USA TODAY First pig-to-human heart transplant offers hope for thousands in need of organs

[Lost4words]

Who knows exactly what he said and did not say?
It is what others have written about him.

The Bible is God's word...

 

[Robban]

The Bible is God's word...

Bible is a collection of books as in Bibiotek/libary.
God communcates with man through Prophesy.
If someone comes along and changes any

of the do's and dont's he is regarded as a false prophet.


Prophesy departed from Israel some 2,300 years ago.

 

[Eloy Craft]

Who knows exactly what he said and did not say?
It is what others have written about him.

Perhaps but the meaning is clear. What was once unclean is now clean.

 

[Robban]

Perhaps but the meaning is clear. What was once unclean is now clean.

It is funny, the turn in events.

France and other countries wanted to ban Muslim women from wearing a face covering.
Now it is in certain places mandatory.

Wahing of hands, Pharasees were accused of pettiness, now it is highly recomended when coming home from the market place.

Social distansing, what God has made clean,
so go anywhere, everywhere is clean,
now, keep a distance.

Just a quick glance in the rearview mirror.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I'm not surprised, how would you fit the ears in? But seriously, people who ride motorcycles always used to make up a disproportionate share of organ donors.

Which is why ER workers often call them donorcycles.

 

[Occams Barber]

In order for an animal to be considered CLEAN, it needs to CHEW THE CUD and have a SPLIT HOOF. The pig has the SPLIT HOOF but does not CHEW THE CUD, so according to the Bible, it's not an animal those who believe in the Bible, should eat. See Leviticus 11. There is nothing in the Bible that says that it's OK now to eat UNCLEAN animals. That is a misconception that most Christians have.

Apart from SDA's and (possibly) some Messianic groups, you seem to be pretty much alone on this. Most other Christians appear to have accepted that this and other dietary rules don't apply to Christians under the New Covenant.

OB

 

[renniks]

Doesn't make a hill of beans to me. The physical heart is just a muscle. I don't see what the fuss is about.

 

[Lost4words]

Doesn't make a hill of beans to me. The physical heart is just a muscle. I don't see what the fuss is about.

Its not human. Its also messing with God's creation.

 

[Occams Barber]

Its not human. Its also messing with God's creation.

Prosthetic arms and legs are not human. Artificial hearts are not human. Replacement eye lenses or hearing aids aren't human. Medications distilled from plan or animal tissue aren't human. We've been using pig heart valves to replace defective human valves for 40 years.

What's your point?

OB

 

[renniks]

Its not human. Its also messing with God's creation.

I know it's not human. But the physical isn't what makes us different from animals.
I mean we mess with God's creation all the time if you think about it. Almost everything we do is messing with creation to make the world an easier place to live.

 

[Bradskii]

Its not human. Its also messing with God's creation.

Then hearts, livers, lungs etc from a human doner can't be allowed. It's 'messing with God's creation'. As is any surgery for that matter. God gave us two lungs so removing one is 'messing with God's creation'. An artifical leg is not human. So that's 'messing with God's creation' as well. Good grief, getting a filling or cutting your toenails could be added to the list.

 

[grasping the after wind]

My concern is that the pig whose heart was harvested was specifically genetically modified and bred for this purpose. It seems untoward to me to do that to another living creature, and I expect PETA does not approve. I can only say I don't have enough information at this point to come to a judgement as to whether I approve or not. I don't know much at all about the process used to modify and breed the pig. Nor do I understand why people are so obsessed with living a bit longer and not so much at living a bit better. I can, to a certain degree, understand the argument (perhaps one PETA might put forward) that the human who receives this heart probably abused his body and would be healthier going forward by having taken better care of himself rather than abusing his body and then making another living creature pay the price for that abuse. Of course, we Christians are in the habit of expecting our own sins to be paid for by another.

 

[Lost4words]

Using false arms and legs and eyes is not the same as sticking a pigs heart in a humans chest!

 

[Lost4words]

Then hearts, livers, lungs etc from a human doner can't be allowed. It's 'messing with God's creation'. As is any surgery for that matter. God gave us two lungs so removing one is 'messing with God's creation'. An artifical leg is not human. So that's 'messing with God's creation' as well. Good grief, getting a filling or cutting your toenails could be added to the list.

Messing with God's creation, as in, using a pigs heart in a human's chest!

 

[Robban]

Its not human. Its also messing with God's creation.

Why can we not be like children like in Mary Poppins,

and say, "Wow, how did you do that?"

To be sure it is an accomplishment,

often taken for granted.

A surgeon may be doing a complicated heart operation in a building,

at the same time someone gets stabbed in some back alley in the same area.

Which one will make the ten o clock news?

 

[Occams Barber]

My concern is that the pig whose heart was harvested was specifically genetically modified and bred for this purpose. It seems untoward to me to do that to another living creature, and I expect PETA does not approve. I can only say I don't have enough information at this point to come to a judgement as to whether I approve or not. I don't know much at all about the process used to modify and breed the pig. Nor do I understand why people are so obsessed with living a bit longer and not so much at living a bit better. I can, to a certain degree, understand the argument (perhaps one PETA might put forward) that the human who receives this heart probably abused his body and would be healthier going forward by having taken better care of himself rather than abusing his body and then making another living creature pay the price for that abuse. Of course, we Christians are in the habit of expecting our own sins to be paid for by another.

Almost every plant or animal consumed by humans has been genetically modified and bred for purpose.

Whether it happens indirectly through selective breeding or directly through gene manipulation, the result is genetic modification

OB

 

[grasping the after wind]

Why can we not be like children like in Mary Poppins,

and say, "Wow, how did you do that?"

To be sure it is an accomplishment,

often taken for granted.

A surgeon may be doing a complicated heart operation in a building,

at the same time someone gets stabbed in some back alley in the same area.

Which one will make the ten o clock news?

We can't because we are adults and understand that adults can be corrupt and do things they ought not be doing. For instance, when an atomic bomb devastated Hiroshima, I don't think "Wow how did you do that?' was the appropriate response. I'm not saying that this is one of those things but as I do not know the process by which the pig became a good donor, I also can't say that it isn't.

 

[Occams Barber]

Eating pork is completely different to having its heart pumping away in your chest!

What next? Cows eyeballs in our eye sockets!

Since there's no, currently accepted, religious reason forbidding pig heart transplants and no practical reason not to do it, we're left with the notorious 'ick' factor.

I suspect that many of the negative reactions we're seeing here are little more than attempts to justify an irrational distaste for the idea.

OB

 

[Bradskii]

Messing with God's creation, as in, using a pigs heart in a human's chest!

They used to get insulin from pigs. I guess you'd refuse that as well. But what if it was your daughter and it was the only way of saving her life. Do you refuse to sign the form to authorise it?

 

[Robban]

We can't because we are adults and understand that adults can be corrupt and do things they ought not be doing. For instance, when an atomic bomb devastated Hiroshima, I don't think "Wow how did you do that?' was the appropriate response. I'm not saying that this is one of those things but as I do not know the process by which the pig became a good donor, I also can't say that it isn't.

It is about staying on course, the thread is about heart transplants not atomic bombs.

And how many have forgotten what is like to be a child?