Universal Reconciliation

[FineLinen]

"And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all unto me."

**** "Will draw the whole creation to myself." -E.V. Rieu-

**** "Shall draw everyone to Myself." - Berkeley-

**** "I will attract all men to Myself." -Ronald Knox-

**** "And when I am lifted up....I shall attract all towards Myself." -Ferrar Fenton-

**** "Will draw all unto myself." -J.B. Rotherham-

Dr. Brooke Foss Westcott

Says of John 12:32, in the Speaker's Commentary: "(ta panta) all men: The phrase must not be limited in any way. It cannot mean merely 'Gentiles as well as Jews,' or 'the elect,' or 'all that believe.' We must receive it as it stands (Romans 5:18; 8:32; 2 Cor. 5:15; Eph. 1:10; 2 Corinthians 5:15 1 Tim. 2:6; Hebr. 2:9; 1 John 2:2)

The remarkable reading 'all things' (omnia) points to a still wider application of Redemption (Col. 1:20)."

"Lifted Up"= Hupsoo

Hupsoo=

To lift on high.

To exalt.

To raise to the very summit.

To raise to dignity and honour.

"Will draw"

Draw= Helkuo

To draw.

To drag off.

To draw by an inward power.

To lead.

To impel.

Helkuo all

All= Pas=

Radically means all!

"Will draw all unto"

Unto= Pros

Pros=

To the advantage of.

At/ near/ by/ to/ towards.

[move]"And I will draw the whole creation to Myself."[/move]

http://www.cyberhymnal.org/htm/h/a/haillord.htm

 

[rudenski]

Free will was given to angels even... all things will be reconcile to God by our own free will.

 

[Rockhead]

Free will was given to angels even... all things will be reconcile to God by our own free will.

Rudenski, this is exciting information! "All things will be reconcile to God by our own free will." Could you point us to the scripture that speaks of reconciliation to God by "our own free will?"

"...born NOT of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, BUT OF GOD"

"...not by any works we have done BUT..."

There is only one Source of reconciliation and it does not lie in the will of clay! In fact, the source, the guide and the goal is firmly centered in the Author of all things!

Could you describe to us how you by your "own free will" were doomed in Adam. When did you choose to become part of the fallen human race? Are we to assume it was willingly?

 

[Rockhead]

"And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all unto me."

**** "Will draw the whole creation to myself." -E.V. Rieu-

**** "Shall draw everyone to Myself." - Berkeley-

**** "I will attract all men to Myself." -Ronald Knox-

**** "And when I am lifted up....I shall attract all towards Myself." -Ferrar Fenton-

**** "Will draw all unto myself." -J.B. Rotherham-

Dr. Brooke Foss Westcott

Says of John 12:32, in the Speaker's Commentary: "(ta panta) all men: The phrase must not be limited in any way. It cannot mean merely 'Gentiles as well as Jews,' or 'the elect,' or 'all that believe.' We must receive it as it stands (Romans 5:18; 8:32; 2 Cor. 5:15; Eph. 1:10; 2 Corinthians 5:15 1 Tim. 2:6; Hebr. 2:9; 1 John 2:2)

The remarkable reading 'all things' (omnia) points to a still wider application of Redemption (Col. 1:20)."

"Lifted Up"= Hupsoo

Hupsoo=

To lift on high.

To exalt.

To raise to the very summit.

To raise to dignity and honour.

"Will draw"

Draw= Helkuo

To draw.

To drag off.

To draw by an inward power.

To lead.

To impel.

Helkuo all

All= Pas=

Radically means all!

"Will draw all unto"

Unto= Pros

Pros=

To the advantage of.

At/ near/ by/ to/ towards.

[move]"And I will draw the whole creation to Myself."[/move]

Thankyou F.L. It is amazing how many Christians refuse to believe "all" means all, and "whole" is less than whole.

"And he is the propitiation for our sins, and not for our sins only, but the sins of the whole world."

 

[Rockhead]

I wonder what James Montgomery was feeling when he penned the following hymn?

Hail to the Lord’s anointed, great David’s greater Son!
Hail in the time appointed, His reign on earth begun!
He comes to break oppression, to set the captive free;
To take away transgression and rule in equity.

