Vaccinations

[EnemyPartyII]

More fun for some, obviously. But I would sooner have people ranting away at me about hellfire all day long than see this kind of harmful rubbish given any kind of pseudo-validity in any forum. You can't flame Christians or mock God in this place, but it's all right to spread nonsense which is even now endangering Muslim children in several countries, despite the dispute having been settled to the satisfaction of even the Muslim states involved.

oh, but Muslims don't have souls... get with the program!

 

[Autumnleaf]

Autumnleaf, do you think it is ethical to spread old propaganda driven disinformation about these vaccines, when in the countries where it matters, many children contract polio?

For an overview of these accusations, including distrust fostered by the activities of Pfizer in drug tests, and distrust fostered by the war in Iraq, see here:

http://medicine.plosjournals.org/pe...ocument&doi=10.1371/journal.pmed.0040073&ct=1

So if I start a not for profit website does it make whatever I post on it accurate in your eyes?

 

[Autumnleaf]

right. So, where's the peer reviewed article? If this allegation were true it would be headline news world wide

They circular filed that article next to the original ones about Vioxx and Bextra.

 

[Autumnleaf]

More vaccine info.

http://www.prisonplanet.com/archives/vaccines/index.htm

Don't get me wrong. Vaccines are great when they are used for what they were intentionally intended for, to prevent disease, and when they are thoroughly tested for safety. The link reflects some of my reservations towards them at this time.

 

[Voegelin]

Barring any revolutionary development there isn't going to be a generaly available vaccine for the next 1918 type Influenza outbreak anyways. Tens perhaps hundreds of millions will die. Influenza is not SARS or measles, it has never been sucessfully quarantined. The plan was to blanket an outbreak with Tamiflu but it's been found the drug has to be given almost before symptoms appear to have any effect on the mortality rate.

 

[Steezie]

Autum, the only sources you can seem to come up with are PrisonPlanet (Run by a guy who's CONVINCED that the Bohemian Grove is a wicked and sinister cult and that it even exists) and LifeSite (which we KNOW to be un-reliable).

 

[EnemyPartyII]

Barring any revolutionary development there isn't going to be a generaly available vaccine for the next 1918 type Influenza outbreak anyways. Tens perhaps hundreds of millions will die. Influenza is not SARS or measles, it has never been sucessfully quarantined. The plan was to blanket an outbreak with Tamiflu but it's been found the drug has to be given almost before symptoms appear to have any effect on the mortality rate.

yep, but on the plus side, the survivors of pandemics make out like BANDITS!

 

[Voegelin]

yep, but on the plus side, the survivors of pandemics make out like BANDITS!

That has been the case. The Black Death was good for labor. Wages rose.

But that was then.

Suppose today H5N1 goes H-H and we have another 1918. An HPAI kills by turning the immune system against the body. Highest death rate will be in the 20 to 40 age group-- the group with the strongest immune systems.

So those older, the elderly and sick will have to pay more for the services of younger people who survive.....but....the majority of people alive will be older. Many on SS and medicare. They will simply tax the surviving young workers and get their services for free or below the market price. The only people who will pay younger workers more will be younger workers themselves. But they won't have the money because its all going in taxes to pay for the care of older people.

Ain't democracy grand?

 

[EnemyPartyII]

That has been the case. The Black Death was good for labor. Wages rose.

But that was then.

Suppose today H5N1 goes H-H and we have another 1918. An HPAI kills by turning the immune system against the body. Highest death rate will be in the 20 to 40 age group-- the group with the strongest immune systems.

So those older, the elderly and sick will have to pay more for the services of younger people who survive.....but....the majority of people alive will be older. Many on SS and medicare. They will simply tax the surviving young workers and get their services for free or below the market price. The only people who will pay younger workers more will be younger workers themselves. But they won't have the money because its all going in taxes to pay for the care of older people.

Ain't democracy grand?

Yes, the Black Death was the example to which I refer...

But where do you get the information that H5N1 would result in deaths among predominantly younger people?

I m,ean sure, thats what happened with the 1919 Spanish Flu... but who says H5N1 will be like that?

I'm not saying your wrong, just asking for direction to your source?

 

[Autumnleaf]

Autum, the only sources you can seem to come up with are PrisonPlanet (Run by a guy who's CONVINCED that the Bohemian Grove is a wicked and sinister cult and that it even exists) and LifeSite (which we KNOW to be un-reliable).

Some of the most powerful men in the world go to California and play dress up while dancing around a fire and no news station finds it newsworthy, except you know who. The same goes for a vaccine which was given to pregnant women in the third world and caused spontaneous abortions. Not even newsworthy enough to deny the accusations made by the medical doctors who accused the UN agency which conducted the vaccination program of foul play.

Unreliable sources? Should we only listen to sources owned by the same people (conglomerates) who own the companies which make vaccinations?

 

[Steezie]

Some of the most powerful men in the world go to California and play dress up while dancing around a fire and no news station finds it newsworthy, except you know who.

