US Still Trying to Prolong the Ukraine War...

Kokavkrystallos

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Full article: U.S. to Send $300 Million in Weapons to Ukraine Under Makeshift Plan

The Biden administration announced on Tuesday that it was sending up to $300 million in weapons to Ukraine, the first new aid package for the country since funding ran out in late December.

The package, pulled together from money that Army accountants cobbled from savings from contracts that came in under bid, includes air defense interceptors, artillery rounds and armor systems, senior defense officials said. Two U.S. officials said the package also includes an older version of the Army’s longer-range missile systems known as ATACMS, which can travel 100 miles.

It is a stopgap measure at best, the officials said, but Ukraine is in dire need of air defense systems in particular, as Russia has continued its bombardment of towns particularly in the east.
 

Ignatius the Kiwi

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It doesn't really change the outcome of the war. Russia will still win and the Ukraine will lose more by having resisted so hard. The Ukraine will never be able to function as a country in the near future.
 
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Ignatius the Kiwi

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It's too bad Putin won't have a "come to Yeshua" talk with Biden over this. Imo here, and now, Putin needs to, moreso than P.M.Netanyahu does. That won't happen though.
It's Biden who won't talk to Putin. The Wests position is not one of compromise or coming to a negotiated settlement. It is one of total victory at any cost.
 
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The Barbarian

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The West's position is one of arrogance, pride and total disrespect for a nuclear power.
All Putin needs to do, is stop his aggression against another country. Then the war is over.
 
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The Barbarian

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All Putin needs to do, is stop his aggression against another country. Then the war is over.

This is childish thinking.
It's just that simple. Give up on his aggression, and the war ends. Keep it up,and the war goes on. That's the reality.
 

Ignatius the Kiwi

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It's just that simple. Give up on his aggression, and the war ends. Keep it up,and the war goes on. That's the reality.
In matters of geo politics, strategic interests it's never that simple. Great powers do not operate on your moral system. They operate on strategic interests and maintaining power/influence. This is like telling the USA to stop going on wars in the Middle East or to stop giving a blank check to Israel while it slaughters Palestinians. It's childish thinking and in the mean time more people will die because of this attitude which cannot accept America receiving an L for it's failed Ukrainian policy.
 
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The Barbarian

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In matters of geo politics, strategic interests it's never that simple.
You've confused "simple" and "easy." Its very simple. It's not easy, because Putin has painted himself into a corner. If he backs off now, after having done grievious damage to Russia and its people, he's likely to be overthrown. If he is allowed to succee it d, he'll try again on some other nation. So it will be hard.
Great powers do not operate on your moral system.
You've confused "realism" with "moralism.:

It's childish thinking and in the mean time more people will die because of this attitude which cannot accept America receiving an L for it's failed Ukrainian policy.
It's the dictator's favorite ploy "give me what I want or people will die." They tried that with Hitler. Guess how that turned out.
 
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Ignatius the Kiwi

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You've confused "simple" and "easy." Its very simple. It's not easy, because Putin has painted himself into a corner. If he backs off now, after having done grievious damage to Russia and its people, he's likely to be overthrown. If he is allowed to succee it d, he'll try again on some other nation. So it will be hard.
The arch neocon returns! I've confused nothing. Putin is hardly in a corner. He isn't isolated from all countries just Western countries. But all politicians suffer when they lose wars they started or provoked. Joe Biden will hopefully suffer similar political consequences when he fails in Ukraine.
You've confused "realism" with "moralism.:
Nope. Unlike neocons like you I don't try to justify the deaths of millions by appeal to morality. Realism just looks at the strategic reality of the situation. You are prepared to start ww3 for the America Empire if necessary. That isn't exactly moral but it is driven by a moral impulse and belief in American hegemony.
It's the dictator's favorite ploy "give me what I want or people will die." They tried that with Hitler. Guess how that turned out.
Not every leader Is Hitler Bill Christol.
 
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The Barbarian

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I've confused nothing. Putin is hardly in a corner.
He's in a terrible fix. He can't win and he can't afford to lose. And now, even republicans are going forward with giving the Ukrainian people the weapons they need to defend themselves.