He comes in succor speedy to those who suffer wrong;
To help the poor and needy, and bid the weak be strong;
To give them songs for sighing, their darkness turn to light,
Whose souls, condemned and dying, were precious in His sight.

By such shall He be fearèd while sun and moon endure;
Beloved, obeyed, reverèd; for He shall judge the poor
Through changing generations, with justice, mercy, truth,
While stars maintain their stations, or moons renew their youth.

He shall come down like showers upon the fruitful earth;
Love, joy, and hope, like flowers, spring in His path to birth.
Before Him, on the mountains, shall peace, the herald, go,
And righteousness, in fountains, from hill to valley flow.

Arabia’s desert ranger to Him shall bow the knee;
The Ethiopian stranger His glory come to see;
With offerings of devotion ships from the isles shall meet,
To pour the wealth of oceans in tribute at His feet.

Kings shall fall down before Him, and gold and incense bring;
All nations shall adore Him, His praise all people sing;
For He shall have dominion o’er river, sea and shore,
Far as the eagle’s pinion or dove’s light wing can soar.

For Him shall prayer unceasing and daily vows ascend;
His kingdom still increasing, a kingdom without end:
The mountain dews shall nourish a seed in weakness sown,
Whose fruit shall spread and flourish and shake like Lebanon.

O’er every foe victorious, He on His throne shall rest;
From age to age more glorious, all blessing and all blest.
The tide of time shall never His covenant remove;
His Name shall stand forever, His Name to us is Love.

 

[rudenski]

When every knee shall bow and every tounge shall confess that Jesus Christ is Lord there is an assumption that the confession is forced by God himself but this is an incorrect assumption. The dead know nothing at all but when they awake(see the light) darkness itself will flee from off of them. Imagine the judgement of God as shining a light into your soul. So how much of you will flee from the light and how much will stay in the the light? This is what you get that you can call your own in heaven(pearls). You get to keep your blessings(your treasures) for eternity. Build your house of pearls in heaven because even as you sleep, the foundation of your heavenly home is being secured for you in a deed of love.

"good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people" (Lk. 2:10).

"as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive..every man in his own order" (1 Co. 15:22-23).

Lamentations 3:31,32 God will not cast off forever

 

[FineLinen]

Many throughout the history of the Christian church have grasped the ultimate triumph of Jesus Christ over all mankind. It was the prevailing doctrine of the first five hundred years, and can be readily demonstrated for those who have ears to hear. Ministers, evangelists, theologians, poets, men of government etc. etc. and ordinary joes who have a heart after truth, hear what the Spirit is saying to the churches.

Dr. P.B. Fitzwater, Professor of Systematic Theology of the Moody Bible Institute, has written in his book Christian Theology (1948)....Page 407

"Then there is the Universalist who declares that the redemption provided by Christ avails for the salvation of all men. This means that what God has done for the salvation of sinful men accrues to the benefit of all men. This view of Universalism is quite widespread. Many leaders in the evangelical church hold to this view, even though they have not dared to declare it."

Of the six theological schools known to exist from the second to the fourth centuries, four of them believed and taught the concepts of Christian Universalism, one taught annihilation, and only one taught eternal torment, the school of Rome. You find members of almost every Christian communion, Greek, Romish, Lutheran, Church of England, Presbyterian, Methodist, Baptist, Friends, etc., etc., differing widely in many respects, but all agreeing in this one Divine truth, that God loves all men, and will have them to be saved; that Christ gave himself a ransom for all, and that all will ultimately be brought to holiness and happiness. -Dr. J.W. Hanson-

1. The Earliest Creeds

2. Early Christianity A Cheerful Religion

3. Origin Of Endless Punishment

4. Doctrines Of Mitigation And Reserve

5. Tho Kindred Topics

6. The Apostle's Immediate Successors

7. The Gnostic Sects

8. The Sibylline Oracles

9. Pantaenus And Clement

10. Origen

11. Origen--Continued

12. The Eulogists Of Origen

13. A Third Century Group

14. Minor Authorities

15. Gregory Nazianzen

16. Theodore Of Mopsuestia & The Nestorians

17. A Notable Family

18. Additional Authorities

19. The Deterioration Of Christian Thought

20. Augustine--Deterioration Continued

21. Unsuccessful Attempts To Suppress Universalism

22. The Eclipse Of Universalism.

23. Summary of Conclusions

http://hellbusters.8m.com/updcontents.html

http://www.tentmaker.org/books/Prevailing.html

 

