Universal Acceptance

[dlamberth]

I agree about the first 4, but not the rest (and even with the first 4, I only believe that the Prophet Muhammad was sent to all of mankind until the Day of Judgement). Anyway, my point was that there is no way to reconcile our religions (or to reconcile the Qur'aan with your beliefs).

But they can be reconciled while sitting in the presence of God. Religions have a way of dividing. God unites.

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[dlamberth]

Our most serious differences are about the Names & Attributes of Allaah (you believe that there can be human manifestations of the Attributes of God and we say that there is nothing like unto Allaah and to Him Alone belong all of His Names and Attributes).....

Two things, first, God is not separate and apart from this Creation, so through Him, human beings do manifest attributes of God. And, all we need to do is to look around at human beings and "see" the attributes of God with in us to know there's more to God manifesting in this world than what you say.

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[Rationalt]

seems bahaism has same characteristics you are objecting to.

 

[steve_bakr]

I've read some good stuff on Ibn Arabi's thought. He taught for one thing that people ought to be able to practice their own religion without attempts at converting them. He also taught that at higher states of spiritual awareness we begin to see the different religions as so many manifestations of the One. Each is capable of leading to the Summit of the One Absolute Truth: Al-Haqq.

Those who see their own religions as the exclusive path to God are still at a lower spiritual state. They still need to be right and others wrong. They may remain stuck but need to work on ascending the ladder of spiritual states.

 

[durangodawood]

Seems to me that claims of exclusivity in various ancient scriptures are something of an obvious sales gimmick.
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[AskTheFamily]

All false gods are God. All that is worshiped is God. It doesn't matter what idol we make to relate to God, it's God. That's because God is above all idols to the extent that every idol misses him but manifests enough of him when multiplied by infinity to be him. That is because God is One and is not of divisions.

If it wasn't for that, I don't think God would let us be divided. Every relative path of greatness is a path from him.

 

[light upon light]

seems bahaism has same characteristics you are objecting to.

?

 

[light upon light]

All false gods are God. All that is worshiped is God. It doesn't matter what idol we make to relate to God, it's God. That's because God is above all idols to the extent that every idol misses him but manifests enough of him when multiplied by infinity to be him. That is because God is One and is not of divisions.

If it wasn't for that, I don't think God would let us be divided. Every relative path of greatness is a path from him.

Pretty much.

 

[light upon light]

I've read some good stuff on Ibn Arabi's thought. He taught for one thing that people ought to be able to practice their own religion without attempts at converting them. He also taught that at higher states of spiritual awareness we begin to see the different religions as so many manifestations of the One. Each is capable of leading to the Summit of the One Absolute Truth: Al-Haqq.

Those who see their own religions as the exclusive path to God are still at a lower spiritual state. They still need to be right and others wrong. They may remain stuck but need to work on ascending the ladder of spiritual states.

I like the way Baha'u'llah puts it here:

"In sum, the differences in objects have now been made plain. Thus when the wayfarer gazeth only upon the place of appearance—that is, when he seeth only the many-colored globes—he beholdeth yellow and red and white; hence it is that conflict hath prevailed among the creatures, and a darksome dust from limited souls hath hid the world. And some do gaze upon the effulgence of the light; and some have drunk of the wine of oneness and these see nothing but the sun itself.

Thus, for that they move on these three differing planes, the understanding and the words of the wayfarers have differed; and hence the sign of conflict doth continually appear on earth. For some there are who dwell upon the plane of oneness and speak of that world, and some inhabit the realms of limitation, and some the grades of self, while others are completely veiled." - The Seven Valleys

 

[smaneck]

?

Please don't feed the trolls.

 

[smaneck]

All false gods are God. All that is worshiped is God. It doesn't matter what idol we make to relate to God, it's God.

Or perhaps it is more accurate to say that all of our conceptions of God are merely idols.
There is a story about a child who was busily occupied drawing a picture. Her mother asked her what she was doing "I'm drawing God," she answered. The mother said, "But honey, no one knows what God looks like." Unperturbed the child answered, "I will when I'm finished."
Right now she is guilty of nothing worse than naivete. She, like all of us, is continually in the process of creating an image of God. The problem, if it arise, comes in after she thinks she has completed her picture and now "knows" what God looks like. And even here this may not be such a big problem unless she becomes so attached to the image she has thus created that when God presents Himself, either in the form of what we Baha'is call a Manifestation, Jesus, Muhammad, Baha'u'llah or in some more subtle form, she fails to recognize Him.

 

[Rationalt]

?

:o

 

[Rationalt]

Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá'u'lláh, pages 279-285

essentially it is text of quran wrapped in some vagueness.

about disbeleievrs :They that have disbelieved in God and rebelled against His sovereignty are the helpless victims of their corrupt inclinations and desires. These shall return to their abode in the fire of hell: wretched is the abode of the deniers!

