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Update on Fr. John Corapi

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JoabAnias

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I listened to his statement and I hear a man with more faith in himself than the Church. That is part of what upset me.
Seems rather average these days.
In canonical terms the process is not going to move like lightning in 3 months
and he knows that. Anyone who knows canon law, and he does, knows that.
Thats true.
Like I said, when I listen to his recent comments I head mountains of pride and it really turns me off. I really tried to not have an opinion on this until it was over but he kind of really tipped it for me with his actions. I don't see them as the actions of an innocent man seeking justice...now he may be innocent, that is not my point.
Saw the same thing at his conference. The Lord humbles. ;)

Even if he is innocent he is taking this road that says he is bigger than the Church and secular law will get him justice and the Church is not good enough for him. If after a canonical process he felt he still was not cleared that is one thing. But thinking he deserves some 3 month clear when the canonical process for everyone else takes longer is another sign of pride in my view.
Maybe he is just being a realist. Did you hear how often he felt thrown under the bus? This is the culmination so maybe, just maybe, the Church does have some responsiblity in this too.
 
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LinuxUser

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Perhaps this thread should be closed because all that can be done is speculations and gossip, which despite all of our own opinions on the matter, should be something we all strive to not do.

just my humble two cents.

Pax Christi.
Sadly this is the human condition :(
 
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Chrystal-J

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Yep just checked it. His civil suit is breach of contract not libel, slander or false accusation.

I was wondering about that. If (supposedly) he was never told who is accuser is--how is he suppose to sue that person? This explains that question.
 
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BAFRIEND

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This is why I think this thread should get closed, its producing no good fruits, and lacks charity.

if you dont like a topic or the environment of a thread

there are plenty of others for you to contribute too

if you dont like the environment in obob or cf then there are other websites

what i am trying to say is that you dont have to participate if you dont want to, but please

and i state this respectfully- dont try to shut down or derail threads just because in your opinion it is doing nothing for you

it may be helping others and maybe others want to participate

so let's try and be considerate of others tastes and differences and interests
 
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Virgil the Roman

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This is why I think this thread should get closed, its producing no good fruits, and lacks charity.

Such is life. There is but "little light within us" and we make "little progress" towards true amendment of our lives. (Cf. The Imitation of Christ, Chapter: "On Purpose of Amendment").
 
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StThomasMore

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I will be attacked for this, but Corapi is arrogant and thinks he is above the law. He wants his parishioners to be obedient to the magisterium, but when it comes to him no.

I say, don't let the door hit you in the backside. I knew it from jump street and I let my intuition be known on this forum. Corapi was a sketchy guy and I think he was in the ministry for all the wrong reason.

Its too bad canon law wasn't followed correctly that was created by the magesterium in the first place. So whos who as far as not following the magesterium?

Did you even listen to the audio on youtube? He stated the bishop has the right to do what he will do and he submits to the authority of the magesterium. Whether the bishop of Corpus Christi is really following proper canon law procedures in his case is another whole story though.

Satan greatly wants to attack the priesthood, and especially priests who follow obediently to Church doctrine. Father Corapi was one of the rarer priests who spoke out against things where other priests didn't, especially things like contraception and abortion. This made him a great target for attacks from Satan's minions.

Even many Catholic radios stated that they cannot but help but see Satan behind this. None of the allegations against him were substantiated or proven and proper canon law procedures was desperately ignored in his case.

Father Corapi was a man who changed thousands of peoples lives and brought them back to the Church. He brought consolation to many who listened to him. And one did not have to worry about his wavering on controversial issues. Uncharitable posts calling him a con man is not following christian charity nor does show much appreciation for what he contributed to thousands of laymen. Kicking someone when they are down is more common among the honor-less. One man can only do so much, and when improper canon procedures are being followed and unverified hearsay allegations there is not much one can do if it is not in your power.
 
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Colin

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I think it is very interesting how the daily Mass readings seem to mirror what is happening in our every day lives! Just saying........

Yes in this particular instance .