[FineLinen]

When every knee shall bow and every tounge shall confess that Jesus Christ is Lord there is an assumption that the confession is forced by God himself but this is an incorrect assumption. The dead know nothing at all but when they awake(see the light) darkness itself will flee from off of them. Imagine the judgement of God as shining a light into your soul. So how much of you will flee from the light and how much will stay in the the light? This is what you get that you can call your own in heaven(pearls). You get to keep your blessings(your treasures) for eternity. Build your house of pearls in heaven because even as you sleep, the foundation of your heavenly home is being secured for you in a deed of love.

"good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people" (Lk. 2:10).

"as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive..every man in his own order" (1 Co. 15:22-23).

Lamentations 3:31,32 God will not cast off forever

Hi there Rudenski and thankyou for your post. The birth of Jesus Christ was announced by the angelic host with the words you have quoted, "Be not afraid, I bring you tidings of great joy which shall be to all people." Jesus Christ the Saviour (Jehovah is salvation) is great, His tidings are great, they are tidings of great joy, and they reach to all people. The "all" does not mean all gang, and whole is less than whole gang dispute it, but our Father's word stands quite secure in our hearts.

[move]"Do not be afraid, I bring you tidings of great joy which shall be to all people."[/move]

1 Corinthians 15: 21-28

21. For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.

22. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

23. But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

24. Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

25. For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
Psl. 110:1- Matt 22:44- Luke 20:43- Acts 2:34- Heb 1:13

26. The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

27. For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.

28. And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.


Assuredly the Bible is not the story of sin, deepening into eternal ruin, of God's Son, worsted in His utmost effort; it is from the opening to the close the story of grace stronger than sin--of life victorious over every form of death--of God triumphing over evil.

All= Pas=

Radically means all! (See Vine's Expository Dictionary)

Pas; including all the forms of declension; apparently a primitive word; all, any, every, the whole:--all manner of, means), alway(-s), any (one)x daily, + ever, every (one, way), as many as, + no (-thing) X thoroughly, whatsoever, whole, whosover. -Dr. James Strong-

http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/Greek/grk.cgi?number=3956&version=

"Pas Die"= Pas Apothnesko

Apothnesko=

http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/Greek/grk.cgi?number=599&version=

"In Christ shall pas be made alive."

Be made Alive= Zoopoieo

Zoopoieo=

http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/Greek/grk.cgi?number=2227&version=

"But every/pas man in his own order"

1. Christ the firstfruits.

2. Afterward they that are Christ's at His coming.

3. The onward progression of our Lord's Intention In Stages

a. The delivering up of the kingdom to the Father.

b. The putting down of all/pas rule & the putting down of all/pas authority and power.

c. Christ must reign, till He has put all/pas enemies under his feet.

"But every man" = Hekastos

Hekastos=

http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/Greek/grk.cgi?number=1538&version=kjv

"Hekastos in his own order"

Order= Tagma=

http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/Greek/grk.cgi?number=5001&version=

"Christos the firstfruits"

Firstfruits= Aparche=

http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/Greek/grk.cgi?number=536&version=

"When He shall have delivered up"

He shall have delivered up= Paradidomi=

http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/Greek/grk.cgi?number=3860&version=

"When He shall have put down"

Put down= Katargeo=

http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/Greek/grk.cgi?number=2673&version=

"For He must reign til He hath put"

Hath put= Tithemi=

http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/Greek/grk.cgi?number=5087&version=

"The last enemy that shall be destroyed"

Shall be destroyed= Katargeo

Katargeo=

To render idle, unemployed, inactivate, inoperative.

To cause a person or thing to have no further efficiency.

To deprive of force, influence, power.

To cause to cease, put an end to, do away with, annul, abolish.

To cease, to pass away, be done away.

http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/Greek/grk.cgi?number=2673&version=

"Katargeo is death"

Death= Thanatos=

http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/Greek/grk.cgi?number=2288&version=

"For He hath put pas under His feet"

Hath put= hupotasso

Under= hupotasso=

To arrange under, to subordinate.

To subject, put in subjection.

To subject one's self, obey.

To submit to one's control.

To yield to one's admonition or advice.