But all politicians suffer when they lose wars they started or provoked.
That's what I told you. Putin expected to win in a few weeks. Now, he's taking terrible losses in men an equipment, and Russian society continues to crumble.

Realism just looks at the strategic reality of the situation. You are prepared to start ww3 for the America Empire if necessary. That isn't exactly moral but it is driven by a moral impulse and belief in American hegemony.
Chanting Russian slogans won't help you here. Putin's avowed mission is to restore the Soviet Empire. He blusters about nuclear war, but he's not stupid enough to actually do it. And Biden didn't bring Finland and Sweden into NATO. Putin did, with his reckless aggression.


It's the dictator's favorite ploy "give me what I want or people will die." They tried that with Hitler. Guess how that turned out.

Not every leader Is Hitler Bill Christol.
But every dictator is like Hitler. He'll grab until he's stopped. So he's calling on his trolls to do what his military is unable to do. Don't think it's going to work.
 
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Ignatius the Kiwi

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He's in a terrible fix. He can't win and he can't afford to lose. And now, even republicans are going forward with giving the Ukrainian people the weapons they need to defend themselves.
Except he can and will win. You're acting as if the Russians are desperate but they're not. They have time, manpower and the military production to win going forward.


The Republicans betraying their base is nothing new either.
That's what I told you. Putin expected to win in a few weeks. Now, he's taking terrible losses in men an equipment, and Russian society continues to crumble.
Except its not crumbling and Putin is more popular and secure than ever. Do you know what the average Russian thinks or believes? They aren't like you, they don't worship the USA and the rainbow imperium
Chanting Russian slogans won't help you here. Putin's avowed mission is to restore the Soviet Empire. He blusters about nuclear war, but he's not stupid enough to actually do it. And Biden didn't bring Finland and Sweden into NATO. Putin did, with his reckless aggression.

I've never chanted Russian slogans. Nor do I believe Putin wants to restore the Soviet Empire.
It's the dictator's favorite ploy "give me what I want or people will die." They tried that with Hitler. Guess how that turned out.
You mean like the USA does all the time?
But every dictator is like Hitler. He'll grab until he's stopped. So he's calling on his trolls to do what his military is unable to do. Don't think it's going to work.
Except every political power centre is like this. The USA isn't an exception. You for instance prefer Ukranians die so that Russians die. Brutal foreign policy but you make Linsey Graham and other Neocons proud.
 
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The Barbarian

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Except he can and will win.

Putin doesn't need cheerleaders. He needs troops that will fight with the will and determination of the Ukrainians defending their country,

You're acting as if the Russians are desperate but they're not.
They've lost most of the territory they invaded to the Ukrainians. And now the U.S. is sending them more ammunition they need to continue.

Do you know what the average Russian thinks or believes?
Doesn't matter. Elections are fixed and polls are unreliable when they keep records of what one say to the pollster. However, over 900,000 Russians voted with their feet and fled Russia after Putin invaded Ukraine.

I've never chanted Russian slogans.
You're parroting Russian propaganda. We all see it.

Nor do I believe Putin wants to restore the Soviet Empire.
Putin has stated that the greatest disaster to Russian was the collapse of the Soviet Empire. Would you like me to show you?
Pleas of "stop the killing; just give Putin what he wants!"

It's the dictator's favorite ploy "give me what I want or people will die." They tried that with Hitler. Guess how that turned out.

You mean like the USA does all the time?
Ask Hitler. We had apologists for Hitler in America, just as we have them for Putin. But they're a miniority and they won't save Putin. Every dictator is like Hitler. He'll grab until he's stopped. So he's calling on his trolls to do what his military is unable to do. Don't think it's going to work.

Except every political power centre is like this.
A lot of them have been. But the list of "political power centers" who haven't invaded their neighbors is much larger than those who have.

You for instance prefer Ukranians die so that Russians die.
I would prefer that Putin cease his agression so that Ukrainians and Russians don't die. There seems to be no limit to the number of Russians Putin is willing to kill to save himself.

Brutal foreign policy
Russian neocon.
 
