Unlimited Atonement is the teaching of Scripture

[Edward65]

29 For whom he foreknew, he also foreordained to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren:
30 and whom he foreordained, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

These verses only apply to the elect. Those “whom He foreknew” refers to God’s foreknowledge of those He elected to save, and what follows is about how God deals with them. But they say nothing about atonement. They don't teach that Christ only atoned for the elect.

The following Scripture passages teach universal atonement and that salvation is offered to everyone:

"Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come. All this is from God, who through Christ reconciled us to himself and gave us the ministry of reconciliation; that is, in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation. Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, God making his appeal through us. We implore you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God. For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God." (2 Corinthians 5:17-21, ESV)

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God". (John 3:16-18, ESV)

It’s only because Calvinists have interpreted the word “world” (above) without any legitimate justification to mean the "elect" that they're blind to the truth that Christ atoned for everyone and offers salvation to everyone. Try in the above passages when you read the word “world” to imagine that this word actually refers to everyone and not just the elect, and then you'll see that salvation is offered to everyone and that it depends upon belief in Christ's atonement as to whether one is saved or not.

There is no insufficiency in the atonement to save but salvation depends upon faith, that is accepting that Christ has atoned for one’s sins and not regarding Christ’s atonement for every individual as a fairy-story which one can dismiss as a load of rubbish – which is how unbelievers view it.

If you were God and had sent your Son to atone for the sins of the world because you loved the world, but the majority of the inhabitants told you to go away as a stupid fool, would you still allow the atonement your Son had secured for everyone to be applied for the benefit of those miscreants who told you to go away as a stupid fool? Well God doesn’t.

 

[Don Maurer]

29 For whom he foreknew, he also foreordained to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren:
30 and whom he foreordained, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

These verses only apply to the elect. Those “whom He foreknew” refers to God’s foreknowledge of those He elected to save, and what follows is about how God deals with them. But they say nothing about atonement. They don't teach that Christ only atoned for the elect.

The following Scripture passages teach universal atonement and that salvation is offered to everyone:

"Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come. All this is from God, who through Christ reconciled us to himself and gave us the ministry of reconciliation; that is, in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation. Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, God making his appeal through us. We implore you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God. For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God." (2 Corinthians 5:17-21, ESV)

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God". (John 3:16-18, ESV)

It’s only because Calvinists have interpreted the word “world” (above) without any legitimate justification to mean the "elect" that they're blind to the truth that Christ atoned for everyone and offers salvation to everyone. Try in the above passages when you read the word “world” to imagine that this word actually refers to everyone and not just the elect, and then you'll see that salvation is offered to everyone and that it depends upon belief in Christ's atonement as to whether one is saved or not.

There is no insufficiency in the atonement to save but salvation depends upon faith, that is accepting that Christ has atoned for one’s sins and not regarding Christ’s atonement for every individual as a fairy-story which one can dismiss as a load of rubbish – which is how unbelievers view it.

If you were God and had sent your Son to atone for the sins of the world because you loved the world, but the majority of the inhabitants told you to go away as a stupid fool, would you still allow the atonement your Son had secured for everyone to be applied for the benefit of those miscreants who told you to go away as a stupid fool? Well God doesn’t.

Just look at the verses you quote. Your presuppositions on the meaning of the term world are not from the context but are imported into the context.


"Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come. All this is from God, who through Christ reconciled us to himself and gave the ministry of reconciliation; that is, in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation. Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, God making his appeal through us. We implore you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God. For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God." (2 Corinthians 5:17-21, ESV)
If one simply follows the pronouns in the passage, first, the world is "in Christ," which is always speaks of the saved. The world here is the saved ones. It can also be seen in the fact that God does not count "their trespasses against them. In other words, God sees no sin in the "world" in these verses. The world here is "reconciled" to God. This reconsiliation is not hypothetical, but actual. The world here is a friend of God. Only through importing a preconceived understanding of the term "world" can one make these verses to be anything other than a reformed reading. What your doing is not exegesis at all. Where in the context can you point to anything that demonstrates that the term "world" means all men at all times everywhere?

