Vaccine passports

Paidiske

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Note: this is in the Anglican forum.

Just wondering how/if others are navigating the question of vaccine passports?

We're currently in lockdown where I am, but it's looking somewhere on a spectrum of possible-to-likely that as lockdown is gradually lifted, at first the government will only allow gatherings for those who fully vaccinated.

This will be fraught for churches. Shall we turn away the unvaccinated? How will we meet their needs? Or shall we defy the government and welcome everyone? How will that play out?

Any thoughts, experiences, or wisdom from others welcome as I try to think through the way ahead.
 

Paidiske

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Given that the first gatherings allowed have been announced as groups of five, meeting outside, all to be double-vaccinated, I'm not sure small groups are going to be the answer.

I can still do home visits under current restrictions, so in theory everyone can still have access to the sacraments and other spiritual resources. But it's not the same.
 
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seeking.IAM

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Vaccine passports are not a thing here. I live in a very conservative state where folks are quite divided on taking preventative measures at all. (The "It's my right; you can't tell me what to do" folks). I believe that most of my church is vaccinated, although I cannot be certain of that.

Our biggest concern in church has been our little children who cannot be vaccinated yet. Currently, we have reserved one section of the Nave as mask-required/distant seating with the larger portion of the Nave as mask-optional/normal seating. With spiking numbers and virus variants, I am seeing more people move to the mask required section.

Our Vestry recently reviewed our policy and decided to "encourage" but not require all worshippers to wear masks in the building. Yesterday was our first Sunday of that, and I wasn't there to see how it worked out. I, personally, would have favored something more restrictive.
 
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PloverWing

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Just wondering how/if others are navigating the question of vaccine passports?

As you know, the US has been more relaxed about its lockdowns than Australia. We've also had much less success suppressing COVID than Australia. :(

We don't have vaccine passports here, but we do have vaccination cards.

When our parish first returned to indoor in-person services in November 2020, everybody was required to mask. In spring 2021, as the vaccine became available, we implemented this policy: If you show your vaccination card to the priest, you can attend without a mask; otherwise, you may still attend, but you are required to mask. Now that the delta variant is rampant, we have returned to everyone masking in church, regardless of vaccination status. We have been streaming our services on Zoom and Facebook throughout, so a number of our unvaccinated members and members with fragile health have been attending virtually.

One of the parishes near us has been holding services outdoors, and that can be a good option if your parish has a good outdoor space.

I really don't like the idea of churches defying government lockdown restrictions, because it communicates that the government cares more about people's health than the church does. Here in the US, Christianity is getting the reputation that Christians only care about themselves, and don't care about other people, and that's pretty awful for us. My strong preference is to follow the science (in the US, that's the CDC's recommendations) and be as cautious as we need to be, to protect the health of our neighbors.
 
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Albion

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Given that the first gatherings allowed have been announced as groups of five, meeting outside, all to be double-vaccinated, I'm not sure small groups are going to be the answer.

I can still do home visits under current restrictions, so in theory everyone can still have access to the sacraments and other spiritual resources. But it's not the same.

Agreed. None of the possible "solutions" work with a large parish.

In the USA, some churches simply defied the announced regulations and risked the authorities taking action against them. Sometimes it happened and some times it did not. Sometimes, social distancing inside the nave was enough, apparently, to keep any contagion down. And there were changes made to the distribution of the sacrament.

Some defiant churches did appear to spread the virus, but others seemingly were spared that outcome. Why that was exactly, I don't think anyone can say.

The most frequent approach was to telecast the service and hope that home visits, small groups, and other such stopgap measures could provide some continuity for awhile.

In other words, there isn't any great solution unless the parish is small enough that holding additional services, monitoring the seating, asking for masks, and so on will do.
 
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The OP did say this is the Anglican forum. This thread is about how members of the Anglican Church are coping with the question of Vaccine passports.
ADMIN HAT OFF
 
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Paidiske

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FWIW, I'd be happy to hear from folks in other denominations, if they have something constructive to offer. I just don't really want input that amounts to ignoring Anglican norms and ethos, or Anglican-bashing.

