Universalism

[timlamb]

God is not the universe but the universe is part of God.(pantheism v panentheism)

Is it just me or does this whole thread smack of putting the letter of the law above the spirit of the law?

No, it smacks of putting the Holy Spirit above Your spirit.

 

[Tissue]

Hey mister HOOEY. It is not a matter of how much of scripture they knew, (the thief on the cross being a Jew I bet he knew more than you think), it is a matter of believing what they knew.

Where does it say that the criminal was a Jew?

And I'll ask you to stop the somewhat campy insults now. 'Mister HOOEY' is not respectful. My name is Chris.

 

[Tissue]

Go back and read it for yourself!

WHAT WAS WRITTEN BY MOSES AND ALL THE PROPHETS WAS
WHAT WAS TO BE BELIEVED.

27"And he said, 'Then I beg you, father, that you send him to my father's house--

28for I have five brothers--in order that he may warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.'
29"But Abraham said, 'They have Moses and the Prophets; let them hear them.'
30"But he said, 'No, father Abraham, but if someone goes to them from the dead, they will repent!' 31"But he said to him, 'If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be persuaded even if someone rises from the dead.'"

The prophets didn't deliver the law, Moses did - the prophets
delivered the rest of God's word and wrote of His works.
AND they predicted the Messiah's first and second coming.
And salvation of God's people.

Ok.

Again, I say that there are many who are saved without having access to a Bible.

 

[LightSeaker]

If Jesus lives without Dogma, why did He quote scripture

after scripture thruout His ministry - and often in refutation
to falsities.

What I'm trying to say is that Jesus Christ Himself is not Dogma. He taught Love, Forgiveness and Compassion for the poor and those in need. I tend to "believe" that if those teachings were truly followed by those who claim to be His deciples that today we would have no hunger, all would have water and medical access, no wars, ect. But hay...that's too New Age for some.

I'd like to know why you don't deny what I quoted outright?

which one is that?

Do you agree with the New Age information I stated about

God and man?
New Agers often claim "God is in us" - becuz He's "all in all".

Your statements sound alot like New Ageism as you deny
scripture.

Than so be it. All I know is that there is no limit to the reach of God and that Jesus Christ is well and active even in those who do not believe in Him. Your right though…Right from the time that God breath His breath of life in us at the time of our Creation, God IS in us. The blessing come big time when we are able to actually see God with in others.

Personally, I don’t know how to limit Jesus Christ. You guys do it very well though. I don’t understand how that's done when Christ is everywhere I turn my eyes.

.

 

[Glorthac]

Why anybody would hold to universalism is beyond me. I'm much closer to holding to universal damnation than universalism. Thank Jesus for His sacrifice.

 

[LightSeaker]

Again, I say that there are many who are saved without having access to a Bible.

Is that what it's all about...being saved? I think it's much more than that. There's also making God a reality in ones life. But it's much easer to claim one-true-wayism when God is no longer in sight because the importance of one's salvation becomes paramount and more important than is God. That whole image of "getting saved" is pretty self-serving to me.

.

 

[LightSeaker]

Why anybody would hold to universalism is beyond me. I'm much closer to holding to universal damnation than universalism. Thank Jesus for His sacrifice.

I hold to universalism because of God's Love. I know that is hard for many to understand.

.

 

[LightSeaker]

Wow Nadiine, you nailed it. Pantheism, God in everything. A spirit force that pervades all creation. Living by the feeling; the feel good Jesus.

It's actually Panentheism where God is IN everything and pervades all of Creation. In Pantheism God IS everything.

.

 

[Hentenza]

It's actually Panentheism where God is IN everything and pervades all of Creation. In Pantheism God IS everything.

.

The main problem with process theology is the claim of a changing God. A changing God can not be an actual God since change requires the potentiality to change. The potentiality to change would require a cause for the change and an uncaused cause can not be contingent on a cause otherwise God would be contingent on that cause and therefore no longer uncaused. God is the uncause cause of the universe and everything in it, therefore, He can not be a contingent being. A partly limited unlimited existence is a contradiction.

 

[LightSeaker]

The main problem with process theology is the claim of a changing God. A changing God can not be an actual God since change requires the potentiality to change. The potentiality to change would require a cause for the change and an uncaused cause can not be contingent on a cause otherwise God would be contingent on that cause and therefore no longer uncaused. God is the uncause cause of the universe and everything in it, therefore, He can not be a contingent being. A partly limited unlimited existence is a contradiction.

All true. At the same time our understandings of God changes as does our beliefs about Him change. Yet through all of those changes, the experiences of God are common.

.

 

[Hentenza]

All true. At the same time our understandings of God changes as does our beliefs about Him change. Yet through all of those changes, the experiences of God are common.

.

So you believe in a contradiction?

ETA: If God is contingent then who or what created God?

 

[LightSeaker]

So you believe in a contradiction?

ETA: If God is contingent then who or what created God?