Any serious exegetical study of any context of scriptures would recognize the the term world has many many meanings in the scriptures. Any serious student of the scriptures would establish the meaning of a term which has such varied use by going to the context. You certainly did not do this. I am not going to go over the many uses of the term "world." If you want to read reformed exegesis on that I would suggest Owen's book "Death of Death" the 4th book and 1st chapter.

Take for instance 1 John 2...
1Jn 2:15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
1Jn 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh and the lust of the eyes and the vain glory of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

How can this be the same world that John 3:16 talks about God loving the "world?"

Also you quoted John 3...
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God". (John 3:16-18, ESV)
Notice in verse 17 God does not condemn the world, but saves the world. The verse does not say that God is merely trying to save the world, but that he sent his Son to save the world.

I would be willing to guess that all universal atonement views are based upon non-contextual readings of verses with the term "all" or "world" in them. Some might point to a few "whosoevers" but they are actually the same as "all."

 

[Edward65]

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God." (John 3:16-18, ESV)

• If Christ had only atoned for the sins of the elect then it follows that He isn’t the Saviour of the non-elect and the reason why the non-elect are damned is because they haven’t had their sins atoned for.
  
  
• So in that case the non-elect would have no reason to believe in Christ since Christ wasn’t sent to them as their Saviour.
  
  
• But the text says that the non-elect are condemned for not believing in Him.
  
  
• How can the non-elect be condemned for not believing in Christ when Christ wasn’t sent to them as their Saviour and didn’t atone for their sins?
  
  
• If limited atonement were true then the passage wouldn’t make sense. God couldn’t condemn people for believing the truth that Christ wasn’t their Saviour.
  
  
• People are damned for not believing the truth. And therefore the truth is that Christ is also the Saviour of the non-elect and He atoned for their sins as well.
  
  
• Therefore “world” in the above passage means everyone.

 

[Don Maurer]

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God." (John 3:16-18, ESV)

• If Christ had only atoned for the sins of the elect then it follows that He isn’t the Saviour of the non-elect and the reason why the non-elect are damned is because they haven’t had their sins atoned for.
• So in that case the non-elect would have no reason to believe in Christ since Christ wasn’t sent to them as their Saviour.
• But the text says that the non-elect are condemned for not believing in Him.
• How can the non-elect be condemned for not believing in Christ when Christ wasn’t sent to them as their Saviour and didn’t atone for their sins?
• If limited atonement were true then the passage wouldn’t make sense. God couldn’t condemn people for believing the truth that Christ wasn’t their Saviour.
• People are damned for not believing the truth. And therefore the truth is that Christ is also the Saviour of the non-elect and He atoned for their sins as well.
• Therefore “world” in the above passage means everyone.

God so loved the world...
God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world...
the world might be saved...
God loves the world, does not condemn the world, and saves the world. If the world is all men everywhere, then all men everywhere go to heaven.

 

[Edward65]

God so loved the world...
God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world...
the world might be saved...
God loves the world, does not condemn the world, and saves the world. If the world is all men everywhere, then all men everywhere go to heaven.

Men only go to heaven if they believe that Christ is their Saviour. It's not enough that Christ has atoned for everyone's sins. This must also be accepted as true if we wish to be saved. What's missing from your analysis is the necessity of faith if people are to be saved “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life." (John 3:16, ESV)

Christ atoned for the sins of the world and earned forgiveness for everyone, but in order to be in receipt of this forgiveness you must believe that Christ has atoned for you. The argument that if a person has had his sins atoned for he will automatically be qualified to enter heaven irrespective of whether he has faith or not isn't what the Scriptures teach. God has made it a condition of being saved that a person believes in Christ. It's not sufficient that their sins are atoned for and that God is reconciled to them. They must also be reconciled to God through faith: "Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, God making his appeal through us. We implore you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God." (2 Cor 5:20) "But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it—the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe." (Romans 3:21-22, ESV)

I asked in my last but one post:

"If you were God and had sent your Son to atone for the sins of the world because you loved the world, but the majority of the inhabitants told you to go away as a stupid fool, would you still allow the atonement your Son had secured for everyone to be applied for the benefit of those miscreants who told you to go away as a stupid fool?"