" Don't judge and you will not be judged ". ( Mtt 7:1 ) .

I would add St Paul's words from Phil 4:8 :-

" Fill your minds with everything that is true , everything that is noble , everything that is good and pure , everything that we love and honour , and everything that can be thought virtuous or worthy of praise " .

This thread is not filling my mind with such things but with much that is contrary to them .
 
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thereselittleflower

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Where does it say anywhere these are the words (in the link above) of a retired Bishop?

It says:
RYAN MacDONALD HAS SOME VALUABLE INSIGHTS INTO FATHER JOHN CORAPI’S CASE →
A FEW THOUGHTS ON FATHER CORAPI’S ANNOUNCEMENT YESTERDAY

Posted on June 18, 2011 by abyssum


Ryan MacDonald is a journalist . . I see no Bishop named or referred to . . . . am I missing something?
 
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StThomasMore

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Thats pretty much it. The same reasons the last two should have been closed too. Rather ugly and dark isn't it? Of course its ok to judge those in the public eye. Its hypocrisy.


this is probably one of the more ugly threads out there. A huge example of log/speck. When we have 'gay masses' going on in our Churches and the priest receives nothing but a wrist slap while at the same time a priest getting defrocked for a claim that hasn't even been proven, we then know there is a big problem with the Church in America. Why isn't there the same zeal for priests who tell parishioners contraception is ok or give the eucharist to pro-abortion politicians? How can a priest be defrocked for unsubstantiated hearsay while at the same time another priest can give a pro-abortion politician communion out in the open while everyone turns the other cheek? Heresy is ignored while gossip is listened to.
 
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thereselittleflower

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this is probably one of the more ugly threads out there. A huge example of log/speck. When he have 'gay masses' going on in our Churches and the priest receives nothing but a wrist slap while at the same time a priest getting defrocked for a claim that hasn't even been proven, we then know there is a big problem with the Church in America.

Who is defrocking which priest?
 
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StThomasMore

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LOL Joab come on, Jesus stopped him, and Peter was not yet a saint, and the Great Commission had not even yet been given.

This is no proof of anything.



They were only in court when brought as one of the accused. These were opportunities for them to witness to the Truth and God before rulers, not to point the finger at someone else and say "They wronged me."

Show me where they were the accusers in a secular court of law. You will not find one instance.




As defense or as plaintif?

As defnse Joab. . . this has absolutely nothing at all to do with Fr Corapi's case for he has not been hauled before the secular court to defend himself.

HE is talking about his civil rights. - and since he has not been taken to court, that means he intends to use the secular law to protect his civil rights, which means taking the accuser to court, and becoming the accuser himself. something Paul NEVER did.




.

Alexander the coppersmith did me much harm; the Lord will repay him according to his deeds. - 2 Timothy 4:14


St. Paul had claimed many times of being abused and wronged by the peoples. He even stated he was beaten more than the other apostles, shipwrecked, without food and clothing. He condemned the ungratefulness of some of the laypeople and the accusations that he was 'hard in his letters but soft in person'. He defended himself many times from certain laymen, some of which who turned on him like Alexander the metalworker. And St. Paul specifically claimed Alexander the metalworker did him harm, as well as Hymenaeus and Philetus. So there are plenty of areas where the apostles claim of being wronged by someone.

Lets not be like Alexander the metalworker and start turning on our clergy like many of the greeks and jews did.

As far as resisting an evil person I take it you have not read St. Augustine's just war theory? Or the justification for the Crusades? That verse doesn't mean Christians just stand back and take it, and neither did Aquinas or Augustine think the same thing.
 
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isshinwhat

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Where does it say anywhere these are the words (in the link above) of a retired Bishop?

It says:
RYAN MacDONALD HAS SOME VALUABLE INSIGHTS INTO FATHER JOHN CORAPI’S CASE →
A FEW THOUGHTS ON FATHER CORAPI’S ANNOUNCEMENT YESTERDAY

Posted on June 18, 2011 by abyssum


Ryan MacDonald is a journalist . . I see no Bishop named or referred to . . . . am I missing something?

