Universalism

[Rajni]

Jesus made it quite clear that not all people would be saved. His salvation is there for all men, and it is not his will that any should parish, but that does not mean everyone will choose accept salvation.

If Scripture were clear that not all would be saved, we wouldn't be
having this conversation.

Jesus, John the baptist, the apostles, they all preached repentance. And that the name of Jesus Christ is the only name under heaven by which men may be saved.

Repentance and salvation in Christ are not being questioned.
The success of Christ's mission to save all mankind is what some
are struggling with.



.

 

[preistsplace]

Repentance and salvation in Christ are not being questioned.
The success of Christ's mission to save all mankind is what some
are struggling with.

Exactly.......

 

[preistsplace]

Zep 3:8 Therefore wait ye upon me, saith the LORD, until the day that I rise up to the prey: for my determination is to gather the nations, that I may assemble the kingdoms, to pour upon them mine indignation, even all my fierce anger: for all the earth shall be devoured with the fire of my jealousy.
Zep 3:9 For then will I turn to the people a pure language, that they may all call upon the name of the LORD, to serve him with one consent.
Zep 3:10 From beyond the rivers of Ethiopia my suppliants, even the daughter of my dispersed, shall bring mine offering.
Zep 3:11 In that day shalt thou not be ashamed for all thy doings, wherein thou hast transgressed against me: for then I will take away out of the midst of thee them that rejoice in thy pride, and thou shalt no more be haughty because of my holy mountain.
Zep 3:12 I will also leave in the midst of thee an afflicted and poor people, and they shall trust in the name of the LORD.
Perhaps the Haughty in verse 11 are the same as the poor in 12...having undergone purification

 

[timlamb]

Right, not everyone will be saved and immediately taken into heaven. Some will have to endure the purifying fires of hell. But eventually, all will be reconciled.

Repentence is still a part of the Universalist story.

After a million years in hell, do you think people will have learned their lesson?

Now where in scriture is this supported, in fact it says the opposite.

 

[preistsplace]

.[/quote]

This is kinda my point; you can find experts who support your stance, and I can find experts who support mine. At what point do we simply set down the weaponry and recognize our impasse?

I'm not necessarily arguing so that you'll agree with me. I don't think that's reasonable goal. But I am hoping to show that Universalism is at least a valid interpretation, even if you think it is wrong.



Huh?

Exactly we cannot expect to convert the orthodoxy but our view is valid and based on scripture.

 

[timlamb]

chaela;52158967]If Scripture were clear that not all would be saved, we wouldn't be
having this conversation.

Scripture is very clear, it is your additions to it that make it vague.

Repentance and salvation in Christ are not being questioned.
The success of Christ's mission to save all mankind is what some
are struggling with.

Christ's mission was a complete success, it is the repentance part you have trouble with. When ALL repent, then all will be saved. Scripture says it won't happen, and from my angle on the world I don't see it either.

 

[Tissue]

Now where in scriture is this supported, in fact it says the opposite.

Please read the previous two pages, in which we have listed roughly 80-90 verses on the topic.

 

[preistsplace]

Scripture is very clear, it is your additions to it that make it vague.
Christ's mission was a complete success, it is the repentance part you have trouble with. When ALL repent, then all will be saved. Scripture says it won't happen, and from my angle on the world I don't see it either.

Here is my addition.....1Ti 4:9 This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptation.
1Ti 4:10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.
1Ti 4:11 These things command and teach.
...oh wait its....Scripture

 

[timlamb]

preistsplace;52159209].

Exactly we cannot expect to convert the orthodoxy but our view is valid and based on scripture.
[/QUOTE]You consider yourself open minded, but you cannot tolorate our interpretations. Ours, if wrong are at least geared to save more souls and bring people to repentance and avoid hell.

What we object to is you guys telling people not to worry. Because we see your beliefs as a danger to the salvation of those who do not see the need to repent.

We fear for those who sill follow you rather than fear God, as scripture says.

 

[preistsplace]

Please read the previous two pages, in which we have listed roughly 80-90 verses on the topic.

I believe that he will say... Hyperbole.....

 

[Zaac]

that God is the Savior of all men,specially those that believe.......Specially is dividing the two but it clearly states the Jesus is the Savior of ALL and not only SOME

Yall know this thread is shameless. There is absolutely no way to reconcile the WHOLE of Scripture with this notion of universal salvation.

Not even looking at the previous 6000 years, but yall are saying that God is gonna put folks through all that He does during the seven year Tribulation period just to turn around and say "I'm gonna save you anyway?"

JUST WOW!

This thread needs to be blocked from nonbelievers reading it.

 

[preistsplace]

Exactly we cannot expect to convert the orthodoxy but our view is valid and based on scripture.

