Most would say pride comes before a fall. Good luck with these boastful thoughts and your boastful lack of shame at knocking what you obviously have not made an effort to even read.
The point about Hilter was to totally refute your prior attempted to grossly assume about me, the Church and most Christians in regards to what you mistakenly think most Christians believe about who will be in hell. I see you did not get that. Since my short post was obviously not understood and if one has actually read any CS Lewis or any notable Christian theologian, am not sure why I should trust your opinion of those writers.
Am not sure which part you think you have not read in the Creation stories unless you are assuming Satan did not lie about death and instead God lied about it. But then I guess someone proudly boasting a belief that God creates evil in the face of thousands of years of Christian writers to the contrary, it should not surprise us that the idea of UR requires a smallness about God (that He would lie) like no other belief held by Christians. A reoccurring theme here. God does not create evil and does not lie. Just like He said would happen, the Adam that existed prior to this event died that very day, both spiritually and physically.
But then if someone is going to imagine God lying and creating evil, and Satan telling the truth ("come on you are not really going to die, the big guy just doesn't want you to have that because then you will be like Him" - which he did to spark envy in their minds) I can guess I can see how such a person could read the creation story and claim they had never heard anyone say death came that day in order to see that in the story.
Also kind of obvious (and sad) that a person boasting they do not care what thousands of years of Christian writers have said, that this person has not bothered to read much of those writings to be able to say they had never understood how someone could see that death really did come that very day in the story before they had read that in my post. I cannot take credit for any of this as my original thoughts. Had they actually read what they claim not to care about they would know that.
Hello my friend sorry for the delay. This weekend was my anniversary, so I had to spend some time with the wife.
I would say ignorance came before the "fall".
Actually, I believe I already told you that I have read plenty from all of these theologians. I also read the article you sent, and I asked a few questions about it. I also read the Catechism concerning hell, and I asked a few questions about that as well. I have yet to receive a single answer or Scripture about any of these things.
My friend, if I boast, I boast in the Lord. He has done all things. My idea of boasting is a tad bit different than yours. To boast is to say that
I have done something worth boasting about. As though
I chose to love God
myself out of
my own self righteousness. As if
I gave up
my own life, and died for
my own sins.
I have
not done any of those things, nor do I deserve anything that God has done for me. As far as I know, I am the worst of sinners. I don't know what other people think about or what their intentions are, but I know my own heart. And yet, while I was still in my sins,
He saved me.
Tell me my friend, who is a "notable theologian"? Where are they?
"Where
is the wise? where
is the scribe? where
is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?
For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the
foolishness of preaching to save them that believe." 1 Corinthians 1:20
Paul is a notable theologian. I have quoted him several times. And even he says:
"Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?" 1 Corinthians 1:15
Other notable theologians are Peter, John, James, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Moses, David, ect, just to name a few. Here is a whole list of theologians throughout the ages that I belive are very trustworthy:
http://www.theheraldofgodsgrace.org/Library.htm
As far as the Garden incident, I've already given an interpretation, verse by verse, about what I believe happened. You never addressed any of it. The only thing that was said about it, is that the article I provided did not have the word "make" as an example of the perfect aspect. Why did God say "let us make man in our image, after our
likeness" and then say "man has become
as (like) one of us"
after Adam ate the Fruit? Why did God plant the Tree of Knowledge in the Garden? Did the Devil have to ask God for permission before he could deceive Eve, like he had to with Job? Did God say yes with a sincere hope that Adam and Eve would not be deceived? Was this hope in vain? Did the Creator of all things have His will thwarted just a few days after He created all things?
You are more than welcome to judge my character. However, I as well do not take credit for any of these thoughts. The Scriptures say this is true, and I believe what they say. They say God works all things after the council of His own will. They say that man's goings are not of himself, and God directs our steps; even the words that come out of our mouths is of God. They say that He knows the future, and that He is never wrong.
Anyways, I guess I'm done here. We have been taking about this for a while now, and I'm not even sure if we're talking about the same Scriptures. I guess I will meet you over at one of your other threads, and we can finish this conversation over there.
Thank you my friend and God bless.