The answer that God gives is no He doesn't, and that Christ's atonement of our sins will not benefit us if we don't accept it in faith. If we don't regard God as truthful when He tells us in the Gospel that our sins are atoned for then we can't expect that God will just overlook the fact that we regard Him as a liar and allow Christ's atonement to benefit us. His reply to those who don't accept that He is truthful when He says He's reconciled to them through the death of His Son is that since they regard Him as a liar and don't desire to be reconciled to Him they can go on their way as those who refuse to be reconciled to Him and suffer the consequences of not being reconciled.

"Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God." (John 3:18, ESV) "I told you that you would die in your sins, for unless you believe that I am he you will die in your sins.” (John 8:24, ESV)

 

[Marvin Knox]

Men only go to heaven if they believe that Christ is their Saviour. It's not enough that Christ has atoned for everyone's sins. This must also be accepted as true if we wish to be saved. What's missing from your analysis is the necessity of faith if people are to be saved “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life." (John 3:16, ESV)

Christ atoned for the sins of the world and earned forgiveness for everyone, but in order to be in receipt of this forgiveness you must believe that Christ has atoned for you. The argument that if a person has had his sins atoned for he will automatically be qualified to enter heaven irrespective of whether he has faith or not isn't what the Scriptures teach. God has made it a condition of being saved that a person believes in Christ. It's not sufficient that their sins are atoned for and that God is reconciled to them. They must also be reconciled to God through faith:

I am I suppose, for want of a better term, a 4 point Calvinist. I believe that Calvin was a 4 pointer as well as a matter of fact.

I happen to agree with you on many of the points you have made. I believe that limited atonement is the biggest sticking point to meaningful dialog with other believers when it comes to Calvinism. It seems to me that it is based on faulty logic.

An example might be something like the "fact" that if Christ died for your sins and you found yourself in Hell God would be unfair since your sins were paid for.

Often times reference is made to Christ only praying for His sheep, world does not mean entire world and other verbal gymnastics etc. Again, human logic that is forced and unnecessary is used IMO.

Christ died for my sins some 2000 years ago. The same is true for all of us. But clearly there was a time in our lives when we did not believe and were enemies of God and not justified before Him That condition went on for 10 years for some of us and perhaps 90 years for some of us.

We had our sins paid for by Christ and yet were were lost. (Please, I believe in most of the "points" of Calvinism - no lectures concerning my predestination to believe or irresistible grace and such - I get it.)

If limited atonement proponents feel that they have enough insight into the way things will be in eternity that they can say for certain that this situation can and does go on for 90 years but that it would be unthinkable for it to go on for eternity ----- they've been given more insight into eternity than I have.

All of this age will be used to display the wrath and the grace of God in the ages to come. The Word of God is the Lamb and He is the Lion. He will be present on the throne of God and in the depth of the lake of fire. All things in this age will find their ultimate destination in Him. In the atonement we will all be at one with the Word of God.

God is all about the display of His knowledge and attributes through His Son. Always has been and always will be IMO. As I consider the entire Word of God from Genesis to Revelation - it seems to me that God's activity in this particular age is all about displaying the "knowledge of good and evil" thing as it were. As always it is through the activities of the Word of God, (His Son - the exact representation of His nature) that He does this. Both good and evil and wrath and grace will be on display for eternity in His Son.

When He has covered all the bases at least in representative form He will have this history to show without going through this thing again and again. Then He can get on with the "good stuff" as it were for the rest of eternity.

Something like that anyway IMO!

