US Flies Bombers near NK in "Show of Force"

[dgiharris]

US bombers fly off North Korea's coast as foreign minister warns armed conflict is 'inevitable'

• US Air Force bombers escorted by fighter jets flew over waters east of North Korea on Saturday.
• The Pentagon said it was a show of force designed to show the range of military options available to President Trump.
• This is the farthest north of the Demilitarized Zone (DMZ) any U.S. aircraft has flown off North Korea's coast in the 21st century.

How many people must die to appease the egos of nation leaders?

We are dealing with an Eastern nation in which the concept of "saving face" and honor has an importance that the Western mindset is just incapable of grasping.

Why on Earth would we do this? What good can come of it?

Just curious, what is our end game here? Do we think that NK will say, "Oh wow, look at those bombers. Gee, we didn't know the US had those bombers; Boy. We really should stop messing around and be good little NK despots..."

No.

What is going to happen is that now NK must respond by escalating 'yet again'.

I mean, seriously, if you follow the actions of the past 8 months, everything they have done has been because Trump goaded them and threatened them. Every time they do something, Trump threatens them and then in response to that threat they do something else, Trump threatens them again and then again they response with an escalation.

So what do we think is going to happen?

Are the lives of our allies in South Korea and Japan worth less than one man's ego, vanity, and pride. Why are we picking an unnecessary fight?

And for the sake of argument, lets say we just invade NK right now. Lets rip that bandaid off. We invade, a few hundred thousand allies get killed, and we plant our flag in NK.

What are the implications of that action? How does that impact the world stage? How will Russia and China and Iran respond?

We are playing checkers while the rest of the world is playing chess. This is so short sighted and ill conceived...

I feel like I'm losing my sanity watching this play out....

 

[Grace2022]

What should be done then? The NK leader is crazy, he won't stop it. He needs dealing with. I think Trump is right. Some people, truly evil ones, only understand force.
I just pray that it can be solved somehow.

 

[Saucy]

Why in the heck is this Trump's fault? They have lied and lied an lied to us for decades, saying they were going to cooperate while continuing to build and develop weapons right under our nose. They have made fools out of us time and time again.

They are working with Iran and other countries to develop these weapons. They are testing nukes and threatening to reduce our country to ashes. This is a new development somehow? Bush had them as part of the Axis of Terror over ten years ago.

 

[Yonny Costopoulis]

What should be done then? The NK leader is crazy, he won't stop it. He needs dealing with. I think Trump is right. Some people, truly evil ones, only understand force.
I just pray that it can be solved somehow.

I think point is Trump keep making same threat and Kim Jong Un keep laughing in Trump face. Trump need to understand that current strategy not working. That is stupid to keep doing something that not working. Is like watching dog chase his tail for long time.

Maybe one day someone make Trump understand foreign relations complicated. Then Trump can give another "Who knew?" speech. Is too bad there is so much basic information Trump not know.

 

[dgiharris]

Why in the heck is this Trump's fault? They have lied and lied an lied to us for decades, saying they were going to cooperate while continuing to build and develop weapons right under our nose.

I'm just curious. What part did preemptively invading an innocent Sovereign country (like Iraq) have on NK developing Nuclear weapons? What part did the fall of the Soviet Union in the late 80s have on NK developing Nuclear weapons? What about the saber rattling we've been doing against them as well since their first nuclear weapons test?

Based on the actions of the US and the West, if I were the dictator of NK then I would also be developing nuclear weapons because I would feel I'd have no choice if I wanted to guarantee my sovereignty.

Stop and think about that. If you are a logical and rational person and you were also the dictator of NK then you would be compelled to develop nuclear weapons based on the US's action. Especially our actions over the last 8 months. The US president has publicly on several occasions threatened NK with nuclear war.

This so-called "problem" with NK is really just us being bullies.

Why don't we have a problem with Russia or China or Saudi Arabia??? Truth is, we are being bullies right now. Is SK calling for all of this? Is Japan calling for all of this? They are our closet allies and they are the ones most impacted by NK. Truth be told, SK and Japan should be the ones completely driving the negotiations with NK and we should be backing them up. INstead, we are all the way on the other side of the world dictating to NK and for what? They have nothing but a paper tin then military. All they do is yap like little dogs. Why are we picking this fight with them?