Those are Bishop Gracida's words. "abyssum" is Bishop Gracida's login for his Blog, and comes from his Episcopal motto, "Abyssus abyssum invocat" which is a line from the 41/42/43 rd Psalm, which is his favorite. The Ryan McDonald post is different and is a repost of a previous article.
 
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isshinwhat

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Alexander the coppersmith did me much harm; the Lord will repay him according to his deeds. - 2 Timothy 4:14


St. Paul had claimed many times of being abused and wronged by the peoples. He even stated he was beaten more than the other apostles, shipwrecked, without food and clothing. He condemned the ungratefulness of some of the laypeople and the accusations that he was 'hard in his letters but soft in person'. He defended himself many times from certain laymen, some of which who turned on him like Alexander the metalworker. And St. Paul specifically claimed Alexander the metalworker did him harm, as well as Hymenaeus and Philetus. So there are plenty of areas where the apostles claim of being wronged by someone.

Lets not be like Alexander the metalworker and start turning on our clergy like many of the greeks and jews did.

As far as resisting an evil person I take it you have not read St. Augustine's just war theory? Or the justification for the Crusades? That verse doesn't mean Christians just stand back and take it, and neither did Aquinas or Augustine think the same thing.

Amen!

Here is a passage from the Second Part of the Second Part of St. Thomas Aquinas' Summa Theologica. The entire article is very interesting, but pay close attention to the balance in his reply to Objection 4.

SUMMA THEOLOGICA: Vengeance (Secunda Secundae Partis, Q. 108)

Article 1. Whether vengeance is lawful?

Objection 1. It seems that vengeance is not lawful. For whoever usurps what is God's sins. But vengeance belongs to God, for it is written (Deuteronomy 32:35, Romans 12:19): "Revenge to Me, and I will repay." Therefore all vengeance is unlawful.

Objection 2. Further, he that takes vengeance on a man does not bear with him. But we ought to bear with the wicked, for a gloss on Canticles 2:2, "As the lily among the thorns," says: "He is not a good man that cannot bear with a wicked one." Therefore we should not take vengeance on the wicked.

Objection 3. Further, vengeance is taken by inflicting punishment, which is the cause of servile fear. But the New Law is not a law of fear, but of love, as Augustine states (Contra Adamant. xvii). Therefore at least in the New Testament all vengeance is unlawful.

Objection 4. Further, a man is said to avenge himself when he takes revenge for wrongs inflicted on himself. But, seemingly, it is unlawful even for a judge to punish those who have wronged him: for Chrysostom [Cf. Opus Imperfectum, Hom. v in Matth., falsely ascribed to St. Chrysostom] says: "Let us learn after Christ's example to bear our own wrongs with magnanimity, yet not to suffer God's wrongs, not even by listening to them." Therefore vengeance seems to be unlawful.

Objection 5. Further, the sin of a multitude is more harmful than the sin of only one: for it is written (Sirach 26:5-7): "Of three things my heart hath been afraid . . . the accusation of a city, and the gathering together of the people, and a false calumny." But vengeance should not be taken on the sin of a multitude, for a gloss on Matthew 13:29-30, "Lest perhaps . . . you root up the wheat . . . suffer both to grow," says that "a multitude should not be excommunicated, nor should the sovereign." Neither therefore is any other vengeance lawful.

On the contrary, We should look to God for nothing save what is good and lawful. But we are to look to God for vengeance on His enemies: for it is written (Luke 18:7): "Will not God revenge His elect who cry to Him day and night?" as if to say: "He will indeed." Therefore vengeance is not essentially evil and unlawful.

