US Rep. Keith Ellison (D-Minn.) the first Muslim U.S. Representative on the ban

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US Rep. Keith Ellison (D-Minn.) the first Muslim U.S. Representative said President Donald Trump’s 90-day ban on immigration from seven predominantly Muslim countries is “a religiously based ban.” He was being interviewed on the TV show Face the Nation. “If they can ban Muslims, why can’t they ban Mormons, why can’t they ban Seventh-day Adventists, why can’t [they] move into ethnic groups?”

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Rep. Keith Ellison: ‘If They Can Ban Muslims, Why Can’t They Ban Mormons…?’
 
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US Rep. Keith Ellison (D-Minn.) the first Muslim U.S. Representative said President Donald Trump’s 90-day ban on immigration from seven predominantly Muslim countries is “a religiously based ban.” He was being interviewed on the TV show Face the Nation. “If they can ban Muslims, why can’t they ban Mormons, why can’t they ban Seventh-day Adventists, why can’t [they] move into ethnic groups?”

Here is the key part of the conversation as it happened:

“It is a religiously based ban, which is something that our — our Constitution says Congress shall make no law establishing a religion or abridge the free exercise thereof. This is a violation of equal protection. It’s a religiously based ban,” Ellison said.

Host John Dickerson compared Trump’s travel ban to what former President Jimmy Carter did after the Iranian hostage crisis and when former President Barack Obama paused the processing of Iraqi refugees.

“Congressman, the president’s defenders would say that, after the Iranian hostage crisis, Jimmy Carter asked Iranian students to report to immigration offices,” said host John Dickerson. “During the Obama administration, the State Department paused Iraqi refugee processing because of terrorism concerns, so that what Donald Trump is doing here, it may be bigger, but it’s in keeping with what previous presidents have done.”

“You know what? We have never had a religious-based ban before, and they can’t deny that this is a Muslim ban,” responded Ellison. “It is a Muslim ban. On the campaign trail, he said he wanted a Muslim ban. He said on national television that there would be other religious groups that would receive priority. This is a Muslim ban,” Ellison insisted.

“Rudy Giuliani, who helped him write it, said that they started out with the intention of a Muslim ban, and then they sort of languaged it up so to try to avoid that label, but it is a religiously based ban…” he added.

“If they can ban Muslims, why can’t they ban Mormons, why can’t they ban Seventh-day Adventists, why can’t [they] move into ethnic groups?” Ellison said.

“Congressman, but, in this case, they have named countries which were named on lists already by the Obama administration,” said Dickerson. “And if it were a Muslim ban, why wouldn’t they ban Pakistan and Indonesia and Turkey and Egypt? None of those countries are affected.”

“Well, according to Reince Priebus, they’re working on it, right? That’s what I heard him just tell you, that they might just add more, but the fact is, is that terrorism, a horrible scourge on the planet, comes from all kinds of places, some where the majority of the population is Muslim, some not, and it even comes from within our country, and the fact is that we cannot make a religious-based distinction,” Ellison said.

“We have to go based on the evidence that we find that people are actually engaged in…” Ellison added.

Could Mr. Trump’s temporary immigration ban on citizens of certain countries in which Muslim extremists are active in terrorism be used one day as a precedence to restrict the movements of other religious groups like Seventh-day Adventists and Mormons? That’s how all undermining of the constitution starts, whether surveillance, torture in secret prisons, extra-judicial killings, etc. – in the name of fighting religious extremism in the form of terrorism. Eventually, the target will morph to those originally unintended and even unrelated to the original purpose. The immigration ban may well be the start of preparations for the following statement to be fulfilled.

“We have no time to lose. The end is near. The passage from place to place to spread the truth will soon be hedged with dangers on the right hand and on the left. Everything will be placed to obstruct the way of the Lord’s messengers, so that they will not be able to do that which it is possible for them to do now.” Testimonies for the Church, Vol. 6, page 22.

Rep. Keith Ellison: ‘If They Can Ban Muslims, Why Can’t They Ban Mormons…?’
Problem is our constitution speaks about not making a law establishing a religion or abridge the free exercise thereof... but that is for US citizens. Also, the ban is not prohibiting anyone from doing anything but coming into this country. 6 of the 7 nations listed have no centralized governments and we can't vet anyone coming from them. The other is Iran and I would ban anyone coming from Iran until they change their ways. Kind of hard to open the door to a radical group of people who claim they want to push the Jews into the sea and refer to us as little satan.
 
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“If they can ban Muslims, why can’t they ban Mormons, why can’t they ban Seventh-day Adventists, why can’t [they] move into ethnic groups?” Ellison said.
Because none of the Mormons or Seventh-day Adventists here are killing or trying to kill Americans based on religion. And, it's a "temporary ban" to shore up precautions.
 