We just aren't thinking long term here. We are playing the game of politics like a child who just discovered he has a magnifying glass and can fry ants with it. There is no rhyme or reason to what we are doing.

Actually, I take that back. There is a reason. We are purposefully instigating a war. that is exactly what we are doing.

 

[Saucy]

Why did the whole world back us up then? What was the vote to put tougher sanctions on NK? 53-0? Why is even China and Russia on our side with this, when they've been on NK's side in the past? NK has shot rockets over Japan! You better thank goodness I'm not president, because shooting a rocket over our ally would've been enough for me to order the strike.

You've had Japanese and South Korean jets fly with us in a show of force. There is no one currently against us on this, only leftists and never-Trumpers trying to find another reason to attack our president. Sorry, you're not going to convince me that we're the bad guys or the bullies on this one. Trump is the only one who has said the door is open for discussions. We've had that door open ever since my grandfather fought in the first Korean war.

They've done nothing but lie and deceive us the whole time. Letting them continue to develop nukes and rockets is not an option.

 

[wing2000]

Why did the whole world back us up then? What was the vote to put tougher sanctions on NK? 53-0? Why is even China and Russia on our side with this, when they've been on NK's side in the past? NK has shot rockets over Japan! You better thank goodness I'm not president, because shooting a rocket over our ally would've been enough for me to order the strike.

You've had Japanese and South Korean jets fly with us in a show of force. There is no one currently against us on this, only leftists and never-Trumpers trying to find another reason to attack our president. Sorry, you're not going to convince me that we're the bad guys or the bullies on this one. Trump is the only one who has said the door is open for discussions. We've had that door open ever since my grandfather fought in the first Korean war.

They've done nothing but lie and deceive us the whole time. Letting them continue to develop nukes and rockets is not an option.

I'm sure the 25 million residents of the Seoul metro area and nearly 50k US service members in range of NK artillery, tactical nukes and chemical weapons are glad you are not President.

 

[Saucy]

I'm sure the 25 million residents of the Seoul metro area and nearly 50k US service members in range of NK artillery, tactical nukes and chemical weapons are glad you are not President.

That's NK's endgame. They are in danger no matter what we do. What WE are trying to do is get in and stop him from developing these weapons. NK is a threat to everyone, with rockets that can now hit New York in 30 minutes. My move would've helped the people of SK by devastating NK's abilities.

 

[dgiharris]

That's NK's endgame. They are in danger no matter what we do. What WE are trying to do is get in and stop him from developing these weapons. NK is a threat to everyone, with rockets that can now hit New York in 30 minutes. My move would've helped the people of SK by devastating NK's abilities.

70 years ago it cost roughly 1 trillion dollars and hundreds of the world's finest minds led by a dozen of the best of the best in the scientific world to realize an atomic weapon.

With that advances in technology and Moore's law we have reached the stage in our technological development where any tech company on the planet can build a nuclear weapon and ICBM if you front them a billion dollars.

The strategy of denying countries like NK nuclear weapons will be harder and harder as technology progresses. 40 years from now your average college student using parts from home depot will be able to make a nuclear reactor...

My Point?

We need to rethink our long term strategy in regards to nuclear weapons proliferation. We need to account for the tech curve which makes technology easier to assimilate. Basically, the strategy of "deny them nuclear weapons" is just not feasible nowadays with technology being so advanced.

 

[Saucy]

May I ask, are you a pacifist? Do you see that war must never happen and there's always another way?

I just don't know what else can be done at this point.

 

[Nithavela]

The international politics version of "I'm not touching you".

 

[Nithavela]

Why did the whole world back us up then? What was the vote to put tougher sanctions on NK? 53-0? Why is even China and Russia on our side with this, when they've been on NK's side in the past? NK has shot rockets over Japan! You better thank goodness I'm not president, because shooting a rocket over our ally would've been enough for me to order the strike.

Wouldn't have been the first american illegal attack war of the millenium.

 

[Nithavela]

May I ask, are you a pacifist? Do you see that war must never happen and there's always another way?

I just don't know what else can be done at this point.

You know, I really, really want trump to order the nuclear strike, but that's because I really really hate humanity and want as many humans to die as possible.

