:

"Who against hope believed in hope,that he might become the father of many nations,according to that which was spoken,So shall thy seed be...And therefore it was counted to him for righteousness"(Ro.4:18,22).

My goodness, every one of you has not comprehended much of anything Paul teaches in Romans at all.

It seems as if it is you who wants to add to what Paul said in Romans.

That is sad, very sad.

It is sad when people add things to the Scriptures that are not there.

In His grace,--Jerry

 

[Augustine_Was_Calvinist]

MOD HAT ON:

All right everybody. The OP specifically asked that this thread stay on topic. The topic is for dispensationalists to say what it is they believe and why they believe it.

There is to be no attacking or confronting. If this behavior continues I will have no recourse but to delete the off-topic posts.

Stay on topic.

MOD HAT OFF

Don't you think that if the dispensationalists wanted to restrict this thread to various dispensationalist's beliefs by the dispensationalists themselves, without challenge from non-dispensationalists, that it should be in the "denomination" area instead of "theology"?

 

[Augustine_Was_Calvinist]

Augustine Was Calvinist,

Despite the fact that the Scriptures say what the object of Abraham's faith was you add something that is not in the Scriptures:

"Who against hope believed in hope,that he might become the father of many nations,according to that which was spoken,So shall thy seed be...And therefore it was counted to him for righteousness"(Ro.4:18,22).

It seems as if it is you who wants to add to what Paul said in Romans.

In His grace,--Jerry

Just how have I added anything? What has been added, when and where?

 

[JerryShugart]

Just how have I added anything? What has been added, when and where?

Here are your words and the part that is in "bold" is the part that you added:

"The object of Abraham's faith was God, who had given Abraham the Promise that Messiah would come from his bloodline.(all the nations will be blessed through Abraham).

In His grace,--Jerry

 

[Augustine_Was_Calvinist]

Here are your words and the part that is in "bold" is the part that you added:

"The object of Abraham's faith was God, who had given Abraham the Promise that Messiah would come from his bloodline.(all the nations will be blessed through Abraham).

In His grace,--Jerry

Are you saying that God did not promise to Abraham that Messiah would come from his bloodline?

 

[JerryShugart]

Are you saying that God did not promise to Abraham that Messiah would come from his bloodline?

If you believe that He did then you should be able to provide Scriptures to support that idea.

Where are your Scriptual support?

In His grace,--Jerry

 

[Augustine_Was_Calvinist]

Here are your words and the part that is in "bold" is the part that you added:

"The object of Abraham's faith was God, who had given Abraham the Promise that Messiah would come from his bloodline.(all the nations will be blessed through Abraham).

In His grace,--Jerry

What was added, actually comes from other parts of Scripture.

You see, I don't pick and choose passages in order to force some into a grid, but understand each within the whole.

Just because something is not communicated(but it is in Romans too if you pay attention) in one place, does not mean that if taken from other Scripture it means that someone is "adding" to Scripture.

Galatians 3:15-17



The Changeless Promise


15 Brethren, I speak in the manner of men: Though it is only a man’s covenant, yet if it is confirmed, no one annuls or adds to it. 16 Now to Abraham and his Seed were the promises made. He does not say, “And to seeds,” as of many, but as of one, “And to your Seed,”[a]who is Christ. 17 And this I say, that the law, which was four hundred and thirty years later, cannot annul the covenant that was confirmed before by God in Christ,[b] that it should make the promise of no effect.

 

[ksen]

Closing thread to have it ready for discussion.

 

[ksen]

Okay, keep discussion and debate on this thread.

Thanks,

-ksen

 

[Augustine_Was_Calvinist]

Here are your words and the part that is in "bold" is the part that you added:

"The object of Abraham's faith was God, who had given Abraham the Promise that Messiah would come from his bloodline.(all the nations will be blessed through Abraham).

In His grace,--Jerry

Once again, are you saying that God did not promise to Abraham that Messiah would come from his bloodline?

Yes, or no?

Now is your chance to sound off on Biblical truth.

I have in good faith responded and answered you.

Now, lets see you, in good faith reciprocate, or else I know that you are being disingenuous.

So, are you saying that God did not promise Abraham that Messiah would come through his bloodline?

Yes or no?

 

[kw5kw]

Augusty, have no fear. My soteriology is in direct line with John Calvin. As for the rest, I'm not even going to offer a reply in my defence...I can't! I'm so screwed up right now, one foot in the dispey camp, the other in the Reformed. It's becoming a real problem and I'm coming to the point where I don't like going to Church or reading the Bible.

peace.

SP

It is only natural for us to set back, think and at times question, doubt if you may, our lot in life. However, As a lamb of God, saved by His Grace thru your trust in Him, you will always be saved.

I will only say that I will pray for you, and that you need to drop down and pray to Him, for guidance.

On this fence I set, not knowing which camp I fall into. I think that this is an "In-house" discussion amongst believers, for that is all that it is, a discussion amongst believers.

 

[Augustine_Was_Calvinist]

It is only natural for us to set back, think and at times question, doubt if you may, our lot in life. However, As a lamb of God, saved by His Grace thru your trust in Him, you will always be saved.

I will only say that I will pray for you, and that you need to drop down and pray to Him, for guidance.

On this fence I set, not knowing which camp I fall into. I think that this is an "In-house" discussion amongst believers, for that is all that it is, a discussion amongst believers.

We have one poster on this thread, "Dispy", who teaches there are two methods of salvation.

One being, OT Jews were saved by works of the Law.

Secondly, NT Jews and Gentiles are saved by faith in Christ.

I have staunchly, and will continue, opposed that as false doctrine and as a subtle attack agains the Cross of Christ, as being anti-Biblical and anti-Christian.

 

[JerryShugart]

Once again, are you saying that God did not promise to Abraham that Messiah would come from his bloodline?

Yes, or no?

I see no Scriptual evidence that He did.It would seem strange that that was a part of the content of Abraham's faith but yet it is never mentioned in the OT and Paul never mentions it.

Now is your chance to sound off on Biblical truth.

I have in good faith responded and answered you.

You never responded to my question.If there is Scriptual evidence that God promised Abraham that the Messiah would come through his bloodline then where is that evidence?

Instead of answering you asked a question.

Now, lets see you, in good faith reciprocate, or else I know that you are being disingenuous.

So, are you saying that God did not promise Abraham that Messiah would come through his bloodline?

Yes or no?

I see no Scriptual evidence.If there is such evidence then why don't you just tell me what it is.Otherwise your continuing evasion is evidence that it is you who is being disingenuous.

In His grace,--Jerry

 

[Augustine_Was_Calvinist]

You never responded to my question.If there is Scriptual evidence that God promised Abraham that the Messiah would come through his bloodline then where is that evidence?

Instead of answering you asked a question.

Please, don't be dishonest. I responded to your question in post #52.

Now, have the decency to reciprocate.

The question I posed is either, yes or no.

Please don't obfuscate.

 

[JerryShugart]

Sorry but I overlooked post #52.

However,those verses say nothing about Abraham knowing that the Messiah would come through his bloodline.You are reading something into those verses that are not there.

The promise that was made to Abraham was that through his seed all the nations would be blessed.There is no evidence that Abraham knew anything more than this.The "glad tiding" that was preached to Abraham was "In thee shall all nations be blessed"(Gal.3:8).

In His grace,--Jerry