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UNITY OF GOD's PEOPLE

msortwell

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During the kingdome reigh of Christ on earth Zecharriah 8:23 tells us: "Thur ssaith the Lod of hosts: In those days it sall com to pass, that ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the nations, even take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We go with you; for we heard that God is with you."

So - just to make sure I am understanding you - you see this prophecy as foretelling of a unity that will occur, consistent with our Lord's petition recorded in John 17. Is this an essential unity that will survive throughout eternity or is it temporal having been FULLY consummated during an earthly thousand year reign of Christ?

Blessings
 
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Dispy

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Dispy said:
During the kingdom reigh of Christ on earth Zecharriah 8:23 tells us: "Thus saith the Lod of hosts: In those days it sall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the nations, even take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We go with you; for we heard that God is with you."


So - just to make sure I am understanding you - you see this prophecy as foretelling of a unity that will occur, consistent with our Lord's petition recorded in John 17. Is this an essential unity that will survive throughout eternity or is it temporal having been FULLY consummated during an earthly thousand year reign of Christ?

Blessings

In the Lord's prayer in John 17 it indicates to me that He is praying for those of Israel that believe in Him, and those future believers of Israel.

All we know, at that time in human history, Jesus came only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. Keep that in mind.
 
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Dispy said:
During the kingdom reigh of Christ on earth Zecharriah 8:23 tells us: "Thus saith the Lod of hosts: In those days it sall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the nations, even take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We go with you; for we heard that God is with you."




In the Lord's prayer in John 17 it indicates to me that He is praying for those of Israel that believe in Him, and those future believers of Israel.

All we know, at that time in human history, Jesus came only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. Keep that in mind.

Yet as King yet they denied thus He did not take the throne yet ... but His inheritance is the church for dying on the cross ... and in all his all knowingness He was already in transition from law to church the night before the cross
eph 1:18
 
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Dispy

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BigD said:
During the kingdom reigh of Christ on earth Zecharriah 8:23 tells us: "Thus saith the Lod of hosts: In those days it sall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the nations, even take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We go with you; for we heard that God is with you."


In the Lord's prayer in John 17 it indicates to me that He is praying for those of Israel that believe in Him, and those future believers of Israel.

All we know, at that time in human history, Jesus came only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. Keep that in mind.

Yet as King yet they denied thus He did not take the throne yet ... but His inheritance is the church for dying on the cross ... and in all his all knowingness He was already in transition from law to church the night before the cross
eph 1:18

Explain to me what you said. I don't understand it.
 
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Dispy said:
During the kingdom reigh of Christ on earth Zecharriah 8:23 tells us: "Thus saith the Lod of hosts: In those days it sall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the nations, even take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We go with you; for we heard that God is with you."




In the Lord's prayer in John 17 it indicates to me that He is praying for those of Israel that believe in Him, and those future believers of Israel.

All we know, at that time in human history, Jesus came only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. Keep that in mind.

Yet as JC as King they denied one week after acknowledgement of the palm branches {Matt 21:1-11} thus He did not take the throne yet since they denied Him thus making the scripture [ Daniel 9:3-19, 2 chr 7:14 ] stand out and realize that He is their God ... but His inheritance is the church [eph 1:18]for dying on the cross as Israel is the Father's Bride ... and in all his all knowingness He was already in transition from law to church the night before the cross jn 17:21, connects with 1 cor 12:12-31 which the unity is by the spirit but when one is focus on their flesh? they fight among themselves !

did this do for ya?
 
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Dispy said:
During the kingdom reign of Christ on earth Zechariah 8:23 tells us: "Thus saith the Lord of hosts: In those days it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the nations, even take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We go with you; for we heard that God is with you."

In the Lord's prayer in John 17 it indicates to me that He is praying for those of Israel that believe in Him, and those future believers of Israel.

All we know, at that time in human history, Jesus came only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. Keep that in mind.

Yet as JC as King they denied one week after acknowledgement of the palm branches {Matt 21:1-11} thus He did not take the throne yet since they denied Him thus making the scripture [ Daniel 9:3-19, 2 chr 7:14 ] stand out and realize that He is their God ... but His inheritance is the church [eph 1:18]for dying on the cross as Israel is the Father's Bride ... and in all his all knowingness He was already in transition from law to church the night before the cross jn 17:21, connects with 1 cor 12:12-31 which the unity is by the spirit but when one is focus on their flesh? they fight among themselves !

did this do for ya?

