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Vaccine passports

Discussion in 'Scripture,Tradition,Reason-Anglican & Old Catholic' started by Paidiske, Sep 6, 2021.

  1. The Liturgist

    The Liturgist Traditional Liturgical Christian Supporter

    +3,506
    United States
    Generic Orthodox Christian
    Celibate
    Ok, I did not realize that. But it seems to me in that case streaming services might be your best option?

    In terms of the Eucharist, does your archdiocese allow the reservation and distribution of the consecrated gifts?
     
  2. Paidiske

    Paidiske Clara bonam audax Supporter

    +17,290
    Australia
    Anglican
    Married
    I'm streaming morning prayer services, but it's problematic for two reasons. 1) About one-third of my congregation don't use either computers or the internet, and 2) it's a poor substitute for actual participation in the liturgy.

    Yes, I can take reserved sacrament to people, and might end up having to do that.

    It's interesting; the local ministers' fraternal met (over Zoom) yesterday, and - truly a miracle, for we never all agree on anything - we all agreed that for us, the idea of having to turn away unvaccinated people was something we felt we couldn't go along with, without protest. We're planning to approach our local member and raise our concerns and explore options, with a hope that the government won't put us in that position.
     
  3. The Liturgist

    The Liturgist Traditional Liturgical Christian Supporter

    +3,506
    United States
    Generic Orthodox Christian
    Celibate
    Although I strongly support vaccination, I really respect you for doing that!

    As a compromise position if your initial request is denied, do you have any disused parishes, or parish halls, that could be used to serve these people? Or alternate service locations near each parish?
     
  4. Paidiske

    Paidiske Clara bonam audax Supporter

    +17,290
    Australia
    Anglican
    Married
    The issue isn't the venue... it's the gathering of people at all. We're currently in very strict lockdown (only allowed to leave home for essential work, essential shopping, caregiving, seeking medical attention and exercising/recreation outdoors. Each of those things has lots of limits on it, for example, you can't meet up and exercise in a group outdoors). There are a few additional caveats, like you can leave home if you're fleeing DV.

    The idea seems to be that at first, only vaccinated people will have the list of things they're allowed to do expanded. So as we come out of lockdown, going to the pub, or a restaurant, or the hairdresser, or a sporting event, or visiting your loved ones in their home, or being in any other place where people interact, or travelling outside your local area - all things currently not allowed - might be made available only to the vaccinated.

    And that's where the sore point is...
     
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  5. Bobber

    Bobber Well-Known Member

    +2,737
    Non-Denom
    So basically what such a society would be is putting people under house arrest that don't get vaccinated. I have to wonder if the greater number of society, the vaccinated...will they really feel good about this? It might sound good on paper but once you really get into such segregation maybe it's like having a shower with your socks on.....it just doesn't feel right to the point they just can't stand it being that way and finally resist against it.
     
  6. Paidiske

    Paidiske Clara bonam audax Supporter

    +17,290
    Australia
    Anglican
    Married
    At the moment, it has very strong public support, because it's seen as a way out of strict lockdown that is less likely to end in mass death. Whether that strong support is still felt in, say, six months or a year, remains to be seen.
     
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  7. Bobber

    Bobber Well-Known Member

    +2,737
    Non-Denom
    I've been thinking lots about this. Yeah people do tend to focus on what they perceive to be their rights from their country's constitution. Some view it as cowardice to comply to something you shouldn't have to do but I have been thinking of Jesus in Matt 17:24 . He yielded to something he technically shouldn't have had to do by paying the temple tax. Matt 17:24 Maybe the Lord now as well as then isn't caught up in always having us retain what we think our rights are but sometimes maybe he's called us to set those aside so we be not hindered in more important things? That's what I've been wondering about.
     
  8. Philip_B

    Philip_B grace upon grace Supporter

    +5,223
    Australia
    Anglican
    Married
    At the moment it is being used as the carrot on the end of the stick to try to make everyone embrace it. Does it mean that come some percentage point of double vaccination that one group of people will be able to go out in great numbers and engage the the practice of vertical consumption of alcohol? Probably not for the moment. Will we have to check the vaccination status of each member of the congregation before we allow them to come into the church? How would we feel about that? At the moment we do not know what is on the table, save that there will be some freedoms that we no longer have.

    Remember how powerful communal prayer is now recognised, for we can't have five people quietly sitting in Church, but it is OK to let 50,000 go to the football. It is what it is for the moment, and I can contend with that, however I have some concerns about where we may be going.
     
  9. MarkRohfrietsch

    MarkRohfrietsch Unapologetic Apologist Supporter

    +4,610
    Canada
    Lutheran
    Married
    For two periods of lock-downs, (allowed a maximum of 10 people in Church) when we could only stream services and we did matins.

    We are currently allowed 60% occupancy (although with social distancing, it is closer to 30%), and masking is mandatory, and we take very seriously the 6' social distancing rule. We continue to follow provincial rules regarding covid tracking, and people must register before service. If we are booked, we are booked, and we offer them the next Sunday. (we keep some seating open for walk-ins, and we get a few who are not members every month, whos Churches remain closed.
    We have roped off pews, seating family groups together. Limited singing; no opening or closing hymns, Liturgy, hymn of the day, distribution hymns only. For Eucharist, people come up in family groups, one or more persons. Recently, we again have allowed kneeling for the Eucharist, and most do. The serving Deacon (Elder) wipes the rail after each group with disinfectant wipes. Pastor sanitizes his hands between each group, handles the hose with tweezers, and the host is given in the hand only (for now), Individual cups are the norm, but the Chalice remains an option. Only a few of us use it (Pastor, Deacon, and a few others who chose to do so. When we take the Eucharist to those who physically can not approach the Altar, but Pastor and Deacon sanitize. They all have chosen to use the common cup. We have operated more or less this way since we were allowed to reopen, some of that time was pre-vax, later as people were vaccinated, and now with only a handful not vaccinated, we don't see any more need to segregate or discriminate against our members.
     
  10. MarkRohfrietsch

    MarkRohfrietsch Unapologetic Apologist Supporter

    +4,610
    Canada
    Lutheran
    Married
    We have clarification.

    We will not be required to ask for passports, but for the time being, we will need to continue to follow the distancing, masking and tracking protocols. We are also exempt from doing so for classes and activities in our parish hall... but social distancing and masks indoors are mandatory.

    Outdoor activity at the gun club is now wide open, and the indoor range still requires Covid protocols, no passports required.

    Not much is changing for me. LOL
     
  11. Paidiske

    Paidiske Clara bonam audax Supporter

    +17,290
    Australia
    Anglican
    Married
    That seems reasonable. We are still waiting here. The neighbouring state just put out a plan which will mean if you have mixed groups (vaccinated and unvaccinated) the numbers have to be much smaller, but I could live with that.
     
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