As I look around, what I see in real life is diversity in God's Creation. And all is Created by God...even the diversity we see. I'm not sure if that answers your question or not.

.

 

[b.hopeful]

I don't think dipolar theism is a contradiction...I believe it reflects the perfection of God and in that, the truth of God.

This is from Philip Clayton in the book Adventures in the Spirit..."if God is to remain consistent with God's own nature, God is now constrained by those decisions, which means that God's present power is further limited"

 

[Hentenza]

As I look around, what I see in real life is diversity in God's Creation. And all is Created by God...even the diversity we see. I'm not sure if that answers your question or not.

.

Not really simply because if you believe that God is contingent the He is a created God. A created God can not be a perfect being since the one that created Him then would be "more" perfect. But then, that is another contradiction since a "perfect" being needs nothing, however, in your view He needed a creator. Process theology is a logical fallacy.

 

[Hentenza]

I don't think dipolar theism is a contradiction...I believe it reflects the perfection of God and in that, the truth of God.

This is from Philip Clayton in the book Adventures in the Spirit..."if God is to remain consistent with God's own nature, God is now constrained by those decisions, which means that God's present power is further limited"

Nothing can limit an omnipotent being otherwise, it would not be omnipotent. Also, nothing can cause an uncaused being otherwise, it can not be uncaused.

So, who or what created God?

 

[timlamb]

John 18:38
Pilate said to Him, "What is truth?"

John 17:17
Sanctify them by the truth; your word is truth.

Romans 1:25
They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.

Romans 2:2
Now we know that God's judgment against those who do such things is based on truth.

The things God created don't contain Him, He is not in them nor are they a part of Him. They merely display His character, and His mark os left behing in them for all to see.

If you write a poem or build a house, are you in those or they in you? No, they merely reflect your mind and creative capassity.

People seem to mistake what we see now for what God created. It is not the same. If you claim God is in the trees or the trees are God, you attatch a diety to the trees and you focus on the creation. And in fact because of sin it is merely an image of what God created.

Jesus IS the Word, and when you read the Word of God you see Jesus. You who claim to see Jesus everywhere you look, what a dangerous claim. Better be careful what you look at. Satan is ruler of this world and sin is in it. Look at the truth, the Word of God, and there you can see the character of God, in Chrsit, in the Word.

 

[b.hopeful]

You are not understanding me if you think I'm in disagreement with this:If you write a poem or build a house, are you in those or they in you? No, they merely reflect your mind and creative capassity.

God the creator is not..in material...within creation. God...in spirit...is in creation. The reflection of the spirit of God is within ALL of creation,imo. That is what makes my God a living God....God did not cease to be reflected once Christ was exalted and the Bible was compiled. God continues...God lives....because the spirit of God dwells within all of creation.


Nothing created God...God is the I Am.

 

[ohmi]

Atonement to God of all His creation is just one doctrine of love , not a church or a movement, it should NOT be confused by mixing it with various combinations of false doctrines from divided religion as in divided religion since the truth of it will never emerge that way.

 

[Nadiine]

John 18:38
Pilate said to Him, "What is truth?"

John 17:17
Sanctify them by the truth; your word is truth.

Romans 1:25
They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.

Romans 2:2
Now we know that God's judgment against those who do such things is based on truth.

The things God created don't contain Him, He is not in them nor are they a part of Him. They merely display His character, and His mark os left behing in them for all to see.

If you write a poem or build a house, are you in those or they in you? No, they merely reflect your mind and creative capassity.

People seem to mistake what we see now for what God created. It is not the same. If you claim God is in the trees or the trees are God, you attatch a diety to the trees and you focus on the creation. And in fact because of sin it is merely an image of what God created.

Jesus IS the Word, and when you read the Word of God you see Jesus. You who claim to see Jesus everywhere you look, what a dangerous claim. Better be careful what you look at. Satan is ruler of this world and sin is in it. Look at the truth, the Word of God, and there you can see the character of God, in Chrsit, in the Word.

True again.
These verses dispel the myths given here about God:

2 Chronicles 2:6
"But who is able to build a house for Him, for the heavens and the highest heavens cannot contain Him?
So who am I, that I should build a house for Him, except to burn incense before Him?

1 Kings 8:27
"But will God indeed dwell on the earth? Behold, heaven and the highest heaven cannot contain You, how much less this house which I have built!

GOD CANNOT BE CONTAINED, He is outside time.
He is past, present and future.

As He says of Himself, He is the Alpha and Omega.
Beginning to End.

 

[Stryder06]

It's poetic. It's got a hymnic structure to parts of it. It closely parallels other myths in other cultures. There is no indication that it is meant to be taken as a literal account. The value of the story in no way depends upon the historicity of the events.



Who knows?

We know that it is to be taken litteral because the fouth commandment states that in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sin and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day wherefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

The seven day account in genesis is quite literal my friend. It just further goes to show how awesome our God is. In reality He could have made everything in one day, but He choose to do all creation in six and than take a seventhy to rest.