OK. I do believe that Israel is the Bride of Christ. I do believe that you are mixing "prophesy" as it pertains to the nation of Israel, and "the mystery" that was kept secret "...since the world began" (Rom. 16:26) until revealed to the Apostle Paul by Christ from His position in heaven.

We know that two things must happen prior to the kingdom can be established upon the earth.

1. Jesus must suffer the many things if Isaiah 53.

2. Israel must endured the 70th week of Daniel 9, i.e. the Tribulation.

Jesus Himself said in Luke 17:25 (speaking of Himself) "But first must he suffer many things, and be rejected by this (then present) generation." This happened when they crucified Him.

Too many people believe that the Church, the Body of Christ, began at Pentecost in Acts 2. I don't believe that.

I believe that in Acts 2 it was the Tribulation that started. Peter in Acts 2:16-20 is saying that what was happening was "the LAST DAYS". He is quoting Joel 2:28-32. Joel is speaking of the events of Daniel 9, i.e. the Tribulation.

Now we know that prior to Jesus returning to heaven He opened up the understanding of all the OT Scriptures to His disciples (cf. Luk. 24:45), so Peter knew exactly where is stood in the time line of prophecy. After all, the disciples were speaking "...as the Spirit gave them utterance" (cf. Acts 2:4). (Peter was not in left field looking for a hockey puck.)

In Acts 3 we find Peter accusing the crowd of the murder of Jesus in Acts 3:12-18. In 3:19-21 he tells them what they must do in order for Jesus to return.

Had not the Tribulation have started in Acts 2, then Peter would not be able to say what he did in Acts 3:19-21.

Because Israel, as a nation, did not repent of the murder of Jesus, God interrupted the Tribulation, and all the OT promises to Israel, raised up Saul/Paul to usher in this present dispensation of Grace.

This dispensation of Grace will end with the rapture of the Church, the Body of Christ, to heaven.

Then God will again deal with Israel as His special/favorite people, resume the Tribulation and OT prophesies pertaining to Israel at the point that they were interrupted.
 
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Too many people believe that the Church, the Body of Christ, began at Pentecost in Acts 2. I don't believe that.

I believe that in Acts 2 it was the Tribulation that started. Peter in Acts 2:16-20 is saying that what was happening was "the LAST DAYS". He is quoting Joel 2:28-32. Joel is speaking of the events of Daniel 9, i.e. the Tribulation.
Joel 2:28 And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:
Joel 2:29 And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.
joel 2:30 And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke.
joel 2:31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.
joel 2:32 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call.
Now compare to scripture to scripture...

Acts 2:16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
acts 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
acts 2:18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:
acts 2:19 And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:
acts 2:20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come:

I see in the small context why you see it like this ... but notice in acts 1:15
And in those days Peter stood up in the midst of the disciples, and said, (the number of names together were about an hundred and twenty,)

if only 120 and not all flesh this would make it as a similar work of the Holy Spirit but a different event just like Joel prophesied

another part one must look at is ... did they prophesy and see visions or did they speak in tongues which was not listed in Joel some thing to think about




Now we know that prior to Jesus returning to heaven He opened up the understanding of all the OT Scriptures to His disciples (cf. Luk. 24:45), so Peter knew exactly where is stood in the time line of prophecy. After all, the disciples were speaking "...as the Spirit gave them utterance" (cf. Acts 2:4). (Peter was not in left field looking for a hockey puck.)

In Acts 3 we find Peter accusing the crowd of the murder of Jesus in Acts 3:12-18. In 3:19-21 he tells them what they must do in order for Jesus to return.

Had not the Tribulation have started in Acts 2, then Peter would not be able to say what he did in Acts 3:19-21.
by this deduction the tribulation started in Daniel or another prophet ......my favorite verse on signs about the Kingdom

Ezek 47:8 Then said he unto me, These waters issue out toward the east country, and go down into the desert, and go into the sea: which being brought forth into the sea, the waters shall be healed. 9 And it shall come to pass, that every thing that liveth, which moveth, whithersoever the rivers shall come, shall live: and there shall be a very great multitude of fish, because these waters shall come thither: for they shall be healed; and every thing shall live whither the river cometh.

if we where in the Kingdom of a 1000 yrs the dead Sea would be healed
Because Israel, as a nation, did not repent of the murder of Jesus, God interrupted the Tribulation, and all the OT promises to Israel, raised up Saul/Paul to usher in this present dispensation of Grace.

