Vaccine - Take, wait, never + political position + right - middle - left

[Taisho]

It's no wonder with the daily barrage of medications being hawked, along with which are a laundry list of possible side effects up to and including death.

Doctor: Why did this patient die. I treated him with the latest medications?
Coroner: The drug worked fine. He died of multiple side effects from it.

I think every human has the right to blindly follow what other humans tell them to do, and to inject themselves with biotechnology because of a fear, social pressure or loyalty toward certain systems. That game of social/psychological/physical exploitation isn't new; it clearly works and has worked in the past.

Let those who staunchly advocate for it take the biotechnology vaccines for those who do not - ultimately the same ones that got vaccinated for one strain may have to get another set of vaccines for the variants (e.g. delta variant). It's not like the biotechnology sometimes attacks "good" proteins in the body causing minor (or even major) side effects...

Of course, this is also ignoring all of the grotesque experimentation various governments have done on their own citizens. If health was the issue, it wouldn't be for profit. If health was the issue, Phillip Morris would have been dissolved - especially since we "know" smoking causes cancer, and millions struggle with smoking - especially given the symptoms of CoVID are neurological and respiratory.

I also find it interesting that despite the fact that human trials often up to a decade to fully determine the range of effects on a body, we are ready to take a syringe of biotechnology with inflated and possibly premature positive statistics. Very interesting...

 

[Bradskii]

And you've been vaccinated? If so, it's not doing you much good, is it?

It's possibly stopped me from getting it. The vaccine protects you from catching it but it isn't 100% failsafe. No vaccine is 100% effective. So if you've been in close contact with someone who has it then you need to isolate.

The chances ofeither my wife or my daughter (who have also been vaccinated) actually having it are very small. But we're all doing the right thing and putting up with being in isolation, not to benefit ourselves - obviously, but to help protect the rest of the community.

One person in the local shopping centre got it from the idiot who wasn't vaccinated simply by walking past him (cctv confirmed this). There's an old people's home directly opposite where I live. If my wife had caught it and someone walked past her literally outside our front door on the way to see an elderly family member then we could have covid spread throughout that facility. And she'd be responsible for those deaths.

What is it about all of this that you just don't get? You're either ignorant of the dangers - which I find impossible to believe, or you just don't care.

 

[Strathos]

It's possibly stopped me from getting it. The vaccine protects you from catching it but it isn't 100% failsafe. No vaccine is 100% effective. So if you've been in close contact with someone who has it then you need to isolate.

The chances ofeither my wife or my daughter (who have also been vaccinated) actually having it are very small. But we're all doing the right thing and putting up with being in isolation, not to benefit ourselves - obviously, but to help protect the rest of the community.

One person in the local shopping centre got it from the idiot who wasn't vaccinated simply by walking past him (cctv confirmed this). There's an old people's home directly opposite where I live. If my wife had caught it and someone walked past her literally outside our front door on the way to see an elderly family member then we could have covid spread throughout that facility. And she'd be responsible for those deaths.

What is it about all of this that you just don't get? You're either ignorant of the dangers - which I find impossible to believe, or you just don't care.

To them, it's a political thing. They don't want to do it just because 'liberals' are for it. Like I said, liberals are for breathing oxygen too, so you might as well hold your breath in protest.

 

[The happy Objectivist]

On a forum which has a lot of conspiracy followers, who also express anti government sentiments, the rights of individuals to behave as they like etc.
60% would never take the vaccine, 20% would wait, 20% would take it

The central position of the group was cynicism and seeing outsiders as evil and to be not trusted. Anything that seemed to suggest this was unwise an approach was rejected as lies and any conspiracy theory no matter how ludicrous was obviously true.

The motivation was to avoid making the choice and leaving the status quo as it is.
So I wondered if this is more about politics and world outlook, than anything objective.

It has shocked me something so unbelievably scientific and open, with all the information about mRNA and use of cold viruses etc are accessible, along with study results, such a level of doubt exists, especially among a community who claim to follow truth and love.

In my church, there is as far as I know a 100% acceptance of the vaccine, and many being 60+ are looking for some reassurance, and often are literally only alive today because of the medical support they have received over their lives, to a degree of 50% of the congregation or more are still here and would not be without medicine.