To obey, be subject.

A Greek military term meaning "to arrange [troop divisions] in a military fashion under the command of a leader". In non-military use, it was "a voluntary attitude of giving in, cooperating, assuming responsibility, and carrying a burden".

http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/Greek/grk.cgi?number=5293&version=

"And when pas shall be subdued unto Him"

Subdued= Hupotasso=

http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/Greek/grk.cgi?number=5293&version=

"Then shall the Son himself also be subject"

Be subject=hupotasso=

http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/Greek/grk.cgi?number=5293&version=

"Then shall the Son himself also be hupotasso unto Him that put"

Unto Him that put= hupotasso=

http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/Greek/grk.cgi?number=5293&version=

"Then shall the Son himself hupotasso hupotasso pas hupotasso Him, that Theos may be pas in pas"

"Gar en Adam pas apothnesko kai houto en Christos zoopoieo pas zoopoieo.

De hekastos en idios tagma Christos aparche epeita ho Christos en autos parousia.

Eita telos hotan achri paradidomi basileia Theos Pater hotan katargeo pas arche kai pas exousia kai dunamis.

Gar autos dei basileuo hou achri tithemi pas echthros hupo auto pous.
Eschatos echthros katargeo thanatos.

Gar hupotasso pas hupo autos pous. De hotan epo pas hupotasso delos hoti ektos hupotasso pas hupotasso autos.

De hotan pas hupotasso autos tote hupotasso huios kai autos hupotasso hupotasso pas hupotasso autos hina Theos o pas en pas."

 

[deg]

De hotan pas hupotasso autos tote hupotasso huios kai autos hupotasso hupotasso pas hupotasso autos hina Theos o pas en pas."

I'm just glad the scripture is so clear about things like this. Either God is presiding in the entirety of His creation here, or my car is painting my shirt with peanutbutter; it's all greek to me.

Preach it brother, the world needs to see and taste the manifold, no, HUPER-manifold love of the Father of fathers. A love to end all loves and a provision to end all provisions in the gift which has reconciled, is reconciling, and will reconcile creation unto our He that calleth unto the deep of every man. Praise be to our Glorious Light who had, in the fulness of time, stepped down into the realm of darkness to lead them that are dead out of the bonage of decay, and into a liberty which only He can provide. Oh glorious liberty of Spirit and Life!

May the ministry of reconciliation abound in all our words and deeds.

 

[FineLinen]

I'm just glad the scripture is so clear about things like this. Either God is presiding in the entirety of His creation here, or my car is painting my shirt with peanutbutter; it's all greek to me.

Preach it brother, the world needs to see and taste the manifold, no, HUPER-manifold love of the Father of fathers. A love to end all loves and a provision to end all provisions in the gift which has reconciled, is reconciling, and will reconcile creation unto our He that calleth unto the deep of every man. Praise be to our Glorious Light who had, in the fulness of time, stepped down into the realm of darkness to lead them that are dead out of the bonage of decay, and into a liberty which only He can provide. Oh glorious liberty of Spirit and Life!

May the ministry of reconciliation abound in all our words and deeds.

Hi there Deg The wonderful thing regarding the One whose tracks are trackless, is that all aspects of His Person are in the dimension of simple and simply. His manifold wisdom breaks around us in spiritual dimensions of glory, in wheels within wheels of His burning Presence, leading deeper and deeper into the vortex of Himself. Yes, Deg, the poikilos glory is simple and straitforward?

One of most favorite expressions of our Father's glorious Presence is George MacDonald, who writes regarding "the outer laminar spheres of the unspeakable unknown", which should declare to our little beings how little we truly have known and experienced. I know this, in one single pin-prick of light there are 1500 additional galaxies never before discovered from the terrestial realms of our world. In those galaxies, and points of light are poikilos glory speaking of the Poikilos God declaring Himself from the stones of fire within the cheribim.

Our Father has placed within each of our breasts the bondage of slaves. This subjection by hupotosso has resulted in us being made subject to bondage...

"Not Willingly"

"But by reason of Him who has subjected/hupotosso the same in hope."

Now Deg, tell us what is the hope to which our Glorious Father of all fathers has subjected us?