I suppose I could carry on for some time and flesh the possibilities out here. But non-limited atonement proponents don't have to prove exactly how these things will be displayed in eternity. All they have to do is show that there are many ways to look at these things. And that's just with our little bitty minds. Can you imagine the ways God with His mind that is so much greater than ours can come up with to explain these things.

Let's not go beyond what is written. The logic of mortal men can only go so far. Christ died for the sins of the entire world. Why not just preach it that way. Why muddy the glorious gospel that we preach to the world with the ruminations of supposed theologians who add difficult and totally uncalled for "points". Silly and destructive to our message IMO.

 

[Marvin Knox]

Long as I'm on a roll here, I might as well go for broke.

I noticed that Edward65 mentioned a few posts back that he wasn't allowed to post on the"Ask A Calvinist" forum. Obviously I don't know what all went on over there. But - making a big assumption that it is because of his stance on limited atonement - I thought these might be of interest.

A FEW QUOTES BY JOHN CALVIN:

1 John 2:2--"he is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for the whole world"----------------------- "CHRIST SUFFERED FOR THE SINS OF THE WHOLE WORLD. and in the goodness of God is OFFERED UNTO ALL MEN WITHOUT DISTINCTION, HIS BLOOD BEING SHED NOT FOR A PART OF THE WORLD ONLY, BUT FOR THE WHOLE HUMAN RACE; for although in the world nothing is found worthy of the favor of God, yet he HOLDS OUT THE PROPITIATION TO THE WHOLE WORLD, since without exception he SUMMONS ALL TO THE FAITH OF CHRIST, which is nothing else than the door unto hope."

Mark 14:24: "This is my blood of the new testament, WHICH IS SHED FOR MANY"..................... "The word 'many' DOES NOT MEAN A PART OF THE WORLD ONLY, BUT THE WHOLE HUMAN RACE: he contrasts many with one as if to say that he would not be the Redeemer of one man, but would meet death to deliver many of their cursed guilt. No doubt that in speaking to a few Christ wished to make His teaching available to a larger number...So when we come to the holy table not only should the general idea come to our mind that THE WORLD IS REDEEMED BY THE BLOOD OF CHRIST but also each should reckon to himself that his own sins are covered.


Romans 5:18: "Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life."
"Paul makes grace COMMON TO ALL MEN, not because it in fact EXTENDS TO ALL, but because IT IS OFFERED TO ALL. Although CHRIST SUFFERED FOR THE SINS OF THE WORLD. AND IS OFFERED BY THE GOODNESS OF GOD WITHOUT DISTINCTION TO ALL MEN, yet not all receive him"

Calvin's "LAST WILL AND TESTAMENT, April 25, 1564":
"I testify also and declare, that I suppliantly beg of Him, that He may be pleased so to was and purify me in the blood which my Sovereign Redeemer HAS SHED FOR THE SINS OF THE HUMAN RACE, that under His shadow I may be able to stand at the judgment-seat...."

Wouldn't it be interesting if John Calvin posted these over on the "Ask A Calvinist" forum and was told that he wasn't allowed to post there anymore because of his unorthodox Calvinism.

I'm just sayin!

 

[stenerson]

What's a 4 point Calvinist? A Lutheran?

 

[Marvin Knox]

What's a 4 point Calvinist? A Lutheran?

Exactly! To call Calvin anything but a Calvinist would be darn right silly IMO.

Calvin shows that he doesn't agree with limited atonement, the "L" in the word T.U.L.I.P. Many or even most in what is generally called Reformed Theology would generally identify as a Calvinist. They tend to use T.U.L.I.P. as a sort of benchmark for who is and who is not a true Calvinist.

Since Calvin would probably subscribed only to the letters T.U. I.P., he would likely be branded as not a "real" Calvinist. Probably he wouldn't be labeled a Lutheran - just not really a true Calvinist. Maybe not even really Reformed to hear some talk.

I just find it ironic. It would be funny if it weren't for the fact that one who appears to have been an extremely Godly man has had his name so defamed among the vast majority of the Christian world.