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paul1149

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There are 57 Muslim nations in the world. Seven of them would have immigration paused by Trump's EO. How is that religiously based?

It so happens that the seven nations targeted by obama's law, which Trump's EO is wholly based on, are Muslim. That is not Trump's fault. We don't have Mormons or SDAs going around beheading people or blowing them up or running them over or stabbing them simply because they're not Muslim. There's a problem there, and it is that Islam has from the outset been wedded to political domination by the edge of the sword.

This really shouldn't be hard, but some people have ulterior motives.
 
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pat34lee

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One thing people tend to conveniently forget when it comes to Islam and Muslims. It is not just a religion. It is also a political system, just like Communism or Marxism. It cannot be treated as only a religion.
 
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brinny

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One thing people tend to conveniently forget when it comes to Islam and Muslims. It is not just a religion. It is also a political system, just like Communism or Marxism. It cannot be treated as only a religion.

Exactly.
 
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One thing people tend to conveniently forget when it comes to Islam and Muslims. It is not just a religion. It is also a political system, just like Communism or Marxism. It cannot be treated as only a religion.
No, it's only a religion. It is not a political system. Like any religion, it may in certain places tie strongly with certain political/sociological/economic systems but it is not any of those.

Most Americans have very little understanding of Islam and Muslims and for this reason they have huge, irrational prejudices against them based solely on religion.

The irony is that these same people are being mind-manipulated and tricked into accepting some of the most "extremist" and "radical" muslims as being friends while hating on millions of muslims who are peaceful. It's all in how the American media brainwashes people.
 
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pat34lee

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The irony is that these same people are being mind-manipulated and tricked into accepting some of the most "extremist" and "radical" muslims as being friends while hating on millions of muslims who are peaceful. It's all in how the American media brainwashes people.

If anyone is being manipulated, it is those who don't see the history of Islam. It has never been a peaceful anything. The only thing that stopped them from conquering all of Europe was the sword. The deviant who created Islam was clear about how they treat others. If the others are strong, you negotiate and wait. When they see weakness, they attack; even 'allies' or when under truce conditions.
 
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If anyone is being manipulated, it is those who don't see the history of Islam. It has never been a peaceful anything. The only thing that stopped them from conquering all of Europe was the sword. The deviant who created Islam was clear about how they treat others. If the others are strong, you negotiate and wait. When they see weakness, they attack; even 'allies' or when under truce conditions.
Sounds like the United States when the white man took this land from the indigenous peoples
 
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US Rep. Keith Ellison (D-Minn.) the first Muslim U.S. Representative said President Donald Trump’s 90-day ban on immigration from seven predominantly Muslim countries is “a religiously based ban.” He was being interviewed on the TV show Face the Nation. “If they can ban Muslims, why can’t they ban Mormons, why can’t they ban Seventh-day Adventists, why can’t [they] move into ethnic groups?”
Of course "they" can. 'Banning' certain ethnic groups is clearly constitutional. It's been done many times before, through most of our history, in fact.
 
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Yes, sadly, it does ... but I don't think they are still doing it.
No even though the indigenous peoples on reservations like The Standing Rock Sioux Reservation have their treaties broken and their lands rided by the US government and stolen for oil barons, no they are not directly murdering the people any more. Just shooting them with rubber bullets and spraying them with chemicals

It's the indigenous peoples of the Middle East that the US government slaughters now
 
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ken777

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No even though the indigenous peoples on reservations like The Standing Rock Sioux Reservation have their treaties broken and their lands rided by the US government and stolen for oil barons, no they are not directly murdering the people any more. Just shooting them with rubber bullets and spraying them with chemicals

It's the indigenous peoples of the Middle East that the US government slaughters now
Obama bombed 7 Muslim countries - I think Trump wants to stop that.
 
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pat34lee

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Sounds like the United States when the white man took this land from the indigenous peoples

Different circumstances, although the results were similar. And this country was not taken for Christian causes, but for manifest destiny.

As far as it goes, the native situation is one that shows the hypocrisy of the US telling Israel how to treat the Palestinians. If Israel had the room, they could stick them in reservations in the middle of nowhere also, after killing most of them.
 
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If anyone is being manipulated, it is those who don't see the history of Islam. It has never been a peaceful anything. The only thing that stopped them from conquering all of Europe was the sword. The deviant who created Islam was clear about how they treat others. If the others are strong, you negotiate and wait. When they see weakness, they attack; even 'allies' or when under truce conditions.
A couple of things you do indicate to me that you have the western propaganda version of what Islam is or isn't. You say "them" and "they" as though Muslims are a cohesive unit, but that has been demonstrated to be very false. From there, you go on to characterize them as all following a pattern of wanting and trying to "conquer" other lands (or religions?) and that is not true either.

