US has struck three Iranian nuclear sites, Trump says

[essentialsaltes]

WASHINGTON/DOHA/ISTANBUL, June 24 (Reuters) - Israel's military said Iran launched waves of missiles on Tuesday, with emergency services reporting three people killed, hours after U.S. President Donald Trump announced a complete ceasefire between Israel and Iran to end a 12-day war.

MY NOBEL CEASE FIRE PRIZE IS ON THE LINE!

 

[Pommer]

View attachment 366718

MY NOBEL CEASE FIRE PRIZE IS ON THE LINE!

View attachment 366719

What is looks like (to my jaded eye), is that Trump/Netanyahu sought a ceasefire.

The Reuters’ article said that “other officials” in the Trump administration got an agreement with Iranian officials to agree to a cease-fire.

A senior White House official said Trump brokered the ceasefire deal with Netanyahu, and other administration officials were in touch with the Iranians. Qatar's Prime Minister Sheikh Mohammed bin Abdulrahman Al Thani secured Tehran's agreement during a call with Iranian officials, an official briefed on the negotiations told Reuters on Tuesday.

But if the diplomats hadn’t gotten such an agreement, yet assured the White House they did…then the Iranians (who’d never agreed) could be cast as “the bad guys” for having broken the cease-fire.

 

[Jerry N.]

What is looks like (to my jaded eye), is that Trump/Netanyahu sought a ceasefire.

The Reuters’ article said that “other officials” in the Trump administration got an agreement with Iranian officials to agree to a cease-fire.




But if the diplomats hadn’t gotten such an agreement, yet assured the White House they did…then the Iranians (who’d never agreed) could be cast as “the bad guys” for having broken the cease-fire.

It makes sense, but Moslems think it is okay to lie to non-believers to promote the cause of Islam. Trump boasted too soon.

 

[JosephZ]

U.S. initial damage report: Iran nuclear program set back by months, not obliterated

An initial U.S. intelligence report assesses that airstrikes ordered by President Donald Trump against Iran’s nuclear facilities set Tehran’s program back by months but did not eliminate it...

The classified report by the Defense Intelligence Agency is based on the Pentagon’s early bomb damage assessment of the strikes on nuclear sites at Fordow, Natanz and Isfahan using earth-penetrating munitions carried by B-2 bombers and Tomahawk missiles launched from submarines.

It assesses that the strikes failed to destroy the core components of Iran’s nuclear program and likely set it back by only a number of months...

The latest intelligence also indicates that Iran moved multiple batches of its highly-enriched uranium out of the nuclear sites before the strikes occurred and that the uranium stockpiles were unaffected...

...it concludes that some of Iran’s centrifuges, used to enrich uranium that could be used in a nuclear weapon, remain intact.

The day before Israel’s attacks started, Iran announced it was building another underground centrifuge and storage facility near Natanz, buried even deeper than the Fordow site... That site is not known to have been struck by either Israel or the United States.

 

[wing2000]

U.S. initial damage report: Iran nuclear program set back by months, not obliterated

An initial U.S. intelligence report assesses that airstrikes ordered by President Donald Trump against Iran’s nuclear facilities set Tehran’s program back by months but did not eliminate it...

The classified report by the Defense Intelligence Agency is based on the Pentagon’s early bomb damage assessment of the strikes on nuclear sites at Fordow, Natanz and Isfahan using earth-penetrating munitions carried by B-2 bombers and Tomahawk missiles launched from submarines.

It assesses that the strikes failed to destroy the core components of Iran’s nuclear program and likely set it back by only a number of months...

The latest intelligence also indicates that Iran moved multiple batches of its highly-enriched uranium out of the nuclear sites before the strikes occurred and that the uranium stockpiles were unaffected...

...it concludes that some of Iran’s centrifuges, used to enrich uranium that could be used in a nuclear weapon, remain intact.

The day before Israel’s attacks started, Iran announced it was building another underground centrifuge and storage facility near Natanz, buried even deeper than the Fordow site... That site is not known to have been struck by either Israel or the United States.

"OBLITERATED!"

 

[loveofourlord]

well thats trumps mistake in not using BOAB, best of all bombs

 

[NxNW]

 

[sir.dante.esq]

President Donald Trump said Saturday that the US military struck three sites in Iran, directly joining Israel ’s effort to destroy the country’s nuclear program in a risky gambit to weaken a longtime foe amid Tehran’s threat of reprisals that could spark a wider regional conflict.

The decision to directly involve the US comes after more than a week of strikes by Israel on Iran that have moved to systematically eradicate the country’s air defences and offensive missile capabilities, while damaging its nuclear enrichment facilities. But US and Israeli officials have said that American stealth bombers and a 30,000-lb. bunker buster bomb they alone can carry offered the best chance of destroying heavily-fortified sites connected to the Iranian nuclear program buried deep underground.


