Unity.

SummerMadness · Jan 23, 2021

Hammster said:
I didn’t say that you had to. I just said that it would bring unity. That’s what the thread is about.

This thread is in the American Politics section, if you are not talking about unity with respect to American Politics, then this thread is in the wrong section and needs to be moved. When you say there can only be unity under a specific religion, it goes against the very premise of American democracy, you go against the freedom even most conservatives support, which is religious freedom. I guess the real question is do you accept unity in a system where everyone is free to worship or not worship as they please? Saying that you can only have unity if everyone follows your religious faith is the antithesis to unity as you do not allow for disagreement from your own orthodoxy.

Halbhh · Jan 23, 2021

natitude said:
There are some crimes that are so heinous that only the death penalty is the appropriate response.

Indeed, many! This is why Christ came to save us, because we are all guilty.

But even for 'capital crimes' by human standards, human justice is very flawed in reality.

The problem is that human beings too often make mistakes in judging who is actually guilty!

Often! Not just a few times, or just 20 times. Hundreds and hundreds of times, even for current convicts!

To date, 375 people in the United States have been exonerated by DNA testing, including 21 who served time on death row. These people served an average of 14 years in prison before exoneration and release.
Exonerate - Innocence Project.

Imagine if you had been the person that executed an innocent convict, that was not guilty, and then you found out what you had done!

natitude · Jan 23, 2021

KCfromNC said:
Perhaps by, say, tripling welfare payments to poor mothers, federally mandated 1 year family leave, and universal health care? Seems like the now minority GOP won't go for that sort of unity.

I guaranty that if such programs were put in place the Left would not budge on its insistence of abortion on demand. The Left basically wants to remove any and all consequences of sexual intercourse.

And I don't know the answer to these two questions, but let me ask: How many women seeking an abortion are doing so only because certain federal safety nets aren't in place? And would their attitudes be any different if private sector safety nets were in place?

driewerf · Jan 23, 2021

Hammster said:
Yes, I believe the truth.

No, this is what you believe to be the truth.

Speedwell · Jan 23, 2021

natitude said:
I guaranty that if such programs were put in place the Left would not budge on its insistence of abortion on demand. The Left basically wants to remove any and all consequences of sexual intercourse.

Which is why the credibility of the pro-life movement suffers when they talk about "murdered babies." BTW, "on demand" means it's a personal, medical decision on the part of the woman and her medical advisor without judicial intervention. This is particularly important in late term abortions, which are almost always the result of a dangerous medical crisis which nobody wants a Judge Roy Moore poking his nose into. Nor do such abortions always result in the death of the fetus--destruction of viable fetus is illegal in 42 states--no thanks to pro-lifers. I would like to see such a restriction in all fifty, though it is in all cases against medical ethics.

And I don't know the answer to these two questions, but let me ask: How many women seeking an abortion are doing so only because certain federal safety nets aren't in place? And would their attitudes be any different if private sector safety nets were in place?

There are reliable statistics, if you're really interested, but I suspect you don't want to relinquish your notion that all abortions are the recourse of wanton libertines too lazy to use birth control

Hammster · Jan 23, 2021

super animator said:
I find these line of questioning to be disingenuous here, as you never ask the same line of questions to yourself, and just assert that it is true.

My is the revealed word of God in scripture. I don’t avoid the questions.

Hammster · Jan 23, 2021

Speedwell said:
So abortion isn't always murder, which was my point.

Sometimes it’s attempted murder.

Hammster · Jan 23, 2021

durangodawood said:
There are values upon which we differ. We can skip those for the purpose of unifying.

But there are even more that we naturally share. Right/wrong is irrelevant for values that are natural (or God given) to the human being. Having these values is simply a fact about us.

How do you determine right from wrong? What grounds your morality?

Speedwell · Jan 23, 2021

Hammster said:
My is the revealed word of God in scripture. I don’t avoid the questions.

But you never question your interpretation of scripture.

Hammster · Jan 23, 2021

SummerMadness said:
This thread is in the American Politics section, if you are not talking about unity with respect to American Politics, then this thread is in the wrong section and needs to be moved. When you say there can only be unity under a specific religion, it goes against the very premise of American democracy, you go against the freedom even most conservatives support, which is religious freedom. I guess the real question is do you accept unity in a system where everyone is free to worship or not worship as they please? Saying that you can only have unity if everyone follows your religious faith is the antithesis to unity as you do not allow for disagreement from your own orthodoxy.

You’ve missed the point. Everyone can say what they think unity means. I’m just doing the same.

Hammster · Jan 23, 2021

driewerf said:
No, this is what you believe to be the truth.

What do you believe truth is?

Hammster · Jan 23, 2021

Speedwell said:
But you never question your interpretation of scripture.

How do you know that?

durangodawood · Jan 23, 2021

Hammster said:
How do you determine right from wrong? What grounds your morality?

At the risk of departing from your OP topic...

Right/wrong are what either promotes or obstructs the values that are natural (or God given - if you so believe) to human beings.

Speedwell · Jan 23, 2021

Hammster said:
How do you know that?

I've certainly never seen any indication of it, and you assert it as the only true interpretation.

natitude · Jan 23, 2021

Speedwell said:
There are reliable statistics, if you're really interested

Please provide statistics regarding the number of abortions that would change with greater government safety nets, and with greater privately funded safety nets.

Speedwell said:
but I suspect you don't want to relinquish your notion that all abortions are the recourse of wanton libertines too lazy to use birth control

I already responded to you here with my position.

pitabread · Jan 23, 2021

Hammster said:
I’m talking about actual believers in Christ, not just church goers.

And the No true Scotman fallacy rears its head...

durangodawood · Jan 23, 2021

Hammster said:
You’ve missed the point. Everyone can say what they think unity means. I’m just doing the same.

Yeah anyone can say whatever they want.

But is it defensible in the context of American Politics?

Or is this just a pointless nonsense exercise?

Hammster · Jan 23, 2021

durangodawood said:
At the risk of departing from your OP topic...

Right/wrong are what either promotes or obstructs the values that are natural (or God given - if you so believe) to human beings.

How do you determine what those values are?

Hammster · Jan 23, 2021

Speedwell said:
I've certainly never seen any indication of it, and you assert it as the only true interpretation.

So you don’t know.

Hammster · Jan 23, 2021

pitabread said:
And the No true Scotman fallacy rears its head...

Not really.

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