I answer that, Vengeance consists in the infliction of a penal evil on one who has sinned. Accordingly, in the matter of vengeance, we must consider the mind of the avenger. For if his intention is directed chiefly to the evil of the person on whom he takes vengeance and rests there, then his vengeance is altogether unlawful: because to take pleasure in another's evil belongs to hatred, which is contrary to the charity whereby we are bound to love all men. Nor is it an excuse that he intends the evil of one who has unjustly inflicted evil on him, as neither is a man excused for hating one that hates him: for a man may not sin against another just because the latter has already sinned against him, since this is to be overcome by evil, which was forbidden by the Apostle, who says (Romans 12:21): "Be not overcome by evil, but overcome evil by good."

If, however, the avenger's intention be directed chiefly to some good, to be obtained by means of the punishment of the person who has sinned (for instance that the sinner may amend, or at least that he may be restrained and others be not disturbed, that justice may be upheld, and God honored), then vengeance may be lawful, provided other due circumstances be observed.

Reply to Objection 1. He who takes vengeance on the wicked in keeping with his rank and position does not usurp what belongs to God but makes use of the power granted him by God. For it is written (Romans 13:4) of the earthly prince that "he is God's minister, an avenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil." If, however, a man takes vengeance outside the order of divine appointment, he usurps what is God's and therefore sins.

Reply to Objection 2. The good bear with the wicked by enduring patiently, and in due manner, the wrongs they themselves receive from them: but they do not bear with them as to endure the wrongs they inflict on God and their neighbor. For Chrysostom [Cf. Opus Imperfectum, Hom. v in Matth., falsely ascribed to St. Chrysostom] says: "It is praiseworthy to be patient under our own wrongs, but to overlook God's wrongs is most wicked."

Reply to Objection 3. The law of the Gospel is the law of love, and therefore those who do good out of love, and who alone properly belong to the Gospel, ought not to be terrorized by means of punishment, but only those who are not moved by love to do good, and who, though they belong to the Church outwardly, do not belong to it in merit.

Reply to Objection 4. Sometimes a wrong done to a person reflects on God and the Church: and then it is the duty of that person to avenge the wrong. For example, Elias made fire descend on those who were come to seize him (2 Kings 1); likewise Eliseus cursed the boys that mocked him (2 Kings 2); and Pope Sylverius excommunicated those who sent him into exile (XXIII, Q. iv, Cap. Guilisarius). But in so far as the wrong inflicted on a man affects his person, he should bear it patiently if this be expedient. For these precepts of patience are to be understood as referring to preparedness of the mind, as Augustine states (De Serm. Dom. in Monte i).

Reply to Objection 5. When the whole multitude sins, vengeance must be taken on them, either in respect of the whole multitude--thus the Egyptians were drowned in the Red Sea while they were pursuing the children of Israel (Exodus 14), and the people of Sodom were entirely destroyed (Genesis 19)--or as regards part of the multitude, as may be seen in the punishment of those who worshipped the calf.

Sometimes, however, if there is hope of many making amends, the severity of vengeance should be brought to bear on a few of the principals, whose punishment fills the rest with fear; thus the Lord (Numbers 25) commanded the princes of the people to be hanged for the sin of the multitude.

On the other hand, if it is not the whole but only a part of the multitude that has sinned, then if the guilty can be separated from the innocent, vengeance should be wrought on them: provided, however, that this can be done without scandal to others; else the multitude should be spared and severity foregone. The same applies to the sovereign, whom the multitude follow. For his sin should be borne with, if it cannot be punished without scandal to the multitude: unless indeed his sin were such, that it would do more harm to the multitude, either spiritually or temporally, than would the scandal that was feared to arise from his punishment.
 
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thereselittleflower

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Alexander the coppersmith did me much harm; the Lord will repay him according to his deeds. - 2 Timothy 4:14


St. Paul had claimed many times of being abused and wronged by the peoples. He even stated he was beaten more than the other apostles, shipwrecked, without food and clothing. He condemned the ungratefulness of some of the laypeople and the accusations that he was 'hard in his letters but soft in person'. He defended himself many times from certain laymen, some of which who turned on him like Alexander the metalworker. And St. Paul specifically claimed Alexander the metalworker did him harm, as well as Hymenaeus and Philetus. So there are plenty of areas where the apostles claim of being wronged by someone.