We all know that limited atonement played a big part in that. I've found it to be the biggest sticking point to any meaningful dialog with those of other persuasions when I try to teach the doctrines of grace. It is so unnecessary IMO.

I might add here (just to incite a little friendly dialog on the subject) - it appears to me that a person teaching limited atonement would be the one at odds with Calvinism. IMO the 4 pointers are the true "blue bloods" of the Reformed group.

I'm fully aware of all the scriptures used to present limited atonement. Many of them can make a powerful "logical" argument for limited atonement. I used to teach it quite effectively myself a few decades ago.

I doubt that 5-point Calvinism will ever recede to the background. I'd just settle for everyone in the Reformed camp acknowledging that those who reject limited atonement not only have all the considerable scriptures used by the vast majority of evangelical Christianity to back them up - but also Big John himself.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Here are several reasons why I hold that unlimited atonement is true and limited atonement is unscriptural:

1. It's a sin not to believe in Christ and unbelievers are held to account for not believing in Him, therefore it follows that Christ is also their Saviour who died for them as well, otherwise they would have no reason to believe in Him and wouldn't be required to do so. (Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God. John 3:18, ESV)
   
   
2. If limited atonement was true and all those who have had their sins atoned for are saved then being righteous would depend upon whether Christ had atoned for your sins or not, and not on your faith. However Scripture teaches that being righteous depends upon your faith. (and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which comes through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God that depends on faith— Philippians 3:9, ESV)
   
   
3. The Gospel is the message to each and every person that if they believe in Christ they'll be saved, so therefore He must have atoned for everyone's sins otherwise this Gospel couldn't be proclaimed. (Then he brought them out and said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” And they said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.” Acts 16:30-31, ESV)
   
   
4. Paul states that Christ has reconciled the entire cosmos to God so all men are obviously included and therefore unlimited atonement is the teaching of Scripture: (For in him all the fullness of God was pleased to dwell, and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, making peace by the blood of his cross. Colossians 1:19-20, ESV)

By the way I also hold that Scripture teaches that God predestines people to heaven and hell and that we have no free will to believe or disbelieve in Christ.

Excellent points! Until I came to the last statement about predestination. Very unusual, to say the least. If there is no free will, and God chooses who will be saved, there would be no reason for unlimited atonement. UA only works when mankind is free to accept or reject the promise of eternal life.

 

[stenerson]

If there is no free will, and God chooses who will be saved, there would be no reason for unlimited atonement. UA only works when mankind is free to accept or reject the promise of eternal life.

Scripture is clear that we aren't in any way free.. All unbelievers have their minds blinded by the god of this world, " In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them."

" 24And the Lord’s servanthttp://biblehub.com/esv/2_timothy/2.htm#footnotes must not be quarrelsome but kind to everyone, able to teach, patiently enduring evil, 25correcting his opponents with gentleness. God may perhaps grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth, 26and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, after being captured by him to do his will."

We are taught here that we are to be patient with opponents of the gospel. The reason given is that God may perhaps, per chance (in other words if it pleases His sovereign good pleasure) grant repentance. Repentance itself being a gift He gives that leads to a saving knowledge of the truth. Escaping the snare of Satan, the god of this world, who holds all men in captivity is a gift "per chance" or "perhaps" granted by God.

I personally must repent of getting into petty quarreling and argumentation with those that oppose the gospel of God's grace. I must always re-acknowledge that it is only God who can open their eyes and grant them repentance to believe what is plainly proclaimed in scripture.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Scripture is clear that we aren't in any way free..

Not so. Not even close. In fact, throughout Scripture, God pleads with people to listen to Him and avoid the consequences of not listening to Him. Deut 11, 30, Joshua 24:15. Throughout the NT believers are commanded to quit sinning, put on the new self, take off the old self, etc. All of those are choices to make.

All unbelievers have their minds blinded by the god of this world, " In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them."