This dispensation of Grace will end with the rapture of the Church, the Body of Christ, to heaven.

Then God will again deal with Israel as His special/favorite people, resume the Tribulation and OT prophesies pertaining to Israel at the point that they were interrupted.

looking forward to continue are conversation
 
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Dispy

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BigD said:
Too many people believe that the Church, the Body of Christ, began at Pentecost in Acts 2. I don't believe that.

I believe that in Acts 2 it was the Tribulation that started. Peter in Acts 2:16-20 is saying that what was happening was "the LAST DAYS". He is quoting Joel 2:28-32. Joel is speaking of the events of Daniel 9, i.e. the Tribulation.

Bro in Christ said:
Joel 2:28 And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:
Joel 2:29 And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.
joel 2:30 And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke.
joel 2:31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.
joel 2:32 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call.
Now compare to scripture to scripture...

Acts 2:16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
acts 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
acts 2:18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:
acts 2:19 And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:
acts 2:20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come:

I see in the small context why you see it like this ... but notice in acts 1:15
And in those days Peter stood up in the midst of the disciples, and said, (the number of names together were about an hundred and twenty,)

if only 120 and not all flesh this would make it as a similar work of the Holy Spirit but a different event just like Joel prophesied

another part one must look at is ... did they prophesy and see visions or did they speak in tongues which was not listed in Joel some thing to think about'

Peter is not quoting Joel 2:32 did not quote Joel 2:32. I do believe "the remnant" mentioned is the sealed 144,000 mentioned in Rev. 7:4. I could be wrong.

Peter in Acts 1:15 addressing those that were in the upper room when they Matthias was appointed to replace Judas. It has nothing to do with the infilling of the Holy Ghost. The chosing of Metthias has nothing to do with the Holy Spirit's endowment.

Peter in Acts 2:15-20 is saying the the Tribulation signs were beginning to appear. In the first 3 1/2 years of the Tribulation things will be quite normal. It is the last 3 1/2 hear that is known as "the great tribulation".

BigD said:
Now we know that prior to Jesus returning to heaven He opened up the understanding of all the OT Scriptures to His disciples (cf. Luk. 24:45), so Peter knew exactly where is stood in the time line of prophecy. After all, the disciples were speaking "...as the Spirit gave them utterance" (cf. Acts 2:4). (Peter was not in left field looking for a hockey puck.)

In Acts 3 we find Peter accusing the crowd of the murder of Jesus in Acts 3:12-18. In 3:19-21 he tells them what they must do in order for Jesus to return.

Had not the Tribulation have started in Acts 2, then Peter would not be able to say what he did in Acts 3:19-21.
Ezek. 47: 8-9

Bro in Christ said:
by this deduction the tribulation started in Daniel or another prophet ......my favorite verse on signs about the Kingdom .

I don't how you think that the tribulation started by Daniel or another prophet.[/QUOTE]

Bro in Christ said:
......my favorite verse on signs about the Kingdom
Ezek 47:8 Then said he unto me, These waters issue out toward the east country, and go down into the desert, and go into the sea: which being brought forth into the sea, the waters shall be healed. 9 And it shall come to pass, that every thing that liveth, which moveth, whithersoever the rivers shall come, shall live: and there shall be a very great multitude of fish, because these waters shall come thither: for they shall be healed; and every thing shall live whither the river cometh.

if we where in the Kingdom of a 1000 yrs the dead Sea would be healed.

This will be fulfilled in Rev. 22:

BigD said:
Because Israel, as a nation, did not repent of the murder of Jesus, God interrupted the Tribulation, and all the OT promises to Israel, raised up Saul/Paul to usher in this present dispensation of Grace.

This dispensation of Grace will end with the rapture of the Church, the Body of Christ, to heaven.

Then God will again deal with Israel as His special/favorite people, resume the Tribulation and OT prophesies pertaining to Israel at the point that they were interrupted.

Bro in Christ said:
looking forward to continue are conversation.

I would like to thank you for your civil reply, and look forward to continued conversation.
 