The strikes are a perilous decision for the US as Iran has pledged to retaliate if it joined the Israeli assault, and for Trump personally, having won the White House on the promise of keeping America out of costly foreign conflicts and scoffed at the value of American interventionism.

Looks like peace has broken out in the middle east.

 

[Palmfever]

The end game is that the US will be a Christians nation and that conservative Protestantism (largely Dispensationalist) will be the only recognized form of Christianity. The DOJ already has a task force to see how they are going to pull off that last part. This has being going on for a while. As far back as 1988 when Pat Robertson was running for President one of the planks in his platform was that the Bill of Rights only applied to "Bible-believing" Christians.

I know to many people who identify as a Christian with the same level of commitment as they do in their efforts to become a good democrat or republican. In my opinion, they are both bad choices.

I know professed Christians who are without certainty in their 'faith' and hedging their bet on Christ.

I think our history has strong Christian influence, whether we are a nation of Christians I doubt. I doubt we will ever be.

 

[rjs330]

Looks like at this point the strikes were successful. The places were destroyed and the centerfuges in Fodoe ruined. Time will tell, but by all accounts as they are coming in from various sources a successful operation.

No WWIII, the end of further hostilities between Israel and Iran. What a great job by the American military. All of this is going to have repercussions all over the middle east and even Europe. Trump's moves are starting to have great effects over the world.

I just heard some breaking news that Israel is now looking at ending the Gaza war. Whether it not its true has yet to be determined.

Also NATO is agreeing to increase its military spending for defense.

Thank you President Trump! Things are looking up!

 

[stevevw]

Thats an awful lot to ask us to just accept.

Ezekiel should just have said "Russia" if thats actually whos actually going to attack.

I am pretty sure Peter calls Rome 'Babylon' refrring to the ancient pagan Babylon. These symbols of paganism and anti God and Christ nations or entities is real spiritual warfare against invisible powers and principalities.

If the end times involve Isreal and specifically Jerusalem in conflict then a sign will be a growing conflict with Isreal. Whether this is the conflict or growing towards that final conflict is a matter of the signs of the times. Which Christ says will be like the changing of the season when the figs fall from the trees.

I definitely think we are seeing a changing of the season in world politics and the church even. That many nations and especially Russia and even within the west where many are turning on their own nations in rebellion that this is more than in the past.

Its now ideologically and spiritually interconnected. The political has become the spiritual and its not just about regional peace but world peace and conflict. Like its a pivotal time in our history.

But I don;t think just yet and more is to come in the build up to this. Even a temporary peace. But this peace will be broken and all hell will break loose. Thats because now Isreal is not taking any more and the conflict has been brought to a head that was going on for a long time. Its a breaking point.

 

[civilwarbuff]

Were we OK with that?

That's what I was asking.....were you? Did you speak out against it?......like you are doing now?

 

[civilwarbuff]

MY NOBEL CEASE FIRE PRIZE IS ON THE LINE!

WOW!!!!!! I can feel your hatred even thru this.....so sad.

 

[BCP1928]

That's what I was asking.....were you? Did you speak out against it?......like you are doing now?

More so. I was even outdoors with a sign at one point. Now I'm just sitting with my computer in my lap watching a Cubs game over the top of the screen. See, at the time Obama doing something like that came to his supporters as shock. Trump not so much.

 

[Lukaris]

Being of an isolationist tendency, I have deep concerns about the strikes on the Iranian sites. However, it appears that the negotiations by the previous administration were deeply compromised towards Iranian interests. This also raises questions about Iran and Hamas I would think. Iran International to where I link my article is an Iranian dissident group but has been skeptical of the wisdom of the strikes. They were also critical of the first sources I noticed that undercut the narrative that the strikes were allegedly not devastating.

Inside Tehran’s Soft War

How Iran Gained Influence In US Policy Centers

content.iranintl.com

 

[civilwarbuff]

See, at the time Obama doing something like that came to his supporters as shock.

Why would you be shocked? He supported an extension of the Patriot Act, something many Dems and Repubs (including myself) were bitterly opposed to so why would you be 'shocked' by attacking a suspected terrorist 'outpost'?

From the article in #101:
Schumer insisted that "no president should be allowed to unilaterally march this nation into something as consequential as war with erratic threats and no strategy." House Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries has issued a similar statement.

Schumer is the same politician who was silent or supportive in earlier unilateral attacks by Democratic presidents. In 2011, Obama approved a massive military campaign against Libya.

I mean wrong is wrong, isn't it? Or do you believe "wrong" depends on which political party you belong to?