Yet, there is no evidence of regeneration in order for people to believe, and we have the jailer who asked Paul what he MUST DO to be saved. Clearly, his eyes weren't blinded to what the Holy Spirit had convicted him of.

We are taught here that we are to be patient with opponents of the gospel. The reason given is that God may perhaps, per chance (in other words if it pleases His sovereign good pleasure) grant repentance.

Gee, kinda sounds as though God hasn't really made up His mind in the matter. Really believe that?

Repentance itself being a gift He gives that leads to a saving knowledge of the truth.

The Bible does NOT describe repentance as a gift. Eternal life and justification ARE described as gifts, and based on faith in Christ.

Not all "givings" are gifts. So please don't make broad assumptions.

Escaping the snare of Satan, the god of this world, who holds all men in captivity is a gift "per chance" or "perhaps" granted by God.

Still trying to make up His mind, huh?

I personally must repent of getting into petty quarreling and argumentation with those that oppose the gospel of God's grace. I must always re-acknowledge that it is only God who can open their eyes and grant them repentance to believe what is plainly proclaimed in scripture.

We should all repent of any sin we commit. And then confess it to God, of course.

Your post began with the statement that Scripture is clear that man isn't free in any way. The entire Bible is an appeal to believe in Christ.

If it was all as mechanical as your view is, there would be no need for any appeal. Just cracking the whip would do it. Or humming several bars of "Just as I am".

 

[BBAS 64]

Not so. Not even close. In fact, throughout Scripture, God pleads with people to listen to Him and avoid the consequences of not listening to Him. Deut 11, 30, Joshua 24:15. Throughout the NT believers are commanded to quit sinning, put on the new self, take off the old self, etc. All of those are choices to make.


Yet, there is no evidence of regeneration in order for people to believe, and we have the jailer who asked Paul what he MUST DO to be saved. Clearly, his eyes weren't blinded to what the Holy Spirit had convicted him of.


Gee, kinda sounds as though God hasn't really made up His mind in the matter. Really believe that?


The Bible does NOT describe repentance as a gift. Eternal life and justification ARE described as gifts, and based on faith in Christ.
Not all "givings" are gifts. So please don't make broad assumptions.


Still trying to make up His mind, huh?


We should all repent of any sin we commit. And then confess it to God, of course.

Your post began with the statement that Scripture is clear that man isn't free in any way. The entire Bible is an appeal to believe in Christ.

If it was all as mechanical as your view is, there would be no need for any appeal. Just cracking the whip would do it. Or humming several bars of "Just as I am".

Good Day,

Just a bit of Scripture

with gentleness correcting those who are in opposition, if perhaps God may grant them repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth,

Repentance is Granted....

as was correctly posted Stenerson :

Repentance itself being a gift He gives that leads to a saving knowledge of the truth.

Repentance is a gift so is Faith all of salvation is a gift, and God Grants them as he pleases... To bring himself Glory

In Him,

Bill

 

[FreeGrace2]

Good Day,

Just a bit of Scripture

with gentleness correcting those who are in opposition, if perhaps God may grant them repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth,

Repentance is Granted....

as was correctly posted Stenerson :

Repentance itself being a gift He gives that leads to a saving knowledge of the truth.

Repentance is a gift so is Faith all of salvation is a gift, and God Grants them as he pleases... To bring himself Glory

In Him,

Bill

To grant something does not automatically conclude that what was granted was a gift. We know from Scripture that eternal life and righteousness are gifts. Nothing of the sort is said about repentance being a gift.

The parable of the prodigal refutes repentance being a gift. In that story, when did the prodigal repent? Nothing mentioned about God gifting him anything. But, I'll let Scripture speak for itself:

Luke 15:17
“But when he came to his senses, he said, ‘How many of my father’s hired men have more than enough bread, but I am dying here with hunger!

This is repentance, or a change of mind; when he came to his senses. Nothing about getting smarter. It's about using the intelligence that is already God given.

Luke 15:18
‘I will get up and go to my father, and will say to him, “Father, I have sinned against heaven, and in your sight;

This is confession, which needs to accompany repentance.

