Vaccine / religious belief correlation

[BensonInABox]

There are too many stories of autism related to vaccines.

Courts quietly confirm MMR Vaccine causes Autism

Right. These rulings don't confirm anything. Mojabi was a table injury ruling. All you have to do is establish that the child has the condition and the onset was within a certain window after getting a vaccine, and then compensation is automatic.

Post Hoc, Ergo Propter Hoc.

Autism wasn't even mentioned in the Moller ruling.

 

[DogmaHunter]

Well, really, that's the way the word is normally used. I'd be very interested to be corrected on that point if the OP had members of non-Western religions in mind

"Non-western" religions?

Christianity is not a western religion. It comes from roughly the exact same place as judaism and islam. It's dominant in western culture today, yes.

In any case, fundies are found everywhere.

, especially since we can hardly tell who the fundamentalists are when it comes to Islam

It's not harder to tell muslim "moderates" from "fundies" then it is to tell christian "moderates" from "fundies" dude.

They are the exact same species, merely a different breed - to put it in a bio analogy.

Then too, the OP spoke of the issue in this way--"vaccine efficacy / safety"--and asked for the readers if they'd vaccinate their own family members. Are there any Taliban members here at CF?

Stop playing the "oppressed victim card".

 

[DogmaHunter]

You think that it is limited to just that one boy band? Interesting!

That made me smile

 

[[serious]]

There are too many stories of autism related to vaccines.

Courts quietly confirm MMR Vaccine causes Autism

HHS agreed that "Ryan suffered a Table injury under the Vaccine Act -- namely, an encephalitis within five to fifteen days following receipt," of MMR, records show. "This case is appropriate for compensation."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-kirby/post2468343_b_2468343.html

That site is lying to you. the court did not rule based on the autism diagnosis. it ruled based on the encephalitis.

 

[Albion]

"Non-western" religions?

Christianity is not a western religion. It comes from roughly the exact same place as judaism and islam. It's dominant in western culture today, yes.

Get back to me if you want to resume discussing the issues.

 

[riona]

I'm gonna guess that there is such a correlation, especially among fundamentalists.
Atheist
Obviously... I think it's even required by law to do so. I'm not actually sure, because I'm not aware of anyone over here crazy enough not to vaccinate their children.
But I'm pretty sure that certain vaccinations are required by law.

It's actually not.
Most public schools require it, but there's no laws supporting them. It's just their policy.
So far parents still have the right to decide what medical treatments are best for their kids.

I didn't say "hope". I said that I "expected" that to be the outcome.

fundamentalism
/ˌfʌndəˈmɛntəˌlɪzəm/
noun
1.
(Christianity) the belief that every word of the Bible is divinely inspired and therefore true
2.
(Islam) a movement favouring strict observance of the teachings of the Koran and Islamic law
3.
strict adherence to the fundamental principles of any set of beliefs

The only part of that definition that makes sense to me is #1... but then I guess I (gullibly?) thought all Christian religions believed that every word of the bible is divinely inspired and therefore true.

My religious beliefs really never had any bearing on my decision not to vaccinate my kids. Research into what is actually IN them did and does.
Although one could argue that if you support vaccinations then you support abortions, which we all know is pretty well against all Christian beliefs. (I say this because there are aborted fetal tissue in certain ones.) I am not arguing this, I'm just saying one COULD.

I have never heard mention of any of my granola hippy, super crunchy mom friends including religion having any bearing on their decision not to vaccinate either. We're all about anti-chemicals, anti-toxins, and personal research accountability.

 

[Oafman]

I say this because there are aborted fetal tissue in certain ones.

Seriously?

 

[riona]

Seriously?

Yes.
It's been a while since I did my research, so I don't have my bookmarks handy (new laptop). But the information is out there.. and since this isn't a vaccine debate, I won't derail the thread by getting into a big discussion about what is in them.

 

[outsidethecamp]

Seriously?

Actually,
Some vaccines, including the Mumps Measles Rubella (MMR) vaccine, contain killed viruses. The viruses are cultured in aborted fetal tissue. Regarding the MMR vaccine, the CDC states:

http://autism.about.com/od/medicalissuesandautis1/f/vaxfetal.htm

 

[outsidethecamp]

I have never heard mention of any of my granola hippy, super crunchy mom friends including religion having any bearing on their decision not to vaccinate either. We're all about anti-chemicals, anti-toxins, and personal research accountability.

I would agree with you. I know non-Christians that are skeptical and wary of vaccines because they are anti-chemicals, anti-toxins and think for themselves rather than allow foreign substances to be injected into their bodies without detailed explanation. Why would anyone think that this behavior is relegated to the "fundy" camp?

 

[Oafman]

Yes.
It's been a while since I did my research, so I don't have my bookmarks handy (new laptop). But the information is out there.. and since this isn't a vaccine debate, I won't derail the thread by getting into a big discussion about what is in them.

Actually,
Some vaccines, including the Mumps Measles Rubella (MMR) vaccine, contain killed viruses. The viruses are cultured in aborted fetal tissue. Regarding the MMR vaccine, the CDC states:

http://autism.about.com/od/medicalissuesandautis1/f/vaxfetal.htm

Here is a Christian doctor who 'abhors abortion' explaining how vaccines do not contain fetal tissue, or anything grown in fetal tissue:

Vaccine Myth #13: Vaccinations are made from aborted babies

Please read it, for the sake of your and other peoples' children.