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Originally Posted by BigD
Too many people believe that the Church, the Body of Christ, began at Pentecost in Acts 2. I don't believe that.

I believe that in Acts 2 it was the Tribulation that started. Peter in Acts 2:16-20 is saying that what was happening was "the LAST DAYS". He is quoting Joel 2:28-32. Joel is speaking of the events of Daniel 9, i.e. the Tribulation.
Originally Posted by Bro in Christ
Joel 2:28 And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:
Joel 2:29 And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.
joel 2:30 And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke.
joel 2:31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.
joel 2:32 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call.
Now compare to scripture to scripture...

Acts 2:16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
acts 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
acts 2:18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:
acts 2:19 And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:
acts 2:20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come:

I see in the small context why you see it like this ... but notice in acts 1:15
And in those days Peter stood up in the midst of the disciples, and said, (the number of names together were about an hundred and twenty,)

if only 120 and not all flesh this would make it as a similar work of the Holy Spirit but a different event just like Joel prophesied

another part one must look at is ... did they prophesy and see visions or did they speak in tongues which was not listed in Joel some thing to think about'

Peter is not quoting Joel 2:32 did not quote Joel 2:32. I do believe "the remnant" mentioned is the sealed 144,000 mentioned in Rev. 7:4. I could be wrong.


Is the church in heaven like rev 4 states and the 144,000 are sealed after we have been taken to the third heaven Rev 5 also... 144,000 are not sealed till rev 7:3-8 on earth which is before the 1st seal is open in rev 6:1 and Yes revelations is not completely in Order .... besides Pentecost was 50 days from his death and resurrection at about 33 ad .... revelations was written in 95 ad ... and then when Daniel 70th week /The Lords Day / The Great Tribulation all are 7 years long

Peter in Acts 1:15 addressing those that were in the upper room when they Matthias was appointed to replace Judas. It has nothing to do with the infilling of the Holy Ghost. The chosing of Metthias has nothing to do with the Holy Spirit's endowment.

Peter in Acts 2:15-20 is saying the the Tribulation signs were beginning to appear. In the first 3 1/2 years of the Tribulation things will be quite normal. It is the last 3 1/2 hear that is known as "the great tribulation".

Greek word in acts 2:16 But this is [Like] what was spoken by the prophet Joel .... same spirit different work

visions and prophesy vs tongues

120 people with the 12 disciples 1:15- 26 Acts 2:14

acts 2:41 300 baptized added to the body of Christ!


Originally Posted by BigD
Now we know that prior to Jesus returning to heaven He opened up the understanding of all the OT Scriptures to His disciples (cf. Luk. 24:45), so Peter knew exactly where is stood in the time line of prophecy. After all, the disciples were speaking "...as the Spirit gave them utterance" (cf. Acts 2:4). (Peter was not in left field looking for a hockey puck.)

In Acts 3 we find Peter accusing the crowd of the murder of Jesus in Acts 3:12-18. In 3:19-21 he tells them what they must do in order for Jesus to return.


Yet because they have been Romans 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.


Mal 3:7 Even from the days of your fathers ye are gone away from mine ordinances, and have not kept them. Return unto me, and I will return unto you, saith the LORD of hosts. But ye said, Wherein shall we return?


Zech 12:10-14 .. connects to Matt 24:30

Isa 29:9-16, 2 cor 3:14-16 , started blindness Luke 19:41-44 70 ad , Isa 10:20-23 , Isa 6:9-13 , Luke 21:24 Jerusalem will be trampled by gentiles until the times of the gentiles are fulfilled .... 1 cor 10:32 3 group of saints Gentiles ,Jews, Church of God!

the fullness of the gentile is a different group than ephesians Fullness of thee Christ both are saved but different

Had not the Tribulation have started in Acts 2, then Peter would not be able to say what he did in Acts 3:19-21.
Ezek. 47: 8-9


Originally Posted by Bro in Christ
by this deduction the tribulation started in Daniel or another prophet ......my favorite verse on signs about the Kingdom .
I don't how you think that the tribulation started by Daniel or another prophet.[/quote]
I do not but I do not now where you get this from?

