Uses of Creationist Science

[theFijian]

Why are you asking others to explain your beliefs?

I'd suspect it's because he doesn't really know what he's talking about.

 

[Herman Hedning]

Brass is copper and zinc; bronze is copper and tin.

And you are absolutely sure that distinction was made in 1611 too? Or in 1500 BC for that matter?

 

[AV1611VET]

And you are absolutely sure that distinction was made in 1611 too? Or in 1500 BC for that matter?

.

And Sella gendride Tubalcayn, that was an hamerbetere, and smyyt on alle werkis of bras and of yrun; forsothe the sistir of Tubalcayn was Neoma.

And Zillah also bare Tubal-Kain, who wrought cunningly every craft of braffe and of yron: and the fifter of Tubal-Kain [was] Naamah.

And Sella also bare Thubalcain, which wrought cunnyngly euery craft of brasse and of iron, the sister of Thubalcain was Noema.

And Zillah, she also bare Tubal-Cain, an instructer of euery artificer in brasse and iron: and the sister of Tubla-Cain was Naamah.

 

[Herman Hedning]

Lots of bible quotes with the word brass

Not that this really matters to anything, but you didn't answer my question: Are you sure there was a distinction between the terms brass and bronze before modern times?

So I'll answer it myself: No there wasn't.

Brass

Alloy of copper and zinc, important for its hardness and workability. Brass was first used c. 1200 BC in the Near East, then extensively in China after 220 BC, and soon thereafter by the Romans. In ancient documents, including the Bible, the term brass is often used to denote bronze (copper/tin alloy). <snip the rest>

But this is getting way off topic.

 

[AV1611VET]

Not that this really matters to anything, but you didn't answer my question: Are you sure there was a distinction between the terms brass and bronze before modern times?

Don't know --- I wasn't there --- but I'm sure there was --- maybe not by name, but by observation.

If you lived back then, and someone brought you a copper/zinc alloy, and someone else brought you a copper/tin alloy, do you think you would know the difference? Especially if you were Tubalcain, an artificer in brass?

And Zillah, she also bare Tubalcain, an instructer of every artificer in brass and iron: and the sister of Tubalcain was Naamah.

So I'll answer it myself: No there wasn't.

Watch relying on that Britannica Concise, it might lead you astray. If you go back and read my original comment, you'll see that I was actually agreeing with you. Most bibles do use 'bronze', instead of 'brass'; and I cringe when they do it.

 

[Herman Hedning]

Don't know --- I wasn't there --- but I'm sure there was --- maybe not by name, but by observation.

If you lived back then, and someone brought you a copper/zinc alloy, and someone else brought you a copper/tin alloy, do you think you would know the difference? Especially if you were Tubalcain, an artificer in brass?

Which at the time of Tubalcain was called neither brass nor bronze, but something else entirely. And you do agree that there might not have been a distinction in name, so what are we arguing about?

Watch relying on that Britannica Concise, it might lead you astray.

Well, that information is available in many other sources, I just picked one freely available on the web.

If you go back and read my original comment, you'll see that I was actually agreeing with you. Most bibles do use 'bronze', instead of 'brass'; and I cringe when they do it.

But why? Surely you must agree that the English language has changed in the 400 years since your beloved KJV was authored.

 

[JohnR7]

I'd bless you for that one, John, but you've got enough already.

Yeah, I have lots of blessing. It is reps that I need People are critical because they do not think I have enough of them

 

[JohnR7]

which verse(s) in the Bible am I misinterpreting?

The one that says a day is 1000 years

2 Peter 3:8
But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

 

[MrGoodBytes]

The one that says a day is 1000 years

2 Peter 3:8
But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

A double negative makes for a positive, no?

 

[JohnR7]

But why? Surely you must agree that the English language has changed in the 400 years since your beloved KJV was authored.

Brass is still brass and bronze is still bronze. There are ancient tin and copper mines in Cornwall England very close to where the people lived who translated the Bible into English. Those mines were active for almost 4,000 years. So they would have known the difference to translate the Bible the way they did. I am directly related to one of those translators. He was the first one that the queen had burned at the stake.

 

[JohnR7]

A double negative makes for a positive, no?

Is that what it says in the grammer book? I try to read that thing, but it is boring.

 

[Herman Hedning]

Brass is still brass and bronze is still bronze. There are ancient tin and copper mines in Cornwall England very close to where the people lived who translated the Bible into English. Those mines were active for almost 4,000 years. So they would have known the difference to translate the Bible the way they did. I am directly related to one of those translators. He was the first one that the queen had burned at the stake.

Yes, but the whole point is that the English word bronze is of relatively recent origin, and the term brass was previously used for both alloys. In fact, if you look into it a bit deeper, the distinction between brass and bronze metallurgically speaking isn't all that clear cut.