So what is actually going on? Is it actually a distortion due to the internet and who comes to forums or some other ethical, world view issue?

I will not take it. I don't trust the people pushing it, I don't trust anything the government says about anything. I don't trust the CDC, the WHO and every other alphabet agency. I live very isolated and I'm more afraid of the vaccine than I am the virus. My 25 year old niece took it and now is having serious heart problems. As far as politics, I'm neither a Democrat or a Republican. I'm an Objectivist by philosophy. When Nobel prize winning virologists and ex drug company researchers and execs are warning against this thing, I pay attention. I know of more people in my area who have died after having the vaccine than from the virus. So, no, not yet anyway.

 

[Aldebaran]

It's possibly stopped me from getting it. The vaccine protects you from catching it but it isn't 100% failsafe. No vaccine is 100% effective. So if you've been in close contact with someone who has it then you need to isolate.

The "nothing is 100%" seems to work both ways, doesn't it? It's been cited as the reason to get it because it's better than nothing, while at the same time it's being used as a reason to isolate people who are vaccinated. Interesting.

The chances ofeither my wife or my daughter (who have also been vaccinated) actually having it are very small. But we're all doing the right thing and putting up with being in isolation, not to benefit ourselves - obviously, but to help protect the rest of the community.

Did you ever isolate when coming in contact with someone who had the Flu? How many Flu deaths happen every year? The Flu shot isn't even 50% effective.

One person in the local shopping centre got it from the idiot who wasn't vaccinated simply by walking past him (cctv confirmed this). There's an old people's home directly opposite where I live. If my wife had caught it and someone walked past her literally outside our front door on the way to see an elderly family member then we could have covid spread throughout that facility. And she'd be responsible for those deaths.

"Walking past someone in the street or having a jogger run by you, means you're close together for a few seconds at most.

Fleeting encounters are highly unlikely to be long enough for enough virus to reach you."
Covid: Can you catch the virus outside?

What is it about all of this that you just don't get? You're either ignorant of the dangers - which I find impossible to believe, or you just don't care.

Nope! Just listening to the "science", which I'm sure the BBC is relaying to us.

 

[Strathos]

Did you ever consider that the reason people are 'pushing' it so much is because millions of people have already died from this virus, many more have been permanently damaged, and the entire world wants things to get back to normal?

If everyone had taken the proper advice about mask wearing and social distancing last year, this pandemic would probably be completely under control by now. If everyone took the vaccine, we'd have herd immunity, and it would be a thing of the past. But because of the conspiracy-minded folks, we're going to have a lot more suffering, death, and lockdowns before we get this thing under control, if we ever do. So thanks a lot.

 

[Aldebaran]

If everyone had taken the proper advice about mask wearing and social distancing last year, this pandemic would probably be completely under control by now. If everyone took the vaccine, we'd have herd immunity, and it would be a thing of the past. But because of the conspiracy-minded folks, we're going to have a lot more suffering, death, and lockdowns before we get this thing under control, if we ever do. So thanks a lot.

That's what they claim. Yet people who are vaccinated still believe they're going to catch the virus from an unvaccinated person, and those who are vaccinated are still being quarantined if they came in contact with an unvaccinated person (see post #62).

 

[Bradskii]

The "nothing is 100%" seems to work both ways, doesn't it? It's been cited as the reason to get it because it's better than nothing, while at the same time it's being used as a reason to isolate people who are vaccinated. Interesting.

Did you ever isolate when coming in contact with someone who had the Flu? How many Flu deaths happen every year? The Flu shot isn't even 50% effective.

"Walking past someone in the street or having a jogger run by you, means you're close together for a few seconds at most.

We'll all isolate when in direct contact with someone who has it until we get herd immunity. Well, those of us who are taking this seriously will. We'll do the hard yards. You seem to care less.

And flu deaths in the US last year were around 20,000 plus. Deaths from covid? A still horrifyingly and barely credible 600,000. I remember telling someone online that it might reach a quarter of a million and I was ridiculed.

And one of the persons in Sydney who now has it simply and literally walked past the spreader. I mean literally walked through a department store floor en route to another level with no physical contact whatsoever. It's that contageous. If that guy had walked past the old people's home as someone was going in then who knows what the results would be.

 

[Aldebaran]

We'll all isolate when in direct contact with someone who has it until we get herd immunity. Well, those of us who are taking this seriously will. We'll do the hard yards. You seem to care less.