[move]"And the hope is that in the end the whole of created life/the whole universe will be delivered from the bondage of slaves into the glorious liberty of the children of God."[/move]

 

[deg]

I believe that hope is this: that those created persons, who were unwillingly subjected to fleshly captivity should be freed from the peremptory oppression of present circumstance, and released into the radiant freedom of the progeny of our Heavenly Father.

hupotosso - quite a word. Many things within that word, when we grasp it, aren't there?

Deg

 

[snerkel]

Similarly, eternal punishment is not of duration, but quality. Two points bring this idea to common sense:

1) It is inconceivable to freely admit (that is, without theological limitations) that a slew of sins, regardless of their depth, aside from sheer rebellion, should be worthy of eternal torment. To claims as Anselm that the punishment depends on the subject offended -- God -- is contrary to every form of the retributivist model.
2) In the scriptural claim, "These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life." (Matthew 25:46), the word eternal here must mean that of perfection (the presence of God -- Rev. 14:10), for the word meaning 'punishment' in Greek, in all other uses of Greek literature, conveys the idea of retribution and rehabilitation according to such as William Barclay.

I did not realize you were a Universal Redemptionist.

Matthew 25:46 utilizes the Greek word Aionios (Strong's number 166) for the word eternal.

It is defined as:

1. without beginning and end, that which always has been and always will be
2. without beginning
3. without end, never to cease, everlasting

Have a nice evening Received.

 

[rnmomof7]

"And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all unto me."

**** "Will draw the whole creation to myself." -E.V. Rieu-

**** "Shall draw everyone to Myself." - Berkeley-

**** "I will attract all men to Myself." -Ronald Knox-

**** "And when I am lifted up....I shall attract all towards Myself." -Ferrar Fenton-

**** "Will draw all unto myself." -J.B. Rotherham-

Dr. Brooke Foss Westcott

Says of John 12:32, in the Speaker's Commentary: "(ta panta) all men: The phrase must not be limited in any way. It cannot mean merely 'Gentiles as well as Jews,' or 'the elect,' or 'all that believe.' We must receive it as it stands (Romans 5:18; 8:32; 2 Cor. 5:15; Eph. 1:10; 2 Corinthians 5:15 1 Tim. 2:6; Hebr. 2:9; 1 John 2:2)

The remarkable reading 'all things' (omnia) points to a still wider application of Redemption (Col. 1:20)."

The issue is not the verb draw it is the object of the verb

PAS (all)..and that is a limited all all ...He will draw all that the father gives him (John 6). A limited all not a universal all."Dr" Weskcott is reading his personal bias into his opinion of this verse. There is no scholarship to indicate that all men without exception just look around you for the proof of that , and Knox added the word men to bring the scripture into line with what he believes

I will draw all men to me; which is not to be understood of the concourse of people about him, when on the cross, some for him, and others against him, some to bewail him, and others to reproach him; but rather of the gathering of the elect to him, and in him, as their head and representative, when he was crucified for them; or of the collection of them, through the ministry of the apostles, and of their being brought to believe on him for eternal life and salvation: and this drawing of them to him, in consequence of his death, supposes distance from him, want of power, and will, to came to him, and the efficacious grace of God to bring them, though without any force and compulsion; and
this is to be understood not of every individual of human nature; for all are not drawn to Christ, or enabled to come to him, and believe in him. There were many of the Jews who would not, and did not come to him for life; and who instead of being drawn to him in this sense, when lifted up on the cross, vilified and reproached him; moreover, in the preceding verse, "a world" is spoken of, whose judgment, or condemnation, was now come; and besides, there was at this time a multitude of souls in hell, who could not, nor never will be, drawn to Christ; and a greater number still there will be at the last day, who, instead of drawing to him in this gracious way and manner, will be bid to depart from him, as having been workers of iniquity.