@Paidiske : As others have noted in this thread, solutions that work for a parish of 50 may not work for a parish of 500. How large is your parish? (More practically, how many people typically attended on Sundays, pre-COVID)?

Well, I wasn't here pre-Covid, but when things were more open before this lockdown, I was getting an average weekly attendance of about 70 people. I would note, though, that that wasn't necessarily the same 70 people every week, so the pool of regulars would be somewhat bigger.

The nub of the problem for me is this: I may only have a very small number of people who come regularly who choose not to vaccinate. But how do I respond to and care for them? And how do I respond to unvaccinated visitors? Is something that's reasonable in the short term sustainable indefinitely? I must admit I have some sympathy with the never-turn-anyone-away position, but in this instance that does leave me with other problems!
 
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A_Thinker

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FWIW, I'd be happy to hear from folks in other denominations, if they have something constructive to offer. I just don't really want input that amounts to ignoring Anglican norms and ethos, or Anglican-bashing.



Well, I wasn't here pre-Covid, but when things were more open before this lockdown, I was getting an average weekly attendance of about 70 people. I would note, though, that that wasn't necessarily the same 70 people every week, so the pool of regulars would be somewhat bigger.

The nub of the problem for me is this: I may only have a very small number of people who come regularly who choose not to vaccinate. But how do I respond to and care for them? And how do I respond to unvaccinated visitors? Is something that's reasonable in the short term sustainable indefinitely? I must admit I have some sympathy with the never-turn-anyone-away position, but in this instance that does leave me with other problems!
Actually, if you're vaccinated, you don't have much to fear from someone who is unvaccinated.

Hopefully we'll soon be in the typical state of bring mostly vaccinated, with just a few hold-outs ...
 
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MarkRohfrietsch

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Well, I'm not Anglican, but here is what our province is doing. Passports come into effect here in Ontario on the 22nd of this month. Churches, essential services (including medical services, industry, most stores and others) are exempt from the Passport requirements. Non-essential things like theatres, sports events as well as public transportation are not. However exempt entities are free to implement passports if they see fit. For example, Bereavement Authority of Ontario is requiring Passports for Funerals and Visitations, or a negative test a maximum of 48 hours before the event after the 22nd; Two weeks later, only a passport; negative tests will not be accepted. Naturally a person who is exempt for a valid reason, may attend any event where they are required.

I support this, and I would certainly support mandatory vaccinations. Having studied epidemiology, and seeing the data from this pandemic, there is no reasonable way to argue against the virtues and effectiveness of vaccination. Vaccination is a way to express my freedom and liberty to help protect my brothers and sisters in this world!
 
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Sean611

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This is a really difficult topic and I am sure one that many of us feel very passionately about. In my own parish (United States, Holy Catholic Church Anglican Rite), the bishop has made it clear that he is not going to ask for vaccine papers or require parishioners to take have the vaccination in order to attend services. Furthermore, the bishop (or deacon) uses the intinction method and places the wafer on the communicants tongue and we are somewhat socially distant. Now, this is the way it has been over the last few months, I am not sure what the practices were last year during the lockdowns.

I just want to add that during our provincial synod, we heard from a deacon in El Paso, Texas (Mission of Our Lady of the Abandoned) who has been ministering and comforting the covid patients in the various hospitals in the area since the pandemic started. To date, he has seen over 1500 die of the illness and was with them in some of their most desperate moments before passing on. He was one of the only priests (pastors, ministers) of any denomination or affiliation doing this type of work in El Paso and continues to take great risks performing this ministry. In my mind this is the work of a saint and whatever the future holds, I hope we can all be more like this deacon and put our faith in Christ in times of great turmoil.
 
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hedrick

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When there were tight limits on indoor gathering, and it was too cold to do an outdoor meeting, we had drive in services. I think they used low power broadcast to the car radios, though maybe they supplied small speakers. It worked, but we didn’t have to do it for long. Mostly, we had very small in person meetings by reservation, broadcast using zoom.

The PCUSA permits remote virtual communion., where members of the congregation supply their own elements at home but they are consecrated (if you use that term) in the virtual service. We don’t have a distance limit for how far that works, since Buzz Aldrin participated in a communion from the moon.