 

[BBAS 64]

To grant something does not automatically conclude that what was granted was a gift. We know from Scripture that eternal life and righteousness are gifts. Nothing of the sort is said about repentance being a gift.

The parable of the prodigal refutes repentance being a gift. In that story, when did the prodigal repent? Nothing mentioned about God gifting him anything. But, I'll let Scripture speak for itself:

Luke 15:17
“But when he came to his senses, he said, ‘How many of my father’s hired men have more than enough bread, but I am dying here with hunger!

This is repentance, or a change of mind; when he came to his senses. Nothing about getting smarter. It's about using the intelligence that is already God given.

Luke 15:18
‘I will get up and go to my father, and will say to him, “Father, I have sinned against heaven, and in your sight;

This is confession, which needs to accompany repentance.

Good Day,


The prodigal was a son....

Not someone taken snare by the Devil according to the devils will...

Granted is gifted, to bestow, to present, to give...

I will stick with Scripture, go off on your hobby horse looking for contradictions that really in the objective written word do not exist....

In Him,

Bill

 

[FreeGrace2]

Good Day,
The prodigal was a son….

Yes, that is correct. Which makes no difference, either.

Not someone taken snare by the Devil according to the devils will…

Irrelevant as to why anyone is in a position to repent. Even believers need to repent of sins. And to confess them.

 

[BBAS 64]

Yes, that is correct. Which makes no difference, either.


Irrelevant as to why anyone is in a position to repent. Even believers need to repent of sins. And to confess them.

I agree, but remember you can not repent unless it has been granted to you to so.

We are as it were adopted by the father, to be sons and as such repentance to the knowledge of truth has been granted to us...

Repentance is a Gift.

In Him,

Bill

 

[FreeGrace2]

I agree, but remember you can not repent unless it has been granted to you to so.

We are as it were adopted by the father, to be sons and as such repentance to the knowledge of truth has been granted to us...

Repentance is a Gift.

In Him,

Bill

There are no verses that tell us that repentance is a gift from God. Or that repentance comes from God. Scripture is clear about God's gifts. Salvation is a gift per Eph 2:8, and eternal life is a free gift per Rom 6:23. There are many passages in the OT where God basically pleads with His people to repent and turn from their sin. Repentance is a choice. God granting repentance doesn't mean He gives the ability that is not inherent in all of us to repent. It means He allows those who have "come to their senses" as the prodigal son did, to repent.

Remember, the gifts and calling of God are irrevocable. Rom 11:29. Repentance isn't a one time thing. We need to confess our sins and repent of them regularly.

 

[BBAS 64]

There are no verses that tell us that repentance is a gift from God. Or that repentance comes from God. Scripture is clear about God's gifts. Salvation is a gift per Eph 2:8, and eternal life is a free gift per Rom 6:23. There are many passages in the OT where God basically pleads with His people to repent and turn from their sin. Repentance is a choice. God granting repentance doesn't mean He gives the ability that is not inherent in all of us to repent. It means He allows those who have "come to their senses" as the prodigal son did, to repent.

Remember, the gifts and calling of God are irrevocable. Rom 11:29. Repentance isn't a one time thing. We need to confess our sins and repent of them regularly.

Good day,

I quoted it and it is clear , I will stick with Scripture Thank you.

God in the OT commands that they repent..

O God grant what you command, and command what you will.

Man I thought this heresy was long gone!

In Him,

Bill

 

[FreeGrace2]

Good day,

I quoted it and it is clear , I will stick with Scripture Thank you.

Sure. Then repent of your view of repentance.

God in the OT commands that they repent..

Sure. That's what He wants His creatures to do. He doesn't have to gift them with what He commands that they do. Simply an erroneous view of total depravity.

O God grant what you command, and command what you will.

If God chooses who will believe, regenerates so the chosen will believe, and gifts them with repentance, then life is just a puppet show. Put on, I guess, for the angels intertainment.