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Universalism: pros and cons

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SpiritDriven

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Well let us get specific about the Universalist teaching being the only one in Line with the word of God, let us establish the authority of that teaching....

The Universalist position is to spread the Good News of the Gospel...

The Grace of God has appeared bring Salvation to all men Titus 2.11

God will have all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth (1 Timothy 2:4).

There is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave Himself as a ransom for all, to be testified in due time (1 Timothy 2:5-6).

And how could we overlook what Christ has commanded Paul that we teach...1 Timothy 4

1 Now the spirit is saying explicitly, that in subsequent eras some will be withdrawing from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and the teachings of demons,
2 in the hypocrisy of false expressions, their own conscience having been cauterized;
3 forbidding to marry, abstaining from foods, which God creates to be partaken of with thanksgiving by those who believe and realize the truth,
4 seeing that every creature of God is ideal and nothing is to be cast away, being taken with thanksgiving,
5 for it is hallowed through the word of God and pleading.
6 By suggesting these things to the brethren, you should be an ideal servant of Christ Jesus, fostering with the words of faith and of the ideal teaching which you have fully followed.
7 Now profane and old womanish myths refuse, yet exercise yourself in devoutness,
8 for bodily exercise is beneficial for a few things, yet devoutness is beneficial for all, having promise for the life which now is, and that which is impending.
9 Faithful is the saying and worthy of all welcome
10 (for for this are we toiling and being reproached), that we rely on the living God, Who is the Saviour of all mankind,
11 especially of believers. These things be charging and teaching.

As you can see the Universalist teaching never contradicts itself, as the word of God never contradicts itself
 
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SpiritDriven

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I think we should do as you suggested way back and just not talk to those who have brick walls completely fencing them in... and their only response to scripture is 'lie, lie, lie'...


Truly Tavita....they show the master they serve, yet did you notice how few there are over there that a hardened ?

Many that where meant to hear....did get to hear in those 2 threads....it was Gods purpose that was accomplished over there...not theirs.

Looking back did you notice how both of us never really wanted to be there.....but we where drawn back...that was not us Tavita.....Gods purpose for those predestined to hear was accomplished....all the Glory goes to him...

Grace and Peace to you
 
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SpiritDriven

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Do any of you feel sick to your Soul when you hear the Doctrines of Demons spewed forth from the mouths of those who speak lies in Hypocrasy ?

This could be why.... from Mathew....

10 And, calling the throng to Him, He said to them, "Hear and understand!
11 Not that which is entering into the mouth is contaminating a man, but that which is going out of the mouth, this is contaminating a man."
12 Then, approaching, the disciples said to Him, "Are you aware that the Pharisees, at hearing the word, are snared?"
 
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Crazy Liz

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It would be Good News if it didn't make Jesus Christ into a liar.

Didn't we engage in this discussion in the other thread?

To me it didn't seem like much of a discussion. More like:

lie



lie



lie



Yep



Already been testified



lie

If you want to have a conversation in which we both actually try to understand one another, fine. I offered that several times in the other thread, but the responses I got to those posts were either along the lines of the post above or no response at all.

How about if we agree not to say anything is a lie until we are sure we understand what the other person means by it and why they think so?

Would you be willing to converse under that groundrule?
 
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Crazy Liz

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Do any of you feel sick to your Soul when you hear the Doctrines of Demons spewed forth from the mouths of those who speak lies in Hypocrasy ?

This could be why.... from Mathew....

10 And, calling the throng to Him, He said to them, "Hear and understand!
11 Not that which is entering into the mouth is contaminating a man, but that which is going out of the mouth, this is contaminating a man."
12 Then, approaching, the disciples said to Him, "Are you aware that the Pharisees, at hearing the word, are snared?"
How about if we also agree not to call something "doctrine of demons" in this thread until we are sure we understand what the other person means and why they think so?
 
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Rajni

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The other thread is closed.

If you're not sick of the topic, have at it here.

I'm still interested in discussing the benefits or drawbacks of Universalism especially as relates to evangelistic efforts.

Feel free to range a bit off-topic also.