 

[dgiharris]

May I ask, are you a pacifist? Do you see that war must never happen and there's always another way?
.

I am the furthest thing from a Pacifist. I'm former military.

the problem with this situation is that it is remarkably short sighted and it is just not optimal.

There are multiple problems here (short and long term) that our current policy is not addressing.

#1) Technological advances mean it will be IMPOSSIBLE for one State to "prevent" another State from Developing Nuclear Weapons. Right now, in this moment in time, if you personally had $1B you could make one under the table and no one would ever know. And every year the cost is going to drop. ten years from now it will be $500M, tens years from then it will be $250M and so on and so forth.

#2) The global economy is evolving to be more interrelated. The US taking isolationist actions and promoting isolationist policies is remarkably short sighted and will severely hurt us in the NEAR future. We are quite literally planting the seeds for our own economic demise.

#3) Our current foreign policy is introducing an unacceptable amount of global instability. The worst thing Trump has done which will hurt our country for decades is his attitude of not honoring or adhering to what previous US administrations have said and done. In effect, what this means is that you can NOT negotiate with the US long term, you can only negotiate with the US short term because the next President can just come in an poo poo all over the previous president's agreement. Strategically this hurts the US's ability to foster long term deals.

Right now, our treatment of North Korea is akin to how a child solves a conflict. A child can only see the immediate conflict in front of him and sees nothing wrong with burning bridges or causing other problems as long as he solves the immediate conflict at hand. Then, when the dust settles said child is now in a worse spot.

That is what the US is doing right now, beyond North Korea the attitude and actions we are taking right now seriously hurt/degrade our capacity for interacting with OTHER countries.

We are playing checkers while the world plays chess.

 

[dgiharris]

I just don't know what else can be done at this point.

When you are dealing with a fire the first step is putting it out is to STOP POURING GASOLINE ON IT!!!

Why is North Korea developing nuclear weapons?
#1) To protect their sovereignty
#2) They are a Totalitarian Police State and have no real economy and so invest in their military
#3) They want to become a "player" on the world stage and nuclear weapons will turn them into a power

There are 2 solutions to this problem. One is positive one is negative.
Negative: We wiped them from the face of the Earth
Positive: We take away their need to be a Totalitarian Police State by subverting their agenda, propoganda, and citizenry. Get them fat and happy and addicted to Starbucks, McDonalds, and I-phones and the threat goes away (will take about 20 to 30 years).

Now, if we go Negative, it will cost a trillion dollars and a few hundred thousand lives and take a good 20 years worth of occupation.
If we go Positive, it will cost a few hundred billion and require some real constructive diplomacy and long term thinking and involve our allies (who can help share the costs).

So it isn't about me being a pacifist. It is just that I have a complete toolkit and can think about solving a problem with my entire toolkit and not just my hammer...

 

[HannahT]

There are no good answers. Period.

We ignored them enough for them to get Nukes, and they are wanting to practice with them now. Obama had placed missile defense systems there - which ticked them off and they threaten as well. I mean that is just ONE example. Heck, NK has made threats since the beginning. It's not like Trump is the first one to tell them if they hit anything - they will be utterly destroyed. People don't have that short of memories do they?

SK and the USA had done military practices on the seas, and they always threaten. Rocketman is the only one that has fired off as many as he has, and lol it didn't just start happening within the last year.

NK pushed - like with every new President - to see what they are dealing with. They got a reaction with every President as well.

Once you turn up the volume and threaten Nukes? Rocketman upped the game. Now he will have to make the decision - do I want my power or do I want to be dead? He is treated like a God there. He also is a power monger. It's not like he would allow his people to see him losing - they do control the media, etc.

I'm waiting to see if China actually follows through with the Banking Sanctions. Hopefully NK will put their big boy pants on, and come to the table. They also thought that if they threw a tantrum in the past they would get what they asked for - and pretty much did. If they want to be left alone? They need to start acting like they want to be left alone now - if China does help withe the Banking etc. It will have to wait until RocketMan doesn't have the food he wants or fuel he needs. He should care less if anyone has to do without, but when it comes to him? Maybe they will finally act like adults, and come to the table. Weird things happen when those in power actually have to feel pain, and not just allow those under them feel it instead.