But this whole discussion is silly - it doesn't really mean anything except that AV1611VET doesn't like the word bronze for some reason.

 

[Chalnoth]

Yeah, I have lots of blessing. It is reps that I need People are critical because they do not think I have enough of them

No, JohnR7, people are critical because of what you say, not because of some number next to your post.

 

[AV1611VET]

Which at the time of Tubalcain was called neither brass nor bronze, but something else entirely.

You've got to be kidding me? Were you there? What then was it called?

And you do agree that there might not have been a distinction in name, so what are we arguing about?

Yes --- there's definitely a distinction between brass and bronze. One uses zinc and one uses tin.

Consider this:

The malleability and acoustic properties of brass have made it the metal of choice for brass musical instruments...

I find this very interesting in view of the fact that the verse just before it says:

[bible]Genesis 4:21[/bible]

And here's something else interesting:

By varying the proportions of copper and zinc, the properties of the brass can be changed, allowing hard and soft brasses. The relatively low melting point (900&#8211;940 °C depending on composition) of brass and its flow characteristics make it a relatively easy material to cast.

Especially in view of:

[bible]Joel 3:10[/bible]

Well, that information is available in many other sources, I just picked one freely available on the web.

Ya --- anything will do --- so long as it contradicts the Bible --- right?

But why? Surely you must agree that the English language has changed in the 400 years since your beloved KJV was authored.

Not so much that zinc and tin are indistinguishable.

 

[MrGoodBytes]

Could we stop talking about zinc?

 

[AV1611VET]

The one that says a day is 1000 years

I hear ya!

p.s. Sent you some reps --- I hope they register.

 

[AV1611VET]

But this whole discussion is silly - it doesn't really mean anything except that AV1611VET doesn't like the word bronze for some reason.

It violates my signature.

 

[MrGoodBytes]

It violates my signature.

God forbid!

 

[AV1611VET]

Has this been addressed yet?

Antiseptic Surgery --- Joseph Lister
Bacteriology --- Louis Pasteur
Calculus --- Isaac Newton
Celestial Mechanics --- Johann Kepler
Chemistry --- Robert Boyle
Comparative Anatomy --- Georges Cuvier
Computer Science --- Charles Babbage
Dimensional Analysis --- Lord Raleigh
Dynamics --- Isaac Newton
Electrodynamics --- James Clerk Maxwell
Electromagnetics --- Michael Faraday
Electronics --- Ambrose Fleming
Energetics --- Lord Kelvin
Entomology of Living Insects --- Henri Fabre
Field Theory --- Michael Faraday
Fluid Mechanics --- George Stokes
Galactic Astronomy --- William Herschel
Gas Dynamics --- Robert Boyle
Genetics --- Gregor Mendel
Glacial Geology --- Louis Agassiz
Gynecology --- James Simpson
Hydraulics --- Leonardo da Vinci
Hydrography --- Matthew Maury
hydrostatics --- Blaise Pascal
Ichthyology --- Louis Agassiz
Isotopic Chemistry --- William Ramsay
Model Analysis --- Lord Rayleigh
Natural History --- John Ray
Non-Euclidean Geometry --- Bernhard Riemann
Oceanography --- Matthew Maury
Optical Mineralogy --- David Brewster
Paleontology --- John Woodward
Pathology --- Rudolph Virchow
Physical Astronomy --- Johann Kepler
Reversible Thermodynamics --- James Joule
Statistical Thermodynamics --- James Clerk Maxwell
Stratigraphy --- Nicholas Steno
Systematic Biology --- Carolus Linnaeus
Thermodynamics --- Lord Kelvin
Thermokinetics --- Humprey Davy
Vertebrate Paleontology --- Georges Cuvier

 

[AV1611VET]

Has this been addressed yet?

Absolute Temperature Scale --- Lord Kelvin
Actuarial Tables --- Charles Babbage
Barometer --- Blaise Pascal
Biogenesis Law --- Louis Pasteur
Calculating Machine --- Charles Babbage
Chloroform --- James Simpson
Classification System --- Carolus Linnaeus
Double Stars --- William Herschel
Electric Generator --- Michael Faraday
Electric Motor --- Joseph Henry
Ephemeris Tables --- Johann Kepler
Fermentation Control --- Louis Pasteur
Galvanometer --- Joseph Henry
Global Star Catalog --- John Herschel
Inert Gases --- William Ramsay
Kaleidoscope --- David Brewster
Law of Gravity --- Isaac Newton
Mine Safety Lamp --- Humphrey Davy
Pasteurization --- Louis Pasteur
Reflecting Telescope --- Isaac Newton
Scientific Method --- Francis Bacon
Self-Induction --- Joseph Henry
Telegraph --- Samuel F. B. Morse
Thermionic Valve --- Ambrose Fleming
Trans-Atlantic Cable --- Lord Kelvin
Vaccination and Immunization --- Louis Pasteur