Oh thank you! The other thread just closed when I tried to post and was wondering where everyone was headed after that, LOL! :wave:
 
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Tavita

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Oh thank you! The other thread just closed when I tried to post and was wondering where everyone was headed after that, LOL! :wave:

Hey Chaela,

It hasn't actually closed... it's been split again after another 1000 posts.... it happens automatically.. :wave:
 
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Tavita

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Truly Tavita....they show the master they serve, yet did you notice how few there are over there that a hardened ?

Many that where meant to hear....did get to hear in those 2 threads....it was Gods purpose that was accomplished over there...not theirs.

Looking back did you notice how both of us never really wanted to be there.....but we where drawn back...that was not us Tavita.....Gods purpose for those predestined to hear was accomplished....all the Glory goes to him...

Grace and Peace to you


I know what you mean... :)
 
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Rajni

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From Post #11

Will God hold those responsible who portray God as cruel and capricious for those who reject God on that basis?

Personally, I don't believe that anyone's salvation is contingent upon another person's evangelical performance in the first place. This is why I got back into debating about Universalism when I saw a video over at GodTube called "A Letter From Hell", basically a scare-tactic to frighten believers into evangelizing lest their unsaved friend end up in hell as a direct result of their silence. This is based on what I believe is a false belief stemming from thinking that works can save us. Since our works cannot save even ourselves, our evangelistic works cannot save anyone else ... We evangelize to plant seeds, but God is the one who gives the increase.
 
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Rajni

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From Post #12

Are you talking about universal reconcilation? The main issue with it is that it ignores free will and the fact the soul/spirit exists outside of time and is therefore unchangable after death.

How might free will be bypassed in the context of universal-salvation?
 
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SpiritDriven

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From Post #12



How might free will be bypassed in the context of universal-salvation?

Free Will is not by passed with Universal Salvation and reconcilliation...

The only Free Will we do actualy have is weather we believe the word of God or not.....we still end up where God wants us in the end.

Each man in his order....
 
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Rajni

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#19

Isn't there a verse which says hell and death will be thrown into the lake of fire? Would not that annihilate them? I honestly don't know, do we know everything about what happens?


I posted the following right before the previous thread got shut down:

It's in response to post #995 over there. It reads:

Quote:
where it is written that any one is resurrected from the Second Death and reconciled to God.

If the last enemy to be destroyed is death, (1 Cor 15:26), I guess people have got to be resurrected from it, right? And if death is the last of the enemies to be done away with, there cannot be any other enemies around anywhere. So who is roasting endlessly in fiery lakes if there are no enemies left?


 
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Rajni

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From Post #25

From an evangelistic effort perspective, it renders evangelism unneeded. Why GO! and preach the Good News if everybody is saved? Why GO! and preach the need for a savior from sin and destruction if everybody is already saved? Why GO! and preach repentance if everybody is saved? Universalism and all that it stands for run contrary to the purpose of Jesus Christ dying on the cross and Commissioning His people to GO!

We go because we are commanded to. That should be reason enough for any God-fearin' feller.
 
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SpiritDriven

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#19



I posted the following right before the previous thread got shut down:

It's in response to post #995 over there. It reads:

Quote:


If the last enemy to be destroyed is death, (1 Cor 15:26), I guess people have got to be resurrected from it, right? And if death is the last of the enemies to be done away with, there cannot be any other enemies around anywhere. So who is roasting endlessly in fiery lakes if there are no enemies left?

Spot On Sister....notice how surrounding scripture describes no more pain or suffering every tear wiped away.... The Gospel is nothing but Good News!
 
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SpiritDriven

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To answer futher on the Free Will issue....

Man can be Will full yes....but it wont make any difference in the end, anybody who comes into the presence of God, never wants to leave that presence again, because of the perfect Love emanating from him.

That is how all mankind will end up in the end....and in the end is what it is all about.

In the meantime those who preach the Doctrine of Free Will, boast before God that they saved themselves via an act of their own Free Will....

 
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SpiritDriven

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From Post #37



So repeating what Jesus Himself said, that He would draw ALL men to Himself, is lying? I are cornfuzed....


Look up the meaning of the Word Draw....to apply continuose force to an object to move it away or towards yourself... to drag.

Free Will was never involved.....we did not choose God....he chose us...
 
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