 

[Ivan Hlavanda]

Without getting into a theological debate, I'm curious. You said "Israel is the Jews, and the Jews are Israel", so what is the modern state of Israel? Or do you conflate Jewish people with the modern state of Israel as the same thing? Which, frankly, I'd call straight up antisemitic.

A controversial opinion which is pretty much limited to Dispensationalist Christians and which in any case is irrelevant to our foreign policy.

Isaiah 66 8 Who has heard such a thing? Who has seen such things? Shall a land be born in one day? Shall a nation be brought forth in one moment? For as soon as Zion was in labor she brought forth her children.

God asked, can a nation be created in 1 day? Then He answered yes by establishing Israel in 1948.

This was prophesied by Ezekiel also. Ezekiel 36:19 I scattered them among the nations, and they were dispersed through the countries. In accordance with their ways and their deeds I judged them. - this happened in 70AD. Israel was scattered across the world, with no land, no army, no government. But let's take a look what God says in verse 24 'I will take you from the nations and gather you from all the countries and bring you into your own land.' And this indeed happened in may 1948.
We can then surely say that the modern Israel is the same Israel in OT.

The people of Israel are cut apart because God chose them to be His Holy, Exodus 19:6 and you shall be to me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.’ These are the words that you shall speak to the people of Israel.”

They are special for the sole reason that God has declared them to be special. They are the physical fulfilment of the extraordinary promese God made thousands of years ago to Abraham and his wife Sara.

It is for this reason Paul says in Romans 11: I ask, then, has God rejected his people? By no means! For I myself am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham, a member of the tribe of Benjamin. 2 God has not rejected his people whom he foreknew.

Does that mean that Israel has a special spiritual deal with God by which the people have received unique path to salvation? Is justification by grace through faith only a new covenant deal or a simply a plan for gentiles? Absolutely not. Verse 7 What then? Israel failed to obtain what it was seeking. The elect obtained it, but the rest were hardened.

Israel as people missed the close relationship they wanted with God by rejecting Jesus Christ when He was in their midst. Who received it instead? The elect, which consists both of gentiles and jews.

The hardening of Israel is not permanent. A time will come when the Jewish people are finally be ready to receive Jesus Christ as their Lord and Saviour. Verses 25-26
25 Lest you be wise in your own sight, I do not want you to be unaware of this mystery, brothers: a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. 26 And in this way all Israel will be saved, as it is written,“The Deliverer will come from Zion, he will banish ungodliness from Jacob”;

28 As regards the gospel, they are enemies for your sake. But as regards election, they are beloved for the sake of their forefathers. 29 For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. 30 For just as you were at one time disobedient to God but now have received mercy because of their disobedience, 31 so they too have now been disobedient in order that by the mercy shown to you they also may now receive mercy.

The church should celebrate Israel. That miraculous. born in a day state is a living testimony of the surety of God's promises and the suffering nature of His love. These people were chosen and miraculously birthed by God. There were great periods over the years during which people loved their Father and served Him with all their hearts. There were many more times which they did not. But whether in good times or in bad, God's love never wavered.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Isaiah 66 8 Who has heard such a thing? Who has seen such things? Shall a land be born in one day? Shall a nation be brought forth in one moment? For as soon as Zion was in labor she brought forth her children.

God asked, can a nation be created in 1 day? Then He answered yes by establishing Israel in 1948.

This was prophesied by Ezekiel also. Ezekiel 36:19 I scattered them among the nations, and they were dispersed through the countries. In accordance with their ways and their deeds I judged them. - this happened in 70AD. Israel was scattered across the world, with no land, no army, no government. But let's take a look what God says in verse 24 'I will take you from the nations and gather you from all the countries and bring you into your own land.' And this indeed happened in may 1948.
We can then surely say that the modern Israel is the same Israel in OT.

The people of Israel are cut apart because God chose them to be His Holy, Exodus 19:6 and you shall be to me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.’ These are the words that you shall speak to the people of Israel.”

They are special for the sole reason that God has declared them to be special. They are the physical fulfilment of the extraordinary promese God made thousands of years ago to Abraham and his wife Sara.

It is for this reason Paul says in Romans 11: I ask, then, has God rejected his people? By no means! For I myself am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham, a member of the tribe of Benjamin. 2 God has not rejected his people whom he foreknew.

Does that mean that Israel has a special spiritual deal with God by which the people have received unique path to salvation? Is justification by grace through faith only a new covenant deal or a simply a plan for gentiles? Absolutely not. Verse 7 What then? Israel failed to obtain what it was seeking. The elect obtained it, but the rest were hardened.

Israel as people missed the close relationship they wanted with God by rejecting Jesus Christ when He was in their midst. Who received it instead? The elect, which consists both of gentiles and jews.