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Ignatius the Kiwi

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Putin doesn't need cheerleaders. He needs troops that will fight with the will and determination of the Ukrainians defending their country,
He has troops. It's the Ukraine which is having problems. Unless you believe Zelensky
They've lost most of the territory they invaded to the Ukrainians. And now the U.S. is sending them more ammunition they need to continue.
And it doesn't change that they can't hold said territory.
Doesn't matter. Elections are fixed and polls are unreliable when they keep records of what one say to the pollster. However, over 900,000 Russians voted with their feet and fled Russia after Putin invaded Ukraine.
Versus the 130 million or so Russians that stayed and the majority of which support Putin. Also let's not neglect to mention more people have fled Ukraine than they have Russia.
You're parroting Russian propaganda. We all see it.
Nope. Try again Neocon
Putin has stated that the greatest disaster to Russian was the collapse of the Soviet Empire. Would you like me to show you?
Pleas of "stop the killing; just give Putin what he wants!"
Okay and? Thay doesnt mean he thinks its stategically possible to achieve that or has it in his mind to accomplish said goal.
It's the dictator's favorite ploy "give me what I want or people will die." They tried that with Hitler. Guess how that turned out.
Again the USA does the exact same thing when it doesn't get what it wants. It kills and invades countries which don't agree to its terms.
Ask Hitler. We had apologists for Hitler in America, just as we have them for Putin. But they're a miniority and they won't save Putin. Every dictator is like Hitler. He'll grab until he's stopped. So he's calling on his trolls to do what his military is unable to do. Don't think it's going to work.
Agai repeatin the Neocon lie that every enemy rhe USA faces is Hitler. Im tired of it and so are most people. It gets old every time its used.
I would prefer that Putin cease his agression so that Ukrainians and Russians don't die. There seems to be no limit to the number of Russians Putin is willing to kill to save himself.
Magical thinking and childish thinking. Youre old right? Or are you 10?
Russian neocon.
Except I'm not. I'm just a realist who questions US foreign policy given its vast failures in intervention. It's caused more harm and death than its ever helped anyone. I'm not above questioning the actions of Putin or anyone else. Unlike you I don't worship the USA and justify everything it does.

Seriously, what distinguishes you from the Neocons at this point?
 
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John G.

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Neutrality was all that Putin asked for and that was too much for Biden and the US military-industrial complex.
Now we are looking at another 100 billion taxpayers' money being sent into Zelenski's pockets and the possibility of French and Romanian troops on the ground (without the pretext of being "volunteers").
We need to be praying for the demise of the US military-industrial complex and the hegemonistic attitude of the US and NATO before something goes terribly wrong.
 
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The Barbarian

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Neutrality was all that Putin asked for and that was too much for Biden and the US military-industrial complex.
An independent Ukraine was all he wanted to destroy. Putin is on record as saying that the end ofney the Soviet Empire was a disaster, and he is seeking to rebuild that empire.

Now we are looking at another 100 billion taxpayers' money being sent into Zelenski's pockets
Money and weapons to help the Ukrainians defend themselves from Putin's aggression.

and the possibility of French and Romanian troops on the ground (without the pretext of being "volunteers").
If he can't beat the Ukrainians, what chance would he have against France? All Putin needs to do to stop losing Russian lives and equipment, is stop his aggression against another nation.
 
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The Barbarian

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Putin doesn't need cheerleaders. He needs troops that will fight with the will and determination of the Ukrainians defending their country,

He has troops. It's the Ukraine which is having problems. Unless you believe Zelensky
I notice he's had to open Russian prisons to get enough troops, and almost a million young Russian men have fled to the west to avoid conscription. That's pretty grim for Putin.
And it doesn't change that they can't hold said territory.
Running low on ammunition. But now more is coming. Not a very good sign for Putin.
Versus the 130 million or so Russians that stayed
Most of whom are not fit for combat,