Who needs another religion for the same @#!#$

 

[AskTheFamily]

Or perhaps it is more accurate to say that all of our conceptions of God are merely idols.

True, none the less, these conceptions symbolize God enough, because he is one. Even if you have tyrant idol with extreme might, it returns to God, since ultimate might is God, and ultimate compassion and mercy is also ultimate might.

All his names are one. No one knows any of his names. Yet we all are his names.


It can be said no one truly knows anyone, because the unseen key/path towards God of each descent/idol is God himself, but on the way there is none-absolute infinities before absolute infinity. Since our path defines us, it can be said no one truly knows anyone but God himself.

 

[smaneck]

Who needs another religion for the same @#!#$

Looks to me like you are the best evidence of the accuracy of that verse.

 

[dlamberth]

Who needs another religion for the same @#!#$

Would another religion with different stuff work? The why for my believing new messengers of God keep popping up is because we have a way of taking new stuff and morphing it into the same old stuff. We need those messengers to help keep the spiritual juices going and alive to revitalize the hearts of people. It's a sort of awakening into that part of us that makes us human. Those messengers of God keep talking about things like Love, Compassion, Forgiveness and such. But we keep forgetting. And we need constant reminding. I agree, I don't want another religion with the same old stuff. I think humanity needs to keep moving forward towards a more loving and compassionate nature. And I'd like to see a new religion reflect more that ideal.


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[light upon light]

about disbeleievrs :They that have disbelieved in God and rebelled against His sovereignty are the helpless victims of their corrupt inclinations and desires. These shall return to their abode in the fire of hell: wretched is the abode of the deniers!

Who needs another religion for the same @#!#$

You need to define your terms here, what does Baha'u'llah mean by God, by disbelief, by hell-fire, and by corrupt inclinations.

We already know for starters that "hellfire" is not in any way literal, Baha'u'llah makes that crystal clear.

We also know that by "God" he is not in any way referring to a concept in the minds of men. According to Baha'u'llah, we can never know the essence of God, only the attributes of God - such as kindness, love, compassion, truth, knowledge and reality.

So, my personal interpretation of this passage is that any person who rejects truth, kindness, love, compassion, knowledge and reality as the guiding principles of their life is going to be buffeted around by the winds of their own whims! This doesn't mean my interpretation is correct, but I'm quite sure the literalist interpretation is wrong based on my life experience.

Basically, you are taking a fundamentalist view of the Baha'i scriptures and assuming it to be the correct view. However, Baha'u'llah has already stated that the literal interpretation is often dead wrong:

"It is evident unto thee that the Birds of Heaven and Doves of Eternity speak a twofold language. One language, the outward language, is devoid of allusions, is unconcealed and unveiled; that it may be a guiding lamp and a beaconing light whereby wayfarers may attain the heights of holiness, and seekers may advance into the realm of eternal reunion. Such are the unveiled traditions and the evident verses already mentioned. The other language is veiled and concealed, so that whatever lieth hidden in the heart of the malevolent may be made manifest and their innermost being be disclosed... In such utterances, the literal meaning, as generally understood by the people, is not what hath been intended. "

Of course, some Baha'is take a literalist view of passages such as the one you quotes. And in my view, they are utterly mistaken.

 

[light upon light]

And I'd like to see a new religion reflect more that ideal.

Religion, like any other human institution can be used for positive or negative effect. The complexity, poetry and symbolism of inspired religion is particularly powerful - but not always used for good!

"The comb, too, have I given thee that thou mayest dress My raven locks, and not lacerate My throat." - Baha'u'llah, Hidden Words

 

[Lukaris]

I cannot see how a Christian can embrace a concept of universal acceptance towards non Christian beliefs. It is clear that the Lord taught that there are universal virtues potentially shared by all people ( for ex. the Beatitudes) but also that "... all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God" ( Romans 3:23). Great care must be taken to understand that these concepts apply collectively to humanity & and to not judge our neighbor (Matthew 7:1-12). As Christians we have a commitment to evangelism even if it is just to pray for it (Matthew 9:36-38) & to pray for all people (1st Timothy 2:1). I do not assume my salvation nor that of my neighbor; Christians & non Christians can be saved or not but I cannot embrace universal acceptance.

As I have said, I understand that the Lord teaches universal virtues but not universalism. I mean no disrespect to non Christian beliefs but discernment is incumbent for Christians.

 

[dlamberth]

As I have said, I understand that the Lord teaches universal virtues but not universalism.

Somehow, for myself anyway, I'm not able to know Christ with out a universal reach. God is infinite which means that His very essence is universal. Knowing that is how I cross the reach in understanding God's universality. And it becomes even more apparent to me when I see God so alive and vibrant within others of other spiritual traditions.

I mean no disrespect to non Christian beliefs but discernment is incumbent for Christians.

Looking beyond Christians while including them, discernment is incumbent for all Lovers of God. That's been my experience.

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