The hardening of Israel is not permanent. A time will come when the Jewish people are finally be ready to receive Jesus Christ as their Lord and Saviour. Verses 25-26
25 Lest you be wise in your own sight, I do not want you to be unaware of this mystery, brothers: a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. 26 And in this way all Israel will be saved, as it is written,“The Deliverer will come from Zion, he will banish ungodliness from Jacob”;

28 As regards the gospel, they are enemies for your sake. But as regards election, they are beloved for the sake of their forefathers. 29 For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. 30 For just as you were at one time disobedient to God but now have received mercy because of their disobedience, 31 so they too have now been disobedient in order that by the mercy shown to you they also may now receive mercy.

The church should celebrate Israel. That miraculous. born in a day state is a living testimony of the surety of God's promises and the suffering nature of His love. These people were chosen and miraculously birthed by God. There were great periods over the years during which people loved their Father and served Him with all their hearts. There were many more times which they did not. But whether in good times or in bad, God's love never wavered.

As I said, I'm not going to debate the theology of this subject here. But I did notice that you didn't actually answer the question I asked of you. I asked if you regard the modern state of Israel and the Jewish people to be the same thing.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Ivan Hlavanda]

As I said, I'm not going to debate the theology of this subject here. But I did notice that you didn't actually answer the question I asked of you. I asked if you regard the modern state of Israel and the Jewish people to be the same thing.

-CryptoLutheran

I partly answered that, but yes.

As you know, one of the 12 tribes of Israel was Judah, called after the 4th son of Jacob.

The use of the name Judah expanded following the separation from the Kingdom of Israel not only to the name of the tribe but also to the Kingdom of Judah which is the southern kingdom created from the portions of Judah, Benjamin, and Simeon.

In 733 BC, the king of Assyria began exiling the residents of the northern kingdom of Israel. The exile was completed in 722 by his successo. Of the divided kingdom, only Judah remained. Over the years, contact was lost with the 10 tribes who apparently disappeared within the societies they were living in, and the only population still identified with the People of Israel was that of the Kingdom of Judah.

The Israelis of today are the true descendants of the ancient Israelites, as I explained in my post before.

The Jews currently residing in Israel are not counterfeit Jews. Many/most of them are true biological descendants of the people from ancient Judah and Israel. There is no biblical, genealogical, historical, or genetic reason to deny that most modern Israelis are truly the descendants of the ancient Israelites.

 

[ViaCrucis]

I partly answered that, but yes.

As you know, one of the 12 tribes of Israel was Judah, called after the 4th son of Jacob.

The use of the name Judah expanded following the separation from the Kingdom of Israel not only to the name of the tribe but also to the Kingdom of Judah which is the southern kingdom created from the portions of Judah, Benjamin, and Simeon.

In 733 BC, the king of Assyria began exiling the residents of the northern kingdom of Israel. The exile was completed in 722 by his successo. Of the divided kingdom, only Judah remained. Over the years, contact was lost with the 10 tribes who apparently disappeared within the societies they were living in, and the only population still identified with the People of Israel was that of the Kingdom of Judah.

The Israelis of today are the true descendants of the ancient Israelites, as I explained in my post before.

The Jews currently residing in Israel are not counterfeit Jews. Many/most of them are true biological descendants of the people from ancient Judah and Israel. There is no biblical, genealogical, historical, or genetic reason to deny that most modern Israelis are truly the descendants of the ancient Israelites.

So when you say "Israel" are you referring to the state that governs a piece of territory in the Levant that was established by the United Nations in 1948, are you referring to citizens of that state (aka Israelis), or are you referring to all Jewish people?

I know Jewish people, they're US citizens, they're my co-workers and neighbors. They don't have anything to do with the modern state of Israel.

I'm trying to understand how does one conflate Jewish human beings, who exist all over the world and who live their own lives, and a particular modern state polity in the Middle East. Does "Israel" refer to the Jewish people, or does "Israel" refer to a specific modern state polity?

And if you are conflating the two as one and the same, how is this not obvious anti-semitism? After Japan bombed Pearl Harbor, thousands of Japanese-Americans were rounded up and put into concentration camps here in the US, simply on the basis of their ethnicity; it was a policy born out of an inability to distinguish persons of Japanese descent and ethnicity from the politics of Imperial Japan. It was a very obvious racist, bigoted, and atrocious act by the US government against her own citizens of Japanese background. Conflating people of a particular ethnicity or religion with the actions and identity of a specific national government seems rife with problems. Just because one may hold to a "positive racism" doesn't make it any less racist and weird. Which is to say, just because you may have "positive" views about the state of Israel, the conflation of Jewish people with the state of Israel is still, frankly, anti-semitic, it robs Jewish people of their own self-determination and Jewish identity by identifying them with a government, not with their own identity. To put it another way, I am American, but I am not America.

-CryptoLutheran