Staff and volunteers have spent a lot of time running church services and Sunday School during this period. We seem to have done a better job than many congregations. We have always complied with State rules, and often had somewhat tighter rules than the state. It would be really hard for a minister to do this without a lot of help.
 
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hedrick

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Vaccine passports are political dynamite in the US. Several states have apps that let you verify vaccination status, but in our state it is most certainly not a vaccination passport.

There are some specific events in some states that require vaccination, maybe that or a negative test, but it’s not common. I haven’t heard of a church requiring it. Our Sunday School program wants to be able to tell parents that all teachers are vaccinated, and I believe they are, but it was never quite stated as a requirement.
 
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Paidiske

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Having studied epidemiology, and seeing the data from this pandemic, there is no reasonable way to argue against the virtues and effectiveness of vaccination.

And having a degree in immunology, I agree with this, Mark. I am not in any way anti-vacc.

However, I still need to respond to members (or potential members) of my flock who, for whatever reason, are not vaccinated.
 
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The Liturgist

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Well, I'm not Anglican, but here is what our province is doing. Passports come into effect here in Ontario on the 22nd of this month. Churches, essential services (including medical services, industry, most stores and others) are exempt from the Passport requirements. Non-essential things like theatres, sports events as well as public transportation are not. However exempt entities are free to implement passports if they see fit. For example, Bereavement Authority of Ontario is requiring Passports for Funerals and Visitations, or a negative test a maximum of 48 hours before the event after the 22nd; Two weeks later, only a passport; negative tests will not be accepted. Naturally a person who is exempt for a valid reason, may attend any event where they are required.

I support this, and I would certainly support mandatory vaccinations. Having studied epidemiology, and seeing the data from this pandemic, there is no reasonable way to argue against the virtues and effectiveness of vaccination. Vaccination is a way to express my freedom and liberty to help protect my brothers and sisters in this world!

Will American visitors be able to get vaccine passports?
 
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MarkRohfrietsch

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And having a degree in immunology, I agree with this, Mark. I am not in any way anti-vacc.

However, I still need to respond to members (or potential members) of my flock who, for whatever reason, are not vaccinated.
We Elders and Pastor dealt with this issue earlier this evening. While we are exempt from the passport regulations, we are bound by law to follow the Provincial guidelines regarding attendance, social distancing, and tracking. The Province did a risk analysis based on covid tracking, and deemed Churches as a minimal risk.

We have resolved to continue to follow the Province, and continue to preach the Gospel, and administer the Sacraments as we have done through the pandemic; that is in compliance with health regulations, guidelines, and recommendations.

Nothing changes.

With the passport in restaurants, sports events, it is all one needs; no tracking info required for those with a passport. We must still track in Church.
 
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MarkRohfrietsch

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The Liturgist

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And having a degree in immunology, I agree with this, Mark. I am not in any way anti-vacc.

However, I still need to respond to members (or potential members) of my flock who, for whatever reason, are not vaccinated.

What about having a separate said service for them, without a common Chalice, or communication in only one kind, if that is allowed, or just doing Said Mattins or Said Evensong, or Ante-Communion, and you would be fully masked up, with gloves, and also wearing the cheapest, most easily replaceable vestments? Like, I believe you can get from Cokesbury in the US machine-washable shirts with clerical collars, and I am sure a machine washable alb and a machine washable stole exists. Or you could dryclean.
 
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Paidiske

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What about having a separate said service for them, without a common Chalice, or communication in only one kind, if that is allowed, or just doing Said Mattins or Said Evensong, or Ante-Communion, and you would be fully masked up, with gloves, and also wearing the cheapest, most easily replaceable vestments? Like, I believe you can get from Cokesbury in the US machine-washable shirts with clerical collars, and I am sure a machine washable alb and a machine washable stole exists. Or you could dryclean.

I don't think you quite understand the possibility we're talking about here, which is that those who are not vaccinated simply will not be allowed entry to various places (potentially, but not definitely, including churches). So separate services in the church won't be possible.
 
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