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Universalism

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Nadiine

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amen,
except I believe they all will bow & admit who God is. But
as I had read back in ancient days, after a king won a battle,
they'de force the people they conquered to bow to the king.

But aside from that, what's being missed is that bowing doesn't
mean you are saved. Satan agrees who God is & if God forced
him & the demons to, they WOULD bow & worship against their
will.

Also, where are they bowing from?
Philippians 2:10
so that at the name of Jesus EVERY KNEE WILL BOW,
of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth,

It saying, no matter where anyone is at, they will bow.
It in no way suggests they all love God or have repented
or will repent.
What's happening is, they're reading in their own doctrine
into verses when it doesn't fit elsewhere.
 
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Zaac

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I can't believe how much folks are stretching Scripture to make this lie into the truth. I can't remember a time in my life where I have ever heard anyone say that because every knee shall bow, that it points to all being saved.

Just WOW!

I'm just flabberghasted and in awe that Christians will even try to teach something like that in order to push universal salvation.
 
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BlackJack77

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Dear Zaac,

It's amazing but not unexpected, for it is written:

For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. 2 Timothy 4:3-4


The amplified version expounds the verses this way:
For the time is coming when [people] will not tolerate (endure) sound and wholesome instruction, but, having ears itching [for something pleasing and gratifying], they will gather to themselves one teacher after another to a considerable number, chosen to satisfy their own liking and to foster the errors they hold, And will turn aside from hearing the truth and wander off into myths and man-made fictions.


This thread, (as well as others in this forum), is a clear example of the prophesy of these Scriptures being fulfilled.


Sincerely in Christ,
Jack

 
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Zaac

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So, so true Jack. Just another sign that Jesus Christ is coming back SOON!
 
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Rajni

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Amen!
(I'm gone only four days and wow this thread is hoppin'! )




.

.
 
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Rajni

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Good point.




.
 
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Rajni

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Tissue said:
Of course, the counter-argument would be that God has too much respect for our free will to save us without our consent, but this argument (reiterated by many Christians without a second thought) seems like lunacy when actually considered.
Click to expand...
There is a certain imbalance to the idea that God would preserve our
temporal "free will" at the expense of our eternal well-being.



.
 
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Rajni

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That's for sure.

I think this concern is behind the development of the "age of
accountability" doctrine, though even that raises some serious
questions...



.
 
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timlamb

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chaela said:
There is a certain imbalance to the idea that God would preserve our
temporal "free will" at the expense of our eternal well-being.



.
Click to expand...
What makes you think "Free Will" is temporal? Scripture tells us even in the worst times men shake their fists at God, the believe, they hate Him.
 
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Rajni

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I looked this verse up in the lexicon and there is no Greek
equivalent for the word "should" in the verse.
If you mouse over the "should bow", you'll see that they are run
together, and the only word between the two that has a Greek
equivalent is the word "bow". This would suggest that it is saying
that "at the name of Jesus every knee bow". This is why such
translations as the New American Standard more accurately reflect
the sense of the verse by saying "at the name of Jesus every knee
will bow..."



 
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Rajni

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timlamb said:
What makes you think "Free Will" is temporal? Scripture tells us even in the worst times men shake their fists at God, the believe, they hate Him.
Click to expand...
Could you point me to the verses that indicate "free will" (so-called)
goes on endlessly in spite of God's power, might, will, and
transformative grace? Thanks in advance!




.
 
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Zaac

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Again, yall are making God out to be a buffoon. God has not been calling mankind to repentance for the last 6000 years just to turn around and say it really didn't matter if you were forgiven of your sins by way of the blood of Jesus.

If any iota of universalism is truth, then Jesus wasted His time dying on that Cross.

I for one will continue to teach the truth of His word and that He did not waste His time and that all men must proceed through Him for salvation or their eternity will be the Lake of Fire.
 
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Nadiine

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Ya, at times I can't believe it either - but then prophecy tells me
that's exactly what we'll see like never before in the times before
Christ's return.

The deception is just outrageous anymore - and all of it tends to do
one thing - either restrict people to intense legalism and rigid rule of
works based effort, or extreme worldliness to the point where they
just claim "God exists" & that gets them "saved" while they live
like the lost world.