Originally Posted by Bro in Christ
......my favorite verse on signs about the Kingdom
Ezek 47:8 Then said he unto me, These waters issue out toward the east country, and go down into the desert, and go into the sea: which being brought forth into the sea, the waters shall be healed. 9 And it shall come to pass, that every thing that liveth, which moveth, whithersoever the rivers shall come, shall live: and there shall be a very great multitude of fish, because these waters shall come thither: for they shall be healed; and every thing shall live whither the river cometh.

if we where in the Kingdom of a 1000 yrs the dead Sea would be healed.
This will be fulfilled in Rev. 22:


Originally Posted by BigD
Because Israel, as a nation, did not repent of the murder of Jesus, God interrupted the Tribulation, and all the OT promises to Israel, raised up Saul/Paul to usher in this present dispensation of Grace.

This dispensation of Grace will end with the rapture of the Church, the Body of Christ, to heaven.

Then God will again deal with Israel as His special/favorite people, resume the Tribulation and OT prophesies pertaining to Israel at the point that they were interrupted.
Originally Posted by Bro in Christ
looking forward to continue are conversation.
I would like to thank you for your civil reply, and look forward to continued conversation.


luv bible
 
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Dispy

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QUOTE=BigD]Too many people believe that the Church, the Body of Christ, began at Pentecost in Acts 2. I don't believe that.

I believe that in Acts 2 it was the Tribulation that started. Peter in Acts 2:16-20 is saying that what was happening was "the LAST DAYS". He is quoting Joel 2:28-32. Joel is speaking of the events of Daniel 9, i.e. the Tribulation.[/QUOTE]

Bro in Christ said:
Joel 2:28 And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:
Joel 2:29 And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.
joel 2:30 And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke.
joel 2:31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.
joel 2:32 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call.
Now compare to scripture to scripture...

Acts 2:16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
acts 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
acts 2:18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:
acts 2:19 And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:
acts 2:20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come:

I see in the small context why you see it like this ... but notice in acts 1:15
And in those days Peter stood up in the midst of the disciples, and said, (the number of names together were about an hundred and twenty,)

if only 120 and not all flesh this would make it as a similar work of the Holy Spirit but a different event just like Joel prophesied
another part one must look at is ... did they prophesy and see visions or did they speak in tongues which was not listed in Joel some thing to think about'

BigD said:
Peter is not quoting Joel 2:32 did not quote Joel 2:32. I do believe "the remnant" mentioned is the sealed 144,000 mentioned in Rev. 7:4. I could be wrong.

We have gone over this before.


Bro in Christ said:
Is the church in heaven like rev 4 states and the 144,000 are sealed after we have been taken to the third heaven Rev 5 also... 144,000 are not sealed till rev 7:3-8 on earth which is before the 1st seal is open in rev 6:1 and Yes revelations is not completely in Order .... besides Pentecost was 50 days from his death and resurrection at about 33 ad .... revelations was written in 95 ad ... and then when Daniel 70th week /The Lords Day / The Great Tribulation all are 7 years long

After the Church, the Body of Christ is raptured to heaven, then the 144,000 Israelites will minister on the earth during the Tribulation.

BigD said:
Peter in Acts 1:15 addressing those that were in the upper room when they Matthias was appointed to replace Judas. It has nothing to do with the infilling of the Holy Ghost. The chosing of Metthias has nothing to do with the Holy Spirit's endowment.

Peter in Acts 2:15-20 is saying the the Tribulation signs were beginning to appear. In the first 3 1/2 years of the Tribulation things will be quite normal. It is the last 3 1/2 hear that is known as "the great tribulation".

Bro in Christ said:
Greek word in acts 2:16 But this is [Like] what was spoken by the prophet Joel .... same spirit different work visions and prophesy vs tongues

120 people with the 12 disciples 1:15- 26 Acts 2:14

acts 2:41 300 baptized added to the body of Christ!

The 3000 baptized were baptized into the Jewish kingdom Church.

The Church, the Body of Christ has not yet been formed. It is still future revelation to the Apostle. The 3000 that were baptized were baptized into the Jewish kingdom Church.

BigD said:
Now we know that prior to Jesus returning to heaven He opened up the understanding of all the OT Scriptures to His disciples (cf. Luk. 24:45), so Peter knew exactly where is stood in the time line of prophecy. After all, the disciples were speaking "...as the Spirit gave them utterance" (cf. Acts 2:4). (Peter was not in left field looking for a hockey puck.)