Lets not be like Alexander the metalworker and start turning on our clergy like many of the greeks and jews did.

As far as resisting an evil person I take it you have not read St. Augustine's just war theory? Or the justification for the Crusades? That verse doesn't mean Christians just stand back and take it, and neither did Aquinas or Augustine think the same thing.


I find this to be an interesting twist of scripture .


When did Paul ever take anyone to court for such things?

Where does Paul go on and on and on about the failures of such people?

I listened to Corapi's 2nd address, and he went on and on and on and on about this woman, about how horrible a drunk she was, etc, etc, etc. . most of his speach semed to be about her . .I found it revolting - and he is taking her to court .. . the way he talked about her, and how wide spread his words may become, may have compromised the case against her presumed innoncence until proven guilty and ensured she cannot get a fair trial, as she will have already been tried by public opinion based on his vitrol against her.

Did Paul do any of that? No. A single comment here or there is nothing like Corapi's rant.


What did Paul do to ensure justice was done?

According to what you posted above:

the Lord will repay him according to his deeds. - 2 Timothy 4:14

What has Corapi done?
 
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thereselittleflower

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Those are Bishop Gracida's words. "abyssum" is Bishop Gracida's login for his Blog, and comes from his Episcopal motto, "Abyssus abyssum invocat" which is a line from the 41/42/43 rd Psalm, which is his favorite. The Ryan McDonald post is different and is a repost of a previous article.
Where do you find that info? That's what I could not find.
 
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thereselittleflower

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Amen!

Here is a passage from the Second Part of the Second Part of St. Thomas Aquinas' Summa Theologica. The entire article is very interesting, but pay close attention to the balance in his reply to Objection 4.

SUMMA THEOLOGICA: Vengeance (Secunda Secundae Partis, Q. 108)

However, there is nothing in Corapi's words that fall in line with the lawful reasons given by Aquinas. By his own words he seeks to have her experience the "downside" of her actions against his person and that she be harmed - he refuses to hold her harmless for what she has done to his person.

Reply to Objection 2. The good bear with the wicked by enduring patiently, and in due manner, the wrongs they themselves receive from them: but they do not bear with them as to endure the wrongs they inflict on God and their neighbor.
He is no longer enduring patienty the wrongs inflicted on himself. He is not dealing with wrongs inflicted on God or neighbor.

Reply to Objection 3. The law of the Gospel is the law of love, and therefore those who do good out of love, and who alone properly belong to the Gospel, ought not to be terrorized by means of punishment, but only those who are not moved by love to do good, and who, though they belong to the Church outwardly, do not belong to it in merit.

Corapi has not been terrorized by means of punishment . . he was put on administrative leave, in essence, for an investigation which he, himself, compromised and brought to a standstill.

Reply to Objection 4. Sometimes a wrong done to a person reflects on God and the Church: and then it is the duty of that person to avenge the wrong. For example, Elias made fire descend on those who were come to seize him (2 Kings 1); likewise Eliseus cursed the boys that mocked him (2 Kings 2); and Pope Sylverius excommunicated those who sent him into exile (XXIII, Q. iv, Cap. Guilisarius). But in so far as the wrong inflicted on a man affects his person, he should bear it patiently if this be expedient. For these precepts of patience are to be understood as referring to preparedness of the mind, as Augustine states (De Serm. Dom. in Monte i).
I have heard no claim that this accusation reflects on God and the Church. And even if it does, only SOMETIMES would this result in the duty of a person to avenge a wrong.

Corapi's focus is the damage it has done him personally.
But in so far as the wrong inflicted on a man affects his person, he should bear it patiently

What did Corapi say was his motivation for seeking to avenge himself?

I refuse to give up all of my civil and human rights in order to hold harmless anyonewho chooses to say defamatory and actionable things against me with no downside to them.

It is about him, what was done to him personally, and he wants there to be a downside for this woman.
 
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