You consider yourself open minded, but you cannot tolorate our interpretations. Ours, if wrong are at least geared to save more souls and bring people to repentance and avoid hell.

What we object to is you guys telling people not to worry. Because we see your beliefs as a danger to the salvation of those who do not see the need to repent.

We fear for those who sill follow you rather than fear God, as scripture says.[/quote]
1) Do you save souls?
2) Does your Doctrine save souls?
3) Or does God save souls?
4)It is not that I can't tolerate your dogma/doctrine/belief system it is that on this point our theologies are opposed. You say you are saving souls from eternal Hell And I say that I am preaching the all powerful love of Christ, and calling to repentance.
5)Fear for whom you may, but be aware that my beliefs are based on scripture and I am following the Lord Jesus Christ.....
6)If they don't see the need to repent than any theology will not convert them be it eternal torment or eternal love...

 

[Tissue]

You consider yourself open minded, but you cannot tolorate our interpretations. Ours, if wrong are at least geared to save more souls and bring people to repentance and avoid hell.

What we object to is you guys telling people not to worry. Because we see your beliefs as a danger to the salvation of those who do not see the need to repent.

We fear for those who sill follow you rather than fear God, as scripture says.

Actually, arguably, our position would 'save' more people, all else being equal. At least in certain situations. Fire and brimstone scares many into salvation, but a loving God who reconciles all is much more acceptable to most in our western culture, which is quickly moving toward a post-Christian state.

We don't tell people not to worry. We still emphasize repentance.

Y'know, I'm finding that this discussion is less an open conversation and more a constant, repetitive defense against ridiculous straw men.

 

[timlamb]

=preistsplace;52159447]Here is my addition.....1Ti 4:9 This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptation.
1Ti 4:10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.
1Ti 4:11 These things command and teach.
...oh wait its....Scripture

Ande you grossly misinterpret it

10That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
11And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
12Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. 13For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

Work out our salvation? What, we have to do something? Why, what is there to fear?

 

[preistsplace]

Yall know this thread is shameless. There is absolutely no way to reconcile the WHOLE of Scripture with this notion of universal salvation.

Not even looking at the previous 6000 years, but yall are saying that God is gonna put folks through all that He does during the seven year Tribulation period just to turn around and say "I'm gonna save you anyway?"

JUST WOW!

This thread needs to be blocked from nonbelievers reading it.

And your theology says that after he puts them through the tribulation then he says ok now I am going to send you to hell/lake of fire forever....as to your opening comment....
Mat 19:26 But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.

 

[Tissue]

Yall know this thread is shameless. There is absolutely no way to reconcile the WHOLE of Scripture with this notion of universal salvation.

If that is your attitude, then you have no business in this thread. Do yourself a favor and leave. We are looking for intelligent, open-minded individuals to mull this over with. If you have already made your conclusion without engaging in argument, we aren't interested in you.

Neither, for that matter, will be the vast majority of seekers.

 

[MarkSB]

Right, not everyone will be saved and immediately taken into heaven. Some will have to endure the purifying fires of hell. But eventually, all will be reconciled.

Repentence is still a part of the Universalist story.

After a million years in hell, do you think people will have learned their lesson?

Doesn't it say in revelation that those thrown into the pit will suffer day and night for all eternity? I thought it also said something about the pit being sealed after the beast was thrown in.

 

[Tissue]

Doesn't it say in revelation that those thrown into the pit will suffer day and night for all eternity? I thought it also said something about the pit being sealed after the beast was thrown in.

Revelation is a hectic book filled with various images that are notoriously difficult to interpret.

It is also wildly poetic. How often do we say "I've been working at this forever, and still haven't gotten anywhere"? We don't actually mean forever; we just mean a really, really long time.

Is this the right interpretation of Revelation? I think probably. Others might not. Nevertheless, our interpretation is, at the very least, valid.

 

[timlamb]

Actually, arguably, our position would 'save' more people, all else being equal. At least in certain situations. Fire and brimstone scares many into salvation, but a loving God who reconciles all is much more acceptable to most in our western culture, which is quickly moving toward a post-Christian state.

We don't tell people not to worry. We still emphasize repentance.

Y'know, I'm finding that this discussion is less an open conversation and more a constant, repetitive defense against ridiculous straw men.

Boy, ain't that the truth. the same verses misrepresented over and over to deny the word of God and the need for repentance. Because some people don't think God has the right to punish rebelous sinners who curse Him.

 

[preistsplace]

Ande you grossly misinterpret it

You are free to your opinion I suppose your argument is that all doesn't really mean all

Work out our salvation? What, we have to do something? Why, what is there to fear?

Again I have not once said that God will not Juge men...And I truly believe that it is a terrible thing to fall in the hands of the Living God.