Universal Acceptance

[light upon light]

Why does exclusivism get so much play?

Why do so many religious people, at least the loudest voices, talk about how their beliefs are right, and everyone else's are wrong?

It seems to me that one of the main barriers between many people and their acceptance some kind of religious practice is the savage and hostile way many religious people treat those of all other beliefs. It drives them away from the very idea of religion!

"O ye lovers of this wronged one! Cleanse ye your eyes, so that ye behold no man as different from yourselves. See ye no strangers; rather see all men as friends, for love and unity come hard when ye fix your gaze on otherness. And in this new and wondrous age, the Holy Writings say that we must be at one with every people..." - Abdu'l-Baha

 

[awitch]

Why do so many religious people, at least the loudest voices, talk about how their beliefs are right, and everyone else's are wrong?

Insecurity, personal agenda, political agenda, fund raising, fear of divine retribution, misunderstanding, jealousy...

It seems to me that one of the main barriers between many people and their acceptance some kind of religious practice is the savage and hostile way many religious people treat those of all other beliefs. It drives them away from the very idea of religion!

Most definitely. If people act like jerks and say it's because of their religion, then why would anyone else want to associate with that religion?

 

[cloudyday2]

I think in a world where religions compete the intolerant religions are more likely to survive and grow.

Take the example of a Catholic marrying a non-Catholic. Usually the Catholic in the marriage wants a Catholic ceremony. Then the Catholic priest requires an oath from the non-Catholic spouse that he/she will raise any future children to be Catholics. (Catholic members can correct me if my facts are wrong.) ... So the next generation is more likely to be Catholic than non-Catholic.

Another example: If I believe my religion is the only path to salvation/enlightenment then I'm more energized to donate money to missionaries, share the good news with friends, etc.

One more thought: Public group religious activities (even yacking on forums) help to strengthen faith in that religion. A member can look at the apparent faith of everybody else and feel reassured (even if those members are only pretending too). So a religion with exclusive beliefs will naturally seek to wipe-out all other religions to achieve the majority status required for its survival.

 

[light upon light]

Good points, both of you.

At the same time, this kind of belligerent attitude progressively sows the ground with salt. Religious bigotry and I'm right everyone else is wrong approaches discredit the entire religious enterprise and drive away many existing members of religions who find such attitudes indefensible and ignorant. They are also incompatible with proper functioning of the pluralist societies most people live in today. The mind of human beings rebels against the arbitrariness of exclusionism, and sees that people of many different types and styles of beliefs can and do have spiritual experiences, religious conversions, and undergo life-changing metanoia. Always interpreting reality to the favor of our own in-group and detriment of out-group members - we know at some level this is dishonest and deceitful and does not lead to an alignment with reality...

 

[cloudyday2]

This made me think of another question: If Baha'i is universally accepting of other religious beliefs, why doesn't the Baha'i minority in Iran simply join the majority and escape religious persecution? Those Baha'i must think Baha'i is significantly "better" than other religions. Maybe they feel converting to Islam would betray their ancestors? I'm curious if anybody has ideas on this question.

This brings up another factor: A person is more likely to resist religious assimilation if that person believes his/her religion is the "best".

 

[LoAmmi]

I'm ok with anybody doing what they want to do, but I certainly don't want to include all non-Jews into Judaism for the sake of universalism. If that makes me guilty of exclusivism, so be it. Even if I didn't believe the religion was true, I wouldn't want our unique culture and our unique voice to be assimilated onto the greater whole if for no other reason than it spits on our ancestors who fought and died to stay separate.

 

[gord44]

I'm ok with anybody doing what they want to do, but I certainly don't want to include all non-Jews into Judaism for the sake of universalism. If that makes me guilty of exclusivism, so be it. Even if I didn't believe the religion was true, I wouldn't want our unique culture and our unique voice to be assimilated onto the greater whole if for no other reason than it spits on our ancestors who fought and died to stay separate.

LoAmmi makes a good point.

Experiences and history also come into play. LoAmmi has mentioned before about the Jews survival through the ages being good proof that the Jews are God's chosen people. While many people have exclusive experiences that convince them that their religion is correct.

I for one don't really see the value in belittling others beliefs though.

 

[light upon light]

Even if I didn't believe the religion was true, I wouldn't want our unique culture and our unique voice to be assimilated onto the greater whole if for no other reason than it spits on our ancestors who fought and died to stay separate.

I believe your religion is true, and I would never wish your unique culture and voice to be lost either.

I think it is possible, and desirable, for people of religion to end the sense of hostility to one another, without ending their own individual, distinct faith practices and traditions.

 

[LoAmmi]

I for one don't really see the value in belittling others beliefs though.

I have no interest in doing that (generally). I will debate people but I enjoy that most of the time and I think it's good to see ideas bounce against each other.

 

[Supreme]

I would never belittle others beliefs. But it's very clear in the Bible that Jesus Christ is the only way to the Father. Rejecting Him is rejecting God, but Jesus is God incarnate and His sacrifice was God's way of reconciliation with man- now it's mans turn.

I know it's not politically correct to say 'my religion is the only right one'. But I believe it's the truth. Other religions have great and commendable aspects to them, and I respect them, but my beliefs are that they are not the way to God.