In Acts 3 we find Peter accusing the crowd of the murder of Jesus in Acts 3:12-18. In 3:19-21 he tells them what they must do in order for Jesus to return.

Bro in Christ said:
Yet because they have been Romans 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

Mal 3:7 Even from the days of your fathers ye are gone away from mine ordinances, and have not kept them. Return unto me, and I will return unto you, saith the LORD of hosts. But ye said, Wherein shall we return?

Zech 12:10-14 .. connects to Matt 24:30

Isa 29:9-16, 2 cor 3:14-16 , started blindness Luke 19:41-44 70 ad , Isa 10:20-23 , Isa 6:9-13 , Luke 21:24 Jerusalem will be trampled by gentiles until the times of the gentiles are fulfilled .... 1 cor 10:32 3 group of saints Gentiles ,Jews, Church of God!

the fullness of the gentile is a different group than ephesians Fullness of thee Christ both are saved but different

How can you justify reading furure revelations to Paul into the Gospels or the OT?

BigD said:
Had not the Tribulation have started in Acts 2, then Peter would not be able to say what he did in Acts 3:19-21.

Bro in Christ said:
by this deduction the tribulation started in Daniel or another prophet ......my favorite verse on signs about the Kingdom . Ezek. 47: 8-9

BigD said:
I don't know how you think that the tribulation started by Daniel or another prophet.

Bro in Christ said:
I do not but I do not now where you get this from?

Bro in Christ said:
......my favorite verse on signs about the Kingdom
Ezek 47:8 Then said he unto me, These waters issue out toward the east country, and go down into the desert, and go into the sea: which being brought forth into the sea, the waters shall be healed. 9 And it shall come to pass, that every thing that liveth, which moveth, whithersoever the rivers shall come, shall live: and there shall be a very great multitude of fish, because these waters shall come thither: for they shall be healed; and every thing shall live whither the river cometh.

if we where in the Kingdom of a 1000 yrs the dead Sea would be healed.

BigD said:
This will be fulfilled in Rev. 22:

BigD said:
Because Israel, as a nation, did not repent of the murder of Jesus, God interrupted the Tribulation, and all the OT promises to Israel, raised up Saul/Paul to usher in this present dispensation of Grace.

This dispensation of Grace will end with the rapture of the Church, the Body of Christ, to heaven.

Then God will again deal with Israel as His special/favorite people, resume the Tribulation and OT prophesies pertaining to Israel at the point that they were interrupted.

[lQUOTE=Bro in Christ]looking forward to continue are conversation.[/QUOTE]

BigD said:
I would like to thank you for your civil reply, and look forward to continued conversation.

Its hard for me to make heads or tails in what you post. Simplify it.
 
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Go and read the verses... From the bible

Pauline 12 Mysterys is something that god hid from the Jews prior to Paul sometime in plain sight so that when he takes away the blindness ... They say my God Lord save us in the middle of the second coming
 
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Go and read the verses... From the bible

Pauline 12 Mysterys is something that god hid from the Jews prior to Paul sometime in plain sight so that when he takes away the blindness ... They say my God Lord save us in the middle of the second coming
 
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Danoh

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Actually, the Mystery Paul ALONE preached is mentioned by him some seventeen times directly, with some three dozen or so more indirect mentions by him ALONE - in Romans thru Philemon.

This Mystery was "hid IN GOD" not merely from Israel, but also, from those principalities and powers in those fallen heavenly places, that God's Mystery creature - that "Church" which is THE LORD'S BODY" will one day rule from over all creation as "the fullness of Him that filleth all" reign "in all" principalities powers, thrones, dominions, in said "HEAVENLY places."

In contrast to God's PROPHESIED plan for this EARTH, through Israel as Christ's SERVANT as "a kingdom of priests," over the Nations, the Mystery that Paul ALONE preached concerns "a NEW creature" destined to reign one day FROM, as well as OVER the HEAVENLIES with Christ, NOT as His servants, but as His CO-HEIR "over all things" [thrones, dominions, principalities] "for by Him were all things" [thrones, dominions, principalities] "created."

One becomes a member of this NEW creature when one trusts its gospel, first made known through a NEW Apostle.

Once one is a member of this NEW creature - THE VERY BODY OF CHRIST HIMSELF - one is said to be a "fellow citizen with the saints" of Israel's program in that BOTH - the Israel of God [Messianic Israel] and the Body of Christ are of "the same household of God."