Christ died indeed for all men who are drawn unto him; but this is not true of all men, that are, were, or shall be in the world. Add to this, that the word "men" is not in the text, it is only pantav, "all": Beza's most ancient copy, and some others, and the Vulgate Latin version read panta, "all things"; and by "all" are meant, all the elect of God, all the children of God, "that were scattered abroad"; the Persic version reads, "I will draw my friends to me"; it designs some of all sorts of men, of every state, condition, age, sex, and nation, Gentiles as well as Jews, and especially the former; which agrees with the ancient prophecy,
Genesis 49:10, and with the context, and the occasion of the words, which was the desire of the Greeks, that were come to the feast, to see Jesus; and which was a specimen of the large numbers of them, that should be drawn to Christ, through the preaching of the Gospel, after his death: the Jews say, that in the time to come, or in the days of the Messiah, all the proselytes shall be Myrwrg, "drawn," shall freely become proselytes {e}. The allusion here, is to the setting up of a standard or ensign, to gather persons together. Christ's cross is the standard, his love is the banner, and he himself is the ensign, which draw souls to himself, and engage them to enlist themselves under him, and become his volunteers in the day his power; see Isaiah 11:10.
Gill

No universal salvation taught here
Jhn 12:48**
He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

 

[fatboys]

I did not realize you were a Universal Redemptionist.

Matthew 25:46 utilizes the Greek word Aionios (Strong's number 166) for the word eternal.

It is defined as:

1. without beginning and end, that which always has been and always will be
2. without beginning
3. without end, never to cease, everlasting

Have a nice evening Received.

I have a question, since God means eternal or no beginning and no end, then how can he be alpha and omega? Doesn't that mean I am the beginning and the end? Could someone explain this to me.

 

[FineLinen]

The theme of this link is the ultimate triumph of Jesus Christ over all death, all foes, all things. His triumph extends to all corners of the earth, the deepest hell, the highest heaven and the underworld. Our Lord has declared that when He is lifted high and raised to the summit, the hupsoo will be one of dignity and honour. He will draw and drag off and lead and impel all to Himself. "All to Me" means exactly that. I will draw by an inward power, and drag and impel and lead everyone to Myself" Everyone!

The words of the greatest scholars of Koine must be heard. We can close our ears and minds and hearts, but "ta panta", all men, must not be limited in any way...we must receive it as it stands!

Let's consider for a moment the extent of the filling of the all. He will pleroo/ pleres the pas!

"He that descended is the same that ascended far above all heavens, so that He might fill all things.

"He has descended"

Descended= Katabaino=

http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/Greek/grk.cgi?number=2597&version=kjv

"He has ascended up"

Ascended up= Anabaino=

http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/Greek/grk.cgi?number=305&version=kjv

"That He might fill"

Fill= Pleroo=

To make full.

To fill up. To fill to the full.

To cause to abound.

To furnish or supply liberally.

To be liberally supplied.

To render full. To complete.

To fill to the top so that nothing shall be wanting.

To fill to full measure. To fill to the brim.

To consummate.

To make complete in every particular.

To render perfect.

To carry through to the end.

To accomplish and carry out an undertaking.

To carry into effect.

To bring to realisation.

To bring to pass. To ratify.

To cause the Eternal's will to be obeyed.

To bring the Eternal's promises through the prophets to fulfillment.

http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/Greek/grk.cgi?number=4137&version=kjv

Pleroo Rooted In Pleres

Pleres=

To fill up empty or hollow vessels.

Covered in every part.

The soul thoroughly permeated with full.

Completeness.

Perfection.

Lacking nothing.

http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/Greek/grk.cgi?number=4134&version=kjv

"That He might fill the all"

All things= Pas=

Radically means all! (Vine's Expository Dictionary Of The N.T.)

 

[FineLinen]

I have a question, since God means eternal or no beginning and no end, then how can he be alpha and omega? Doesn't that mean I am the beginning and the end? Could someone explain this to me.

Hi there Fatboys....There is only one object/Being in the universe that is eternal, and that is our Heavenly Lord. He is the Source, He is the Guide and He is the Goal of all/pas that is. He is indeed the beginning and the ending. He is the A to Z and all that is in between. But He also dwells beyond time! Have you ever looked at the power of ten?

http://micro.magnet.fsu.edu/primer/java/scienceopticsu/powersof10/

Aionios/ Olam/ Aion -Dr. J.W. Hanson-

http://www.godstruthfortoday.org/Library/hanson/Aion-Aionios.htm

 

[FineLinen]

The issue is not the verb draw it is the object of the verb

PAS (all)..and that is a limited all all ...He will draw all that the father gives him (John 6). A limited all not a universal all."Dr" Weskcott is reading his personal bias into his opinion of this verse. There is no scholarship to indicate that all men without exception just look around you for the proof of that , and Knox added the word men to bring the scripture into line with what he believes

Nonsense! Dr. Westcott, of Westcott and Hort status, is recognized as one of the foremost authorities on Koine. "All", my friend, radically means all. It is not all men, or all women it is the all....radically! Are we to assume Vine's Expository Dictionary Of New Testament Words is reading his bias into all as well?