Also let's not neglect to memenntion more people have fled Ukraine than they have Russia.
Women, children and old people. But the young men are fighting. In Russia, nearly a million of them fled to avoid conscription.
Agai repeatin the Neocon lie that every enemy rhe USA faces is Hitler.
Hitler used the same arguments Putin is using. And the difference is, the world isn't standing by enabling Putin. Appeasement never works. If he can conquer Ukraine, other nations will be next. And the Ukrainians don't need soldiers; they need ammunition to defend themselves from the aggressor. Im tired of it and so are most people. It gets old every time its used.
Magical thinking and childish thinking. Youre old right? Or are you 10?
Awww... he's mad and calling names. A good troll never lets his intended victim to make him so angry he can't think straight.
Except I'm not.
We see your denial, but your behavior gives you away.
I'm just a realist who questions US foreign policy given its vast failures in intervention.
We don't need to intervene. As Zelensky said "I don't need a ride, I need ammunition." Which is not an unreasonable request for a nation fighting an aggressor.
It's caused more harm and death than its ever helped anyone. I'm not above questioning the actions of Putin or anyone else.
But you can't. For reasons everyone now understands.
Unlike you I don't worship the USA and justify everything it does.
At this point, it's pretty clear that you worship Putin. We all get that. Seriously, what distinguishes you from any other Russian neocon at this point?
 
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Ignatius the Kiwi

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Putin doesn't need cheerleaders. He needs troops that will fight with the will and determination of the Ukrainians defending their country,
Which he has in abundance in comparison to the Ukraine.
I notice he's had to open Russian prisons to get enough troops, and almost a million young Russian men have fled to the west to avoid conscription. That's pretty grim for Putin.
Yet despite this narrative the Russian Military continues to grow and I have not seen the sort of forced conscription used in Russia that Ukraine has used in order to get recruits. This is why I don't take you or Neocons like you seriously. You're living in a world where Russia is Soviet Union and Nazi Germany combined, and Putin is in the Bunker on meth unable to perceive reality. When it's actually you who is unable to see the reality. Russian society is largely unified around Putin, the same can't be said of the USA which is not having much success in being able to recruit. Perhaps because people don't want to fight brown people in the Middle East so the rainbow flag can be flown in Kabul.
Running low on ammunition. But now more is coming. Not a very good sign for Putin.
And you think it's enough? Aid resolutions take time and the West has continued to admit it does not have the production capabilities in order to actually support Ukraine in terms of Military aid. Like I'm curious what you think the Ukrainian path to victory is. If they lose what will you say? Will you actually question your worldview? Probably not. You're the type of Neo con who would say the USA didn't stay in Afghanistan long enough.
Most of whom are not fit for combat,
Most are not convicts. Most new recruits are volunteering and receiving at least a years of training. Ukrainian soldiers do not have that luxury.
Women, children and old people. But the young men are fighting. In Russia, nearly a million of them fled to avoid conscription.
And? You keep repeating yourself. Men have been fleeing Ukraine as well and Ukraine even has women on the frontlines. Being an Egalitarian I'm sure you think this is a good thing, but I am not an egalitarian and do not believe women fighting on the frontlines of any conflict is a good sign. You present a simplistic narrative of Russians fleeing Russia in droves but they aren't. Russian society is largely stable. The predictions of Western intellectuals that the Russian economy would fall apart and Putin would be ousted have been proven to be wrong.
Hitler used the same arguments Putin is using. And the difference is, the world isn't standing by enabling Putin. Appeasement never works. If he can conquer Ukraine, other nations will be next. And the Ukrainians don't need soldiers; they need ammunition to defend themselves from the aggressor. Im tired of it and so are most people. It gets old every time its used.
Again, not every leader is Hitler and I am tired of Neo cons like yourself arguing that every enemy the USA fights is Hitler. I would also remark that fighting Hitler in WW2 didn't actually work out well for Britain or Poland and instead of making a smart decision to build up and deal with a power they were unequipped to deal with they did the stupid decision and guarantee Poland.