You keep talking about "herd immunity" when I'm talking about personal immunity. If you have the vaccine in you, then you don't need to isolate just because there are others who aren't vaccinated.

And flu deaths in the US last year were around 20,000 plus. Deaths from covid? A still horrifyingly and barely credible 600,000. I remember telling someone online that it might reach a quarter of a million and I was ridiculed.

Actually, the Flu death number is between 290,000 to 650,000 globally according to the CDC. This Is How Many People Die From the Flu Each Year
You can't really go by last year's figures alone, even though that's the number often cited because it doesn't measure up to Covid's death count. Gotta reduce the competition, it would seem.

And one of the persons in Sydney who now has it simply and literally walked past the spreader. I mean literally walked through a department store floor en route to another level with no physical contact whatsoever. It's that contageous. If that guy had walked past the old people's home as someone was going in then who knows what the results would be.

There's no way to know if that's the person the one in question caught it from. He could have gotten it from someone else.

 

[Bradskii]

There's no way to know if that's the person the one in question caught it from. He could have gotten it from someone else.

It's not that big an outbreak (yet). All contacts have been traced. That was his only one. He literally walked past him.

Edit: And the US covid death rate, just on it's own, has exceeded the world death rate for flu. How can you not take this seriously when 0.6 billion of your citizens are dead?

 

[Aldebaran]

It's not that big an outbreak (yet). All contacts have been traced. That was his only one. He literally walked past him.

In order to know where the virus is, they'd have to be able to track the virus itself. There's no way to know for sure who has it and who doesn't, especially when so many cases are asymptomatic.

I
Edit: And the US covid death rate, just on it's own, has exceeded the world death rate for flu. How can you not take this seriously when 0.6 billion of your citizens are dead?

Can't you just say 600,000? What's the point of telling me what tiny fraction of a billion it is? Why not take it to the trillions while you're at it? Telling me which fraction of a billion makes you sound desperate to amplify the facts.

 

[Bradskii]

In order to know where the virus is, they'd have to be able to track the virus itself. There's no way to know for sure who has it and who doesn't, especially when so many cases are asymptomatic.

Can't you just say 600,000? What's the point of telling me what tiny fraction of a billion it is? Why not take it to the trillions while you're at it? Telling me which fraction of a billion makes you sound desperate to amplify the facts.

Thousands of people are getting tested in the suburb. We know where this outbreak started. We know how it progressed. We know how and where and when it was transmitted. We know who has it and who doesn't. The people who need to isolate are doing so.

From what you've been posting, if you lived here you wouldn't have got vaccinated. You probably wouldn't get tested. You wouldn't isolate. You'd be part of the problem.

And yeah, well over a half a billion does sound a lot, doesn't it...

 

[Aldebaran]

Thousands of people are getting tested in the suburb. We know where this outbreak started. We know how it progressed. We know how and where and when it was transmitted. We know who has it and who doesn't. The people who need to isolate are doing so.

The arrogance of those who rely on "science" as the answer to everything claiming, "We know" about everything concerning something that's only been around for a year hasn't been able to keep an outbreak from happening.

From what you've been posting, if you lived here you wouldn't have got vaccinated. You probably wouldn't get tested. You wouldn't isolate. You'd be part of the problem.

And yet I got the J&J shot about a month ago. You don't know me very well.

And yeah, well over a half a billion does sound a lot, doesn't it...

Is that why you worded it that way?

 

[Bradskii]

The arrogance of those who rely on "science" as the answer to everything claiming, "We know" about everything concerning something that's only been around for a year hasn't been able to keep an outbreak from happening.

We know how to stop it. We get everyone to get vaccinated and keep a check on variations to it. We did quite well down here. You...not so much.

But let me know if you have anything to contribute to it's prevention that's not too 'sciency' for you. Although any suggestions that you have might have been more useful before deaths equivalent to the population of Wyoming had happened.

And my error of 0.6 billion slips by unoticed. I'm not sure what that really shows. That I made a simple numerical typo or that you have no concept of the numbers dead and the figures don't mean much to you anyway. So a figure of over a half billion is 'meh - it just sounds bigger'.