Our Lord will indeed draw all that the Father has given Him. He will radically draw all the Father has given Him! In fact....


[move]"Through the Son God made the whole universe, and to the Son He has ordained all creation shall ultimately belong."[/move]

Dr. B. F. Westcott

Says of John 12:32, in the Speaker's Commentary: "(ta panta) all men: The phrase must not be limited in any way. It cannot mean merely 'Gentiles as well as Jews,' or 'the elect,' or 'all that believe.' We must receive it as it stands (Romans 5:18; 8:32; 2 Cor. 5:15; Eph. 1:10; 2 Corinthians 5:15 1 Tim. 2:6; Hebr. 2:9; 1 John 2:2)

The remarkable reading 'all things' (omnia) points to a still wider application of Redemption (Col. 1:20)."

The Westcott And Hort Greek New Testament

http://www.kamon-design.com/Westcott-Hort.htm

"His work in conjunction with Hort upon the Greek text of the New Testament will endure as one of the greatest achievements of English Biblical criticism. The principles which are explained in Horts introduction to the text had been arrived at after years of elaborate investigation and continual correspondence and discussion between the two friends. The place which it almost at once took among scientific scholars in Great Britain and throughout Europe was a recognition of the great advance which it represented in the use and classification of ancient authorities. His commentaries rank with Lightfoots as the best type of Biblical exegesis produced by the English Church in the 19th Century.

http://58.1911encyclopedia.org/W/WE/WESTCOTT_BROOKE_FOSS.htm

 

[snerkel]

I have a question, since God means eternal or no beginning and no end, then how can he be alpha and omega? Doesn't that mean I am the beginning and the end? Could someone explain this to me.

First, God does not mean eternal or no beginning and no end. God is a term which means Deity. It is also defined as being the Godhead.

Second, Alpha and Omega represents the whole of creation, this does not indicate a beginning or ending of the Deity, but of creation.

*Aleph to Tau is a proverbial expression used by the Jews to represent the whole of any thing. *John Gill's Exposition of the Bible

 

[FineLinen]

I believe in limited atonement

My friend, is that the same limited atonement to which the Apostle John referred?

"And He is the propitiation for our sins; and not for our sins only/monos, but also for the sins of the whole world. -1 John 2:2-

Could you elaborate on the hilasmos of the holos for us?

[move]"For as by one man's disobedience polus were rendered sinful, so, too, through the obedience of the One shall polus be rendered righteous."[/move]

 

[FineLinen]

The Outcome Of Infinite Grace -Dr. Loyal F. Hurley-

http://www.fellowship.to/outcome.html

Okay, I read the article you referenced, Finelinen. I'll admit that it did make some compelling arguments. I notice that the Weymouth translation is heavily referenced.

There are countless numbers of individuals of the same quality who likewise have touched the Living One in this aspect of His purposes. The following link should lead you to a "few" of them;

God's Truth For Today

LINK

I counted twice that Weymouth was referenced in the first 18 pages of The Outcome Of Infinite Grace. For comparision of Dr. Weymouth with other translations, you will find the following of much help in your search for our Father's articulation in the written Word.

Compare Scriptural Passages

http://www.crosswire.org/sword/biblenew/passagestudy.jsp?open=allBibles

On the face of it, the concept of universal reconciliation suggests no need to evangelize, no need to repent of sin, no ultimate need for Christ to die on the cross, etc.

My friend, my Uncle George labored in Bolivia as a missionary for over 50 years and gave his life there for those he and our Father loved. We have friends that have laboured in the glad tidings of Jesus Christ in Pakistan. I assure you they believed in our Father's purpose to restore the whole creation to find its one Head in Christ. The basis of all that our Father does in at one ment (atonement) is the propitiation accomplished in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ who is the propitiation for our sins, and not for our sins only/monos but for the sins of the holos/whole world.