Most, if not all, of what is done by Muslim-majority countries is driven by the same things that drive any other country (including the US) to do those things. Foremost (perhaps exclusively) that reason is greed.

Those being manipulated and brainwashed by the American and Western media's propaganda against muslims and Islam haven't answered some compelling questions. For example, why is the USA's best friend in the Muslim world also the most radical and extremist muslim nation - Saudi Arabia? If radical, anti-Christian Islam is such a threat to our Western values and lives then why are we best friends with the most intolerant muslim nation in Saudi Arabia?

The real reason? Greed. Money, Oil.

I take personal offense to your characterization of Muslims as "never [being] peaceful anything." My own family owes a lot to our Muslim neighbors who saved us and helped us and nurtured my people, Christians, when the Europeans and Americans neglected to help and save us. And in the process we became their neighbors and friends and got to know them. In many instances we were more friendly with them than with Arab Christians because the Arab Christians were disappointed that the Armenians did not blindly side with the Christian political groups when it came to politics in Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, etc.

I know these things because it is reality and my family lived it and many other Christian families lived this and understand it (including Arab Christians and Assyrian Christians). We know that the way the western media portrays muslims and Islam is false. But the minds of most westerners are manipulated into believing these lies.

What's your experience with Muslims and Islam, out of curiosity? Is it coming from Western media and governments (including Israel)? Or do you have a more objective source or even a source that is intimate with the culture and life that is experienced in the Middle East, in majority Muslim countries? My family is from Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, Iraq, Turkey, and Iran.

Do you know that Iran allows and protects Christians and permits and protects Churches? The oldest Church in the world is in Iran. Did you know that the USA's best friend in the Muslim world, Saudi Arabia, PROHIBITS any churches from existing??? Did you know that Iran does not force all women to wear hijab or head covering everywhere but Saudi Arabia does???

How is it that the USA is best friends with these oppressive extremists but then turns around and calls Syrians, Iraquis, and other non-extremist muslims "a threat"???
 
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Honestly, it’s the Muslims that are responsible for their cohesive unit characterization. It is “Muslims” that convert to “radical Muslims”, not Catholics or Protestants... and Muslims don’t appear to want to openly and aggressively condemn the radical behavior either. You do make a good point about Saudi Arabia though.
 
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tulc

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Honestly, it’s the Muslims that are responsible for their cohesive unit characterization. It is “Muslims” that convert to “radical Muslims”, not Catholics or Protestants... and Muslims don’t appear to want to openly and aggressively condemn the radical behavior either. You do make a good point about Saudi Arabia though.
Islamic Statements Against Terrorism – Charles Kurzman
Statements by Muslim leaders condemning terrorism
Muslims Globally Are Condemning Islamophobia By Tweeting Support For Paris With "I Am A Muslim"
Muslims all over the world condemn terrorism, express solidarity with French - The Express Tribune
This Muslim Teen Had A Sublime Rebuttal To A Classmate Asking Her To Defend Her Religion
just a short list of Muslims condemning terrorism. I can probably post a couple hundred links if you like, of course if you have no real interest in actual facts it wouldn't make any difference, but if that's the case please let everyone know so they can understand this belief of yours isn't fact based and judge your posts accordingly. :wave:
tulc(facts: darn things are true even when people don't want to believe them) :sorry:
 
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just a short list of Muslims condemning terrorism. I can probably post a couple hundred links if you like,
Do you think I can’t post an equal number of articles by groups, religious organizations and individuals asking the same question I posed?
of course if you have no real interest in actual facts it wouldn't make any difference, but if that's the case please let everyone know so they can understand this belief of yours isn't fact based and judge your posts accordingly. :wave:
What I don’t have an interest in… is debating the issue ‘tit for tat’. A whole-hearted, unified, world-wide condemnation by Muslims would be obvious. :)
 
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tulc

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Do you think I can’t post an equal number of articles by groups, religious organizations and individuals asking the same question I posed?
You said:
and Muslims don’t appear to want to openly and aggressively condemn the radical behavior either
so I posted a few links with a bunch of Muslims doing that very thing. That proves what you said was incorrect. :wave:

What I don’t have an interest in… is debating the issue ‘tit for tat’.
Well, that's good, because if you did you'd be shown to be wrong. Again. I'm curious though: since your point about Muslims has been shown to be wrong, do you plan on modifying your position or do you plan on simply keep repeating something that you've been shown isn't actually true? :scratch:

A whole-hearted, unified, world-wide condemnation by Muslims would be obvious. :)
I suspect once we Christians can do the same thing about...well...pretty much anything, then maybe we would have some grounds to demand that of any group composed of fallible human beings. Until then? Why would they be any different from us? :sorry:
tulc(is going to need more coffee soon) :sigh:
 
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