 

[Aldebaran]

We know how to stop it. We get everyone to get vaccinated and keep a check on variations to it. We did quite well down here. You...not so much.

We're reopening and not needing masks anymore. You're being quarantined. We're doing fine.

But let me know if you have anything to contribute to it's prevention that's not too 'sciency' for you. Although any suggestions that you have might have been more useful before deaths equivalent to the population of Wyoming had happened.

How about being open-minded when treatments were being proposed rather than silencing and banning the people from social media who made the proposals? How about encouraging early hospital treatment of Covid rather than turning patients away until they couldn't even breathe? Is that less "sciency" enough for you?

And my error of 0.6 billion slips by unoticed. I'm not sure what that really shows. That I made a simple numerical typo or that you have no concept of the numbers dead and the figures don't mean much to you anyway. So a figure of over a half billion is 'meh - it just sounds bigger'.

Just say 600,000 instead of your more colorful descriptions and you'd actually be accurate. Sensationalism is inferior to facts.

 

[Bradskii]

We're reopening and not needing masks anymore. You're being quarantined. We're doing fine.

How about being open-minded when treatments were being proposed rather than silencing and banning the people from social media who made the proposals?

All those who aren't dead are doing great. And you can go with any social media recommendations for treatment you like. Weren't you pushing claims made by that group who has a member (Dr. Immanuel) who says that alien dna is being used in some medicines? And that gynecalogical problems are caused by having sex with demons. Yep, you can listen to those guys all you want.

 

[Aldebaran]

All those who aren't dead are doing great.

Perhaps some of them wouldn't have died if they hadn't been blocked from information that could have allowed them treatment when the hospitals were turning them away because their sickness hadn't become advanced enough.

And you can go with any social media recommendations for treatment you like. Weren't you pushing claims made by that group who has a member (Dr. Immanuel) who says that alien dna is being used in some medicines? And that gynecalogical problems are caused by having sex with demons. Yep, you can listen to those guys all you want.

Looks like you have me confused with someone else.

 

[Strathos]

That's what they claim. Yet people who are vaccinated still believe they're going to catch the virus from an unvaccinated person, and those who are vaccinated are still being quarantined if they came in contact with an unvaccinated person (see post #62).

Didn't I explain this to you already? No vaccine is 100% effective. If we have a vaccine that is 95% effective, that means that you can be exposed to the virus 20 times before you're likely to catch it. I don't know about you, but I would like to routinely interact with more than 20 people. If all of those people are unvaccinated, it's a huge risk. If all of them are vaccinated, though, the chance of catching it from any of them goes from 1 in 20 to 1 in 400. If 95% of the people each of those 20 people regularly interact with are also vaccinated, the chance goes down to 1 in 8000. And so on. The more people who are vaccinated, the safer we all are. Anyone who took grade school math should be able to understand this.

If you want to demand that a vaccine be 100% effective before you'll take it, then you'll never get that. It's not a magic shield that makes you invincible to the virus. Expecting it to be is childish. We're all in this together, and it's our responsibility to do everything we can to keep as many people safe as possible.

 

[Aldebaran]

Didn't I explain this to you already? No vaccine is 100% effective. If we have a vaccine that is 95% effective, that means that you can be exposed to the virus 20 times before you're likely to catch it. I don't know about you, but I would like to routinely interact with more than 20 people. If all of those people are unvaccinated, it's a huge risk. If all of them are vaccinated, though, the chance of catching it from any of them goes from 1 in 20 to 1 in 400. If 95% of the people each of those 20 people regularly interact with are also vaccinated, the chance goes down to 1 in 8000. And so on. The more people who are vaccinated, the safer we all are. Anyone who took grade school math should be able to understand this.

If you want to demand that a vaccine be 100% effective before you'll take it, then you'll never get that. It's not a magic shield that makes you invincible to the virus. Expecting it to be is childish. We're all in this together, and it's our responsibility to do everything we can to keep as many people safe as possible.

No vaccine is 100%, and no population is going to be 100% shamed into a vaccine that hasn't even passed all the testing needed to be approved as a vaccine. We have to live with what we have and quit being so paranoid that we don't even live our lives, but rather isolate ourselves in our basement because we walked past someone who may not have gotten the magic shot.

 

[Bradskii]

We have to live with what we have and quit being so paranoid that we don't even live our lives...

The irony is painful.