The Cross And The Ages To Come -G. Campbell Morgan-

http://home.att.net/~spiritword/morgan/morgan_1.htm

The discussion of man's will being made supreme over God's will (God would that all men be saved, but a man can reject God by an act of his free will) is disingenuous. If God chooses to create a being with free will, then He violates this choice by circumventing this free will. It is not correct to say that because God chooses not to do something this is the same as saying God is not ABLE to do something (a point made by the author in this discussion).

The Will of all wills is supreme! "We have been chosen in accordance with the intention of Him whose might carries out in EVERYTHING the design of His own will." It is that Will that declares prior to this He will gather together in One all things in the heaven and earth in His beloved Son. This Summary is with consultation with none other, but centered in Himself.

The Supreme will has positioned all creation in slavery in the first Adam. We have been made the bondservants of sin, "not willingly, but by reason of Him who has subjected the same in hope." And what is the hope?

"For the creation was made subject to slavery, not willingly, but by reason of Him who has subjected the same in hope, because the creation itself shall be delivered from the bondage of slavery into the glorious Doxa..."

I agree that it is soothing to believe that ultimately God will redeem all mankind. It helps solve a lot of nagging issues for us. I'm not convinced that it reconciles to the holiness of God, a characteristic that seems absent from most, if not all, the discussion.

"Soothing" does not enter into the equation! I prefer to take the "unwashed masses" and destroy them, and some with a drawn out aspect of revenge. But, our Father is the Father of all fathers, His judgements are life, His punishment is not an end in itself, but leads to correction and change and rectitude. He has taught us to forgive our enemies. Are we to assume His love and grace and patience and longsuffering ultimately ends for His at the graveside?

Have you read Justice by George MacDonald yet? Please take the time, my friend, and consider what this lovely man has penned. I do appreciate you taking the time to read "The Outcome Of Infinite Grace", please consider the link between justice and mercy when you get a quiet moment.....

Justice (15 Pages In Six Parts)

http://www.kingdomlife.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2644

Most of the church teaches that eternal damnation results for those who reject the sacrifice of Christ because God cannot violate His holy (perfect) nature. God creates a way (Christ) so that we can appropriate Christ's holiness as our own since we can never measure up to God's perfect standard. It is not clear how those who reject this gift in this age are able to avail themselves of it in a subsequent age.

The early church for the first five hundred years leaned to the restitution of all things. Of the six schools of Alexandria, one believed in our Father tormenting His creation forever without any possibility of rectitude, one believed in total destruction (annihilation), and four out of six in the restoration of our Father's whole creation back to Himself.

The First Five Hundred Years -Dr. J.W. Hanson-

http://www.tentmaker.org/books/Prevailing.html

I am not convinced that this UR doctrine is Scripturally supported. However, I do intend to review my Strong's Concordance to see what Hebrew and Greek words are used and how they are translated, for words such as "death", "age/world/eternity", "forever/everlasting/etc.".

Exellent! You might also like to consider the Etymology of aionios/olam/aion etc. also by John Hanson.

http://www.godstruthfortoday.org/Library/hanson/Aion-Aionios.htm

The other thing that strikes me about this teaching is how time-bounded it is. Everything seems to hinge on the concept of "age" and no room is given to God's being outside of time completely. Some things are spoken of in scripture in temporal terms, but are written from an eternal (non-temporal) perspective.

I will study this further.

My friend, I believe you will indeed study this further. That quality of spirit will lead you, and each of us, into the starfields of His glory. There is nothing time bound by the Restitution of all things. It lies in the Will of all wills. The outworking is in the fulness of times, described in Eph. 1 as the purpose He has cherished in His own mind of restoring the whole creation to find its one Head in Christ. This is to transpire "when the times are ripe for it" and are in stages of glory as enunciated in 1 Cor. 15 a Koine study you will find at the following....

http://www.christianforums.net/viewtopic.php?t=6360

"He has made known to us the secret of His will.

And this is in harmony with God's merciful purpose for the government of the world when the times are ripe for it--

the purpose which He has cherished in His own mind of restoring the whole creation to find its one Head in Christ; yes, things in heaven and things on earth, to find their one head in Him.

And you too, who in Him were made heirs, having been chosen beforehand in accordance with the intention of Him whose might carries out in everything the design of His own will."

[move]"Through the Son God made the whole universe, and to the Son he has ordained that all creation shall ultimately belong."[/move]