 

[gord44]

I have no interest in doing that (generally). I will debate people but I enjoy that most of the time and I think it's good to see ideas bounce against each other.

I didn't mean that you belittled others. Not sure if I came across like i was saying that.

 

[LoveBeingAMuslimah]

Why does exclusivism get so much play?

Because not every religion can be right. Take my religion and your religion, for instance. Belief in your religion entails the belief that people can be "manifestations of God," Jesus (peace be upon him) was crucified, there can be a religion after Islaam even though Allaah said that it has been perfected and the Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) is the seal of the Prophets, and there is a lack of a real and literal Hell the way it was unambiguously described in the Qur'aan, etc. My religion is against all of that. There is no way we can both be right.

The most important Words of all are the Words of God and He said:

Do they seek other than the religion of Allaah, while to Him submitted all creatures in the heavens and the earth, willingly or unwillingly. And to Him shall they all be returned. (Aali Imran 3:83)

"And verily, this is my Straight Path, so follow it, and follow not (other) paths, for they will separate you away from His Path. This He has ordained for you that you may become Al-Muttaqûn (the pious - see V.2:2)." (Al-An'am 6:153)

Who are we to say other religions can be correct when we're told this by the One Who created us Himself?

 

[light upon light]

But it's very clear in the Bible that Jesus Christ is the only way to the Father.

I assume you are referring to:

"I AM the way, the truth and the life, no one cometh unto the Father but by me"?

I interpret that to say that the "I AM", who spoke through the burning bush to Moses, who spoke through Christ, speaks to humanity and whose voice is the voice of God.

But Jesus Himself said "Other sheep I have who are not of this fold, and they shall hear my voice". I call that the voice of the "I AM", which speaks through Jesus of Nazareth but not only Him.

Could not those other "folds" be Buddhists, and Hindus, and Muslims and followers of Deganawida and Quetzalcoatl, and the people who shall "hear my voice" - that is - the voice of the "I AM" - be the disciples of those Great Teachers?

 

[light upon light]

Because not every religion can be right.

I see Abraham, Moses, Jesus, Muhammad, the Buddha, Deganawida, Quetzalcoatl and many others as being lights of guidance to humanity.

As for their followers in the hundreds and thousands of years since their message was called out to humanity - many of the followers have fallen into evident error.

 

[LoAmmi]

I suppose another problem for me is accepting what the other faiths related to mine have to say about the Messiah or G-d coming down in human skin. I don't believe Messiah has come yet and don't believe that He would come down in human skin. It's a pretty big hurdle.

 

[cloudyday2]

I suppose another problem for me is accepting what the other faiths related to mine have to say about the Messiah or G-d coming down in human skin. I don't believe Messiah has come yet and don't believe that He would come down in human skin. It's a pretty big hurdle.

For some reason I thought the Messiah of Judaism was supposed to be a human leader like Simon Bar Kokhba. So what is the modern Jewish view?

 

[light upon light]

For some reason I thought the Messiah of Judaism was supposed to be a human leader like Simon Bar Kokhba. So what is the modern Jewish view?

I think LoAmmi is denying that God incarnates Himself (Jesus Himself said "God is a spirit and must be worshiped in spirit and truth). Muslims and Baha'is would be greatly sympathetic regarding this POV.

I think we have to distinguish the fallible human interpretations of Jesus, codified in the concepts and understandings of 325 AD as the Trinity and the Incarnation, from what Jesus Himself said about His own nature.

 

[dlamberth]

I'm ok with anybody doing what they want to do, but I certainly don't want to include all non-Jews into Judaism for the sake of universalism. If that makes me guilty of exclusivism, so be it.

I don't look at exclusivism from that angle. I see it as beliefs in One True Way to God.

We see examples quite often where people get almost out of hand in their aggressiveness proclaiming their way is the One True Way to God. I've had to deal with it very directly myself with my brother-in-laws. They even made sure that my wife knew that she is going to Hell because she married me, whom they labeled a "heathen".

Being inclusive on the other hand, from my perspective, is not about religious beliefs. It's seeing God in all human beings, regardless of their religious beliefs. And it's where every human being is seen as child of God and honored sacredly as such.

.

 

[light upon light]

Being inclusive on the other hand, from my perspective, is not about religious beliefs. It's seeing God in all human beings, regardless of their religious beliefs. And it's where every human being is seen as child of God and honored sacredly as such.

It is true that our goal and purpose is to see God in all human beings. And it is true that our beliefs are not directly related to seeing God in everyone. However, there is a relationship between our intellectual beliefs and our spiritual perceptions.

As we see God in others, we become less able to believe in exclusivist views. And as we embrace inclusive beliefs, we become more open to seeing God in others.

But certainly there is a vast gulf between mere belief, and actually realizing and seeing the divine in other people!

 

[light upon light]

I believe that it is critical for religious people to develop their beliefs to become more inclusive and less hostile to those of other faiths.

The world cannot afford religious hatred and bigotry any longer. And simply isn't necessary. The founders of the world's great religions did not teach that kind of intolerance. Think of Jesus and the parable of the good Samaritan.