Which suggests that nothing is really happening

The same goes for a vaccine which was given to pregnant women in the third world and caused spontaneous abortions. Not even newsworthy enough to deny the accusations made by the medical doctors who accused the UN agency which conducted the vaccination program of foul play.

You dont seem to have any sources for it except for your own speculations.

Unreliable sources? Should we only listen to sources owned by the same people (conglomerates) who own the companies which make vaccinations?

How about you show sources PERIOD and then we'll talk

 

[EnemyPartyII]

Some of the most powerful men in the world go to California and play dress up while dancing around a fire and no news station finds it newsworthy, except you know who. The same goes for a vaccine which was given to pregnant women in the third world and caused spontaneous abortions. Not even newsworthy enough to deny the accusations made by the medical doctors who accused the UN agency which conducted the vaccination program of foul play.

Unreliable sources? Should we only listen to sources owned by the same people (conglomerates) who own the companies which make vaccinations?

I thought Bohemian Grove was in Spain?

Either way... where's your evidence? Have you seen it? Get a photo?

 

[Autumnleaf]

I thought Bohemian Grove was in Spain?

Either way... where's your evidence? Have you seen it? Get a photo?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHFoUZEjuNM

You asked for it.

 

[Steezie]

"Why did he get so angry when he heard we snuck in?"

[wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth] DUH!

 

[RavenPoe]

Vaccinations should be used far more sparingly than they have.

The bugs get stronger, the immune system gets weaker.

Eventually, it won't matter what you try to innoculate against.

 

[trunks2k]

Vaccinations should be used far more sparingly than they have.

The bugs get stronger, the immune system gets weaker.

No. I think you're confusing antibiotics with vaccinations. A vaccination actually strengthens the immune system.

We don't regularly administer vaccinations for many diseases. MMR, tetanus, flu, and meningitis are the ones most commonly administered.

I'm not aware of vaccinations having any effect on the strength of those diseases. In order for vaccines to work properly, they rely on many people getting them. In some cases such as polio and small pox, wide scale and consistent distribution of the vaccine have eliminated the diseases. In other ones such as MMR, which most children are vaccinated against, has seen a huge drop in the number of cases. When the MMR vaccine was introduced there were about 28 cases of MMR per 10,000 people, since the introduction of the vaccine, there are almost 0.

 

[Autumnleaf]

No. I think you're confusing antibiotics with vaccinations. A vaccination actually strengthens the immune system.

We don't regularly administer vaccinations for many diseases. MMR, tetanus, flu, and meningitis are the ones most commonly administered.

I'm not aware of vaccinations having any effect on the strength of those diseases. In order for vaccines to work properly, they rely on many people getting them. In some cases such as polio and small pox, wide scale and consistent distribution of the vaccine have eliminated the diseases. In other ones such as MMR, which most children are vaccinated against, has seen a huge drop in the number of cases. When the MMR vaccine was introduced there were about 28 cases of MMR per 10,000 people, since the introduction of the vaccine, there are almost 0.

The problem with all these vaccinations is we really don't know what the long term effect of introducing antigens into people via vaccinations is. We've got all these people getting autoimmune disorders like rheumatoid arthritis and crohn's disease and we wonder why it is happening.

 

[Peach81]

The problem with all these vaccinations is we really don't know what the long term effect of introducing antigens into people via vaccinations is.

Actually, we do. Vaccinations aren't exactly a new thing, seeing as how the practice has been around for over 2000 years. Thanks to vaccines, mankind has nearly wiped out smallpox and polio.

We've got all these people getting autoimmune disorders like rheumatoid arthritis and crohn's disease and we wonder why it is happening.

Most people with autoimmune diseases almost always are genetically predisposed to developing them.

 

[trunks2k]

The problem with all these vaccinations is we really don't know what the long term effect of introducing antigens into people via vaccinations is. We've got all these people getting autoimmune disorders like rheumatoid arthritis and crohn's disease and we wonder why it is happening.

I'd think that after having vaccines for over 50 years and there being no evidence of any negative repercussions, they're probably very safe. Or at least way safer than not having them.

 

[Battie]

No. I think you're confusing antibiotics with vaccinations. A vaccination actually strengthens the immune system.

We don't regularly administer vaccinations for many diseases. MMR, tetanus, flu, and meningitis are the ones most commonly administered.

I'm not aware of vaccinations having any effect on the strength of those diseases. In order for vaccines to work properly, they rely on many people getting them. In some cases such as polio and small pox, wide scale and consistent distribution of the vaccine have eliminated the diseases. In other ones such as MMR, which most children are vaccinated against, has seen a huge drop in the number of cases. When the MMR vaccine was introduced there were about 28 cases of MMR per 10,000 people, since the introduction of the vaccine, there are almost 0.

Thank you for clarifying that. I couldn't find clear information on if they could cause problems.

I will consider getting my flu shot next year. I did not realize that I might be contributing to the problem by holding out.