Ukraine does need soldiers and quite desperately but I suppose you're the type to actually believe Zelensky when he says they have only lost 310000 troops. But the scenario you are presenting where Putin gets wins and then proceeds to march to Berlin simply won't happen. There's no strategic reason to do so and drag the world into WW3. You get tired as a Neo con of constantly propagating conflicts by intervening in regional disputes which shouldn't really concern you. But I get it, Americans must dominate the globe and all other regimes besides the USA have been evil and are evil and must be inevitably destroyed. It's how empires operate, but it's never worth it, the cost in lives and the human misery it brings. It just makes things worse.
Awww... he's mad and calling names. A good troll never lets his intended victim to make him so angry he can't think straight.
Again, it's magical thinking to believe Putin would just end this conflict. No ruler would do that, especially since I believe the battlefield conditions favour him and he knows he it. This is why negotiated settlements where both sides don't necessarily get everything they want can be beneficial and actually end a conflict. But your terms, the terms of the USA, are basically your way of the highway. In that effort you will allow Ukraine as a country to die, economically and it's people. Not to mention that if the Ukraine were to win militarily it would cease to be Ukranian inevitably as Western influence forces the country to encourage the immigration of foreign non-Ukrainian populations into the country as is happening in a good deal of Europe.

We see your denial, but your behavior gives you away.
Again, I'm not a Putin shill no matter what you say. He's made mistakes and Russia has made mistakes throughout this conflict. It doesn't change the overall trajectory of how things will end and the fact that Russians are capable of learning from their mistakes in this conflict. One of the interesting things is that this is actual war, with frontlines, defensive positions and some parity between forces. We haven't seen conflict like this since WW2 so all sides are learning things about what is actually needed to achieve victory. The Ukrainians and the Russians. This is what war forces on both sides, to improvise and out maneuver the opponent and make the most out of the military and political situation.

I bought into the western side of this conflict in thinking Russia was going to lose this conflict but I saw the predictions of the West fall apart and the things they promised would happen haven't happpened. I have been proceeded to hear contradictory accounts about the war and what's happening. You can think what you like about me, but at least I'm not a Neocon shill.
We don't need to intervene. As Zelensky said "I don't need a ride, I need ammunition." Which is not an unreasonable request for a nation fighting an aggressor.
Actually it is, especially if he loses. Because the conditions imposed on him and the Ukraine will be harder than they otherwise would have. Strategically it makes no sense for Ukraine to be anything other than a neutral country. Spheres of influence are a real thing and you may crow on about how countries can determine their own foreign policy but they can't. Big countries ultimately determine what little countries are able to do.
But you can't. For reasons everyone now understands.

At this point, it's pretty clear that you worship Putin. We all get that. Seriously, what distinguishes you from any other Russian neocon at this point?
Except I don't worship Putin. I have listened to criticism of him and largely agree with it though not from a liberal western point of view. More of a reactionary dissident right point of view. I find with Putin he is an older style of liberal leader within the Russian context who in his historical reading of things tries to tie the Soviet Union in with Russian history generally. I can perhaps understand the sentiment but cannot agree with him and his reading on certain aspects of history. At the same time he is at least a man who has thought about history and his nation's place in the world as a nation. He doesn't look at Russia as an economic zone to be bought out by foreign buyers (like in the 90s) but a civilization he has some duty to. I can respect that in Putin if nothing else.

Also, when I call you a Neocon it is not a slur but a genuine description of your position. I was listening to a debate between Scott Horton and Bill Kristol the other day and it reminded me of our discussions here. You virtually have every position Bill Kristol does and that should terrify you if you have any ounce of libertarianism left in you. But I suspect you don't, like most Americans when war comes you fall in line and then 5 years later when it was revealed to not be worth it and a waste of life and time, then and only then, you regret it. Like coming out a drug fueled orgy, it felt good at the time but looking back on it, it just wasn't worth the stds and the crippling Meth addiction. Go listen to that debate if you want to see yourself reflected in Bill Kristol.
 
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Yet despite this narrative the Russian Military continues to grow and I have not seen the sort of forced conscription used in Russia that Ukraine has used in order to get recruits.
Emptying the prisions seems like a pretty drastic step to me. It's not hard to see why; Russia has a shortage of young men; it's a looming disaster for the nation:


1571166673368.webp


Russia prison population plummets as convicts are sent to war

 
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