Picture TWO corporate entities in ONE building - Israel over the nations on one floor and the Body on another floor. Both are the people of God.

Problem is OUR mis-handling of the mail. We take for granted that mail meant for Israel concerns the Body, because it was posted in the same mail area, and visa-versa.

Acts Two Dispensationalism began to attempt to correct this, but what it found, still mired in the confusion of Israel's/The Body's mail that Covenant/Reformed/Replacement made of things, concluded the hybrid of both that Acts Two Dispensationalism continued as, allowed that to become one more tradition full of holes as yet unresolved by either Replacement or Acts Two.

Again, there are TWO entities in the houshold of God. One destined to reign over the nations of this EARTH, another destined to reign over the HEAVENLIES.

Per Romans - Philemon - the key to understanding all in all the rest of Scripture...
 
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2 cor 3:13 And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished: 14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ 15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart. 16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.
 
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Danoh

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Originally posted by BIG D "Because Israel, as a nation, did not repent of the murder of Jesus, God interrupted the Tribulation, and all the OT promises to Israel, raised up Saul/Paul to usher in this present dispensation of Grace."

Interesting wording in the "Plan B" accusation it can set off in some, given the "problem" it can appear to create.

On the one hand, God's offer at THAT time, together with the beginning of ISRAEL'S Tribulation, were legitimate. On the other, per The Mystery, He had both foreknown Israel's continued rebellion and had planned to TEMPORARILY hold off His PROPHESIED Wrath, that He might unveil The Mystery of His Son's One New Man: that "Church" which is His Son's VERY BODY.

Its easy to see why some would conclude that Dispensationalism is talking about a "Plan B."

For ONLY the Mid-Acts Perspective is able to answer such a half-way informed conclusion.

Not a Plan B. Rather, that other aspect of His TWO-FOLD Purpose.

"In the beginning, God created the HEAVEN [fold one] AND the EARTH" [fold two].

The details of Fold One "hid IN GOD... FROM THE BEGINNING OF THE WORLD" Eph. 3:9, this truth "which is after GODLINESS. In hope of ETERNAL life, which GOD, that CANNOT lie, promised BEFORE THE WORLD BEGAN, BUT hath IN DUE TIMES [Dispensational] manifested His word through preaching WHICH IS COMMITTED UNTO ME, the Apostle Paul, Titus 1:1-3, "Even THE MYSTERY which HATH BEEN HID FROM AGES [Dispensations] and FROM GENERATIONS - BUT NOW - is made manifest unto His saints: To whom.GOD would make known what is the riches of the glory OF THIS MYSTERY AMONG THE GENTILES; [said glory of THIS MYSTERY of] which is Christ IN YOU, the hope of glory," Col. 1:26, 27.

Nope - no "Plan B" there - only that ONCE KEPT HID IN GOD BY GOD "wisdom OF GOD IN A MYSTERY, even the HIDDEN wisdom, which GOD ORDAINED BEFORE THE WORLD [was] unto OUR glory," 1 Cor. 2:7.

And no, this MYSTERY is NOT the Cross, nor its sufferings, as both were PROPHESIED, Isaiah 53.

Rather, as its Apostle: Paul, laments to the Corinthians, he finds himself unable to share its Ephesians Epistle details with them for THIS MYSTERY is for "them that are perfect."

As Paul would later write, this MYSTERY'S details concerns God's New Creature in His Son - a creature destinated by Him to one day reign WITH Him as a JOINT HEIR from those SPIRITUAL HIGH PLACES He will one day clear out of their present "spiritual wickedness" Eph. 1; 3; 6; Col. 1, etc.
 
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Dispy

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The following is from an Article by Tracy Plessinger titled: "The Bible's Most Misunderstood Verse" by Tracy Plessinger.
>SNIP<

God' Eternal Unchanging Plan

Scripture makes very clear that God has only ever had one plan. That plan has been in effect since before the world began and will be fulfilled only after time is no more, in the dispensation of the fulness of time.

Paul, a servand of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness; In hope of eternal life, which God, that connot lie, promised before the world began; Titus 1:1,2

Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath pruposed in himself: That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him: Ephesians 1:9,10.