 

[outsidethecamp]

Here is a Christian doctor who 'abhors abortion' explaining how vaccines do not contain fetal tissue, or anything grown in fetal tissue:

Vaccine Myth #13: Vaccinations are made from aborted babies

Please read it, for the sake of your and other peoples' children.

There is much more reading that should be done, "for the sake of your and other people's children".

 

[Oafman]

There is much more reading that should be done, "for the sake of your and other people's children".

Which part do you think he's wrong about?

 

[BensonInABox]

...anti-chemicals...

That's kind of difficult to pull off. Don't like water, food, air etc?

Or for that matter, anything made of matter?

 

[riona]

That's kind of difficult to pull off. Don't like water, food, air etc?

Or for that matter, anything made of matter?

Unfortunately you are very correct. :-/ there's not much left in our world that hasn't been effected by chemicals.
I cannot control many things that my kids and I are exposed to, however I do what I can to limit that exposure. I use a Berkey water filter and non-flourinated toothpaste, buy organic foods for those I don't grow myself, I read labels consistently, use natural cleaners and soaps, and refuse vaccinations and most modern medications by utilizing herbs and essential oils instead
.
To stay on topic, none of these choices have been made based on my religious beliefs. I don't ask God what products to buy (although I bet it wouldn't hurt). I actually like to consider what was done in the pioneer days when I make a lot of my day to day decisions.

 

[Oafman]

Unfortunately you are very correct. :-/ there's not much left in our world that hasn't been effected by chemicals.
I cannot control many things that my kids and I are exposed to, however I do what I can to limit that exposure. I use a Berkey water filter and non-flourinated toothpaste, buy organic foods for those I don't grow myself, I read labels consistently, use natural cleaners and soaps, and refuse vaccinations and most modern medications by utilizing herbs and essential oils instead
.
To stay on topic, none of these choices have been made based on my religious beliefs. I don't ask God what products to buy (although I bet it wouldn't hurt). I actually like to consider what was done in the pioneer days when I make a lot of my day to day decisions.

Do you have any idea how much sodium hydroxide they put into 'natural' soap?

 

[keith99]

I'd actually expect the opposite given that antivax tends to be more of an issue in traditionally liberal states, which tend to be less ideologically christian.

Interesting thought. More than enough to trigger a second thought or two, especially since the thread has drifted from religious to specifically Christian.

I'll raise the question. What is the religious affiliation of Liberal State anti vaxers? I'm inclined to think not many are declared atheists.

If we look at outbreaks over the last 40 years religious groups clearly correlate, especially if one tracks deaths and/or serious complications. But that is a bit misleading because when a church is anti vax it results in a pocket of at risks individuals and once one gets infected it spreads like in prevaccine days. So far outbreaks not tied to organized religious groups have almost all died out before getting too bad. So far.

EDIT:
Atheist. And yes baring any real medical reason any kids would get vaccinated. I'm now almost up to date on all adult vaccinations. Yes there are some adults should have and not just flu and most of us either are or have been out of date for tetanus. We should do better as adults. (I'm a have been on tetanus, good for a while now).

 

[BensonInABox]

Unfortunately you are very correct. :-/ there's not much left in our world that hasn't been effected by chemicals.
I cannot control many things that my kids and I are exposed to, however I do what I can to limit that exposure. I use a Berkey water filter and non-flourinated toothpaste, buy organic foods for those I don't grow myself, I read labels consistently, use natural cleaners and soaps, and refuse vaccinations and most modern medications by utilizing herbs and essential oils instead
.
To stay on topic, none of these choices have been made based on my religious beliefs. I don't ask God what products to buy (although I bet it wouldn't hurt). I actually like to consider what was done in the pioneer days when I make a lot of my day to day decisions.

LOL not exactly my point. Water, food, the constituent parts of air? All chemicals. Everything that is made of matter is a chemical.

And you really should get your kids vaccinated. There's a very good reason we live so much longer in this day and age. It's called modern medicine.

Herbs and essential oils are, by and large, snake oil.

 

[riona]

Do you have any idea how much sodium hydroxide they put into 'natural' soap?

In lye based soaps, I imagine quite a lot.
Fortunately there are more natural options out there.
And again, this is veering off topic, so I suggest if you would like to know of others you look into them.

 

[riona]

LOL not exactly my point. Water, food, the constituent parts of air? All chemicals. Everything that isn't abstract is a chemical.

And you really should get your kids vaccinated. There's a very good reason we live so much longer in this day and age. It's called modern medicine.

Herbs and essential oils are, by and large, snake oil.

I am sure there are plenty of opinions I could formulate against you about what I believe you should do that you're not doing.
But I'm a live and let live kind of person.
Your personal opinion about herbs and essential oils is just that- your opinion.
What exactly do you think people did for so long before modern medicine? When someone was cut, did they not go seek out plantain leaves (not the fruit, the plant) to make a paste out of to withdraw the bacteria? When someone had a headache did they not steep feverfew root into a tea to drink? Herbs and essential oils are nothing more than plants, which were given to us BY GOD to use for medicine.
Again- we are moving off topic. So I could say that my use of herbs and essential oils IS driven by my religion, since I trust God a heck of a lot more than a scientist in a lab putting synthetic chemicals into a vial together to see what happens.