It's either extreme. And Universalism allows people to ignore &
reject God all their life, die, SEE GOD (ie. no more faith is involved,
they have proof positive), THEN see the punishment in store for
them & hurry up & "repent".

Only the thing is, that isn't true repentance and it certainly isnt'
salvation by FAITH when God's wrathful hand is pointing at them
in judgment!
I'd "repent" too! lol

Judgment is for what you did and who you rejected in your God-
given life. I agree, Universalism is a mockery of God's grace and
calling to repentance when you don't actually need to down here
when you could of had the "best of both worlds" -
live however you want without suffering, then get heaven later.

What a gig!
Where do I sign up? (oh wait, sorry, I don't have to sign up,
it's just there for me no matter what). cheers!


.
 
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preistsplace

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So then what about all the people that died in various parts of the world before they could hear the Gospel and accept Christ, Are they in hell just because they didnt hear,and even if they lived decent lives. The truth you teach has driven some good people insane. And as far as what you are saying about Jesus wasting his time...Well you have completely missed the point ...The point is Jesus came and gave his life to save The World, If he had not have Given his life we would still be under the law and every one would still be guilty.....The only thing we universalists are guilty of is seeing the absolute and glorious victory of Christ. We dare to believe that God Loves and cares about all of his creation and is willing toi save those that are still lost .Your argument there is like saying that because christ Gave HIs blood on the Cross that Christians under Grace have an unlimited license to sin, which is wholly untrue.All men must proceed through Christ to salvation and in God's due time all will accept it........
 
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Jase

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While I wouldn't necessarily call myself a universalist, I find it funny that so many Christians promote the fire and brimstone hell, when it doesn't even exist in the Bible. Never underestimate the power of conversion through threat of eternal torture from a loving God.
 
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preistsplace

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Strain out a gnat and swallow a camel
 
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preistsplace

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too true in so many cases The orthodox veiw has taken passages that obviously involve a Great deal of symbolism and used them, in the literal sense to promote eternal Hell
 
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Zaac

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preistsplace said:
So then what about all the people that died in various parts of the world before they could hear the Gospel and accept Christ, Are they in hell just because they didnt hear,and even if they lived decent lives.
Click to expand...

First, God says that NO ONE has an excuse whether you have heard or not.
20For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse. Romans 1:20

Second, where does this notion come from that any level of decency lived by sinful man is good enough for a PERFECT, HOLY God?

The truth you teach has driven some good people insane.
Click to expand...

And here is part of the problem. People who think they are already good don't need a Savior. That's one of the primary problems with universalism.



And you're missing the point of the Cross. The very first thing Jesus said after being baptized was repent. He commissioned us to go and tell the world to do the same while telling them of His Gospel.

If you haven't accepted Him as Lord and Savior, you are still guilty. I mean seriously, yall would have to throw out the entire New Testament to make universalism true. There would have been no need for the disciples, no need for Paul preaching to the Gentiles, no need for missionaries, no need for the martyrs, none of it if everyone is immediately saved because of what Christ did on the Cross.

JUST WOW! I can't even believe that there is a group of people putting this stumbling block in front of a lost world.


The only thing we universalists are guilty of is seeing the absolute and glorious victory of Christ. We dare to believe that God Loves and cares about all of his creation and is willing toi save those that are still lost .
Click to expand...


That doesn't even make any sense. Do you hear what you're saying? If the victory of Christ was absolute and covered everyone without folks having to accept Him as Lord and Savior as you are implying, why would there be a need to still save lost people? by what you're saying, there are no more lost people.

I have heard some crazy stuff but this ine takes the cake.


Your argument there is like saying that because christ Gave HIs blood on the Cross that Christians under Grace have an unlimited license to sin, which is wholly untrue.
Click to expand...

Who said anything near that?

All men must proceed through Christ to salvation and in God's due time all will accept it........
Click to expand...

Just doesn't mesh with Biblical truth. That's why God says what He does about false teachers and their doctrine in the end of days.
 
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preistsplace

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Isa 45:21 Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me.
Isa 45:22 Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.
Isa 45:23 I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.
He will save all and it is stated plainly
 
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