The heart of this plan is seen in the passage from Ephesians quoted absove. God's eternal purpose and plan is to glorify His son, Jesus Christ, to "gather together in one all things in Christ". This eternal purpose can also be seen in Paul's letter to the church at Philippi.

Wherefore God also had highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of thing in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth: And that every tongue shall confess that Jesus Chris is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. Philippians 2:9-11.

Clearly, God's eternal purpose is to have all creatures glorify the Son, Jesus Christ, Which in turns brings honor to the Father. It is also clear from two of the passages quoted above that this one eternal purpose of God is to be carried out in two different locations, on earth and in heaven.

There is however, an impediament to God's plan. There is one who desires to usurp the rightful position of Christ as the one that is glorified by heaven and earth. The being who desires to have the honor and glory that belong to Christ is Satan. In the book of Isaiah, we read of his selfish desire.

For thou [Lucifer] hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. Isaiah 14:13,14.

It is very significant that Satan uses a specific title of God when he sets out on this course of rebellion. He refers to God as, "the most high". That title is a title that relates specifically to God's ownership of heaven and earth. This can be seen as we look at the first time that that title is used in Scripture.

And he blessed him, and said, Blessed be Abram of the most high God, possessor of heaven and earth:...And Abram said to the king of Sodom, I have lift up mine hand unto the Lord, the most high God, the possessor of heaven and earth, Genesis 14:19,22.

What we are read in scripture, from Genesis to Revelation, is an account of Satan's attempt to become the possessor of heaven and earth, to replace Jesus Christ as the ruler of the universe. We also learn of God's counterattack and that God's plan, in the end, will overcome Satan's plan. In the end, Jesus Christ will alone be glorified in heaven and earth.

Dispensational Bible study simply acknowledges the fact that Satan has attacked God's authority on two fronts, the heaven and the earth, and that God will repel that attack and be victorious on those same two fronts. The first person to rightly divide the Word of Truth was not some modern-day dispensationalist. It was God.

In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. Genesis 1:1

God presents His creative act as an act that produced a divided universe, a universe that consists of two parts, the heaven, and the earth. In order to fully understand God's plan we must understand how that plan will be carried out in both of these areas.

God Plan on the earth

As we continue in the first chapter of the book of Genesis, we immediately see where God's plan is focused initially.

And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon theface of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon theface of the waters. Genesis 1:2

And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the foul of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. Genesis 1:28

And God said, Let there be lingths in the firmanent of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years: And let them be for light in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so. Genesis 1:14,15


It is clear that the creation described in Genesis 1 is focused exclusively on the earth. It is the earth that is said to be "without form, and void". It is the earth that man is told to "replenish" and "subdue", Even the light that God created in heaven were for the purpose of giving light "upon the earth."

After the flood, God gave similar instructions to Noah and his sons.

And God blessed Noah and his sons, and said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth. Genesis 9:1

With the setting aside of Abram to begin the formation of the nation Israel we see that the focus was still on the earth.

The wilderness and the solitary place shall be glad for them: and the desert shall rejoice, and blossom as the rose. Isaiah 35:1

Arise, shine; for thy light is come, and the glory of the LORD is risen upon thee, For, behold, the darkness shall cover the earth, and gross darkness the people: but the LORD shall arise upon thee, and his glory shall be seen upon thee. and the Gentiles shall come to thy light, and kings ot the brightness of thy shining. Isaiah 60:1-3

Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold broken to peices together and became like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them: and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth....And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever. Daniel 2:35-44


Notice that Isaiah points to the wonderful utopian conditions on the renewed earth and how the Gentile nations will flow into that blessing. Daniel emphasizes the fact that the [/b]"God of heaven"[/b] will establish a kingdom that fill "the whole earth". These passages are typical of the message that the prophets brought to the nation Israel. They were continuing God's focus on reestablishing His aughority on the earthly part of His creation.

Christ was presented to Israel as the rightful heir to the earthly throne of David.

And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favor with God. And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: and he shall reigh over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end. Luke 1:30-33

Christ taught His disciples to pray for the kingdom to come to the earth.

Afther this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven. Matthew 6:9,10

The apostles tied their message and its returning, triumphant Messiah to the fulfillment of the prophetic Scriptures.

Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; And he shall send Jesus Christ which before was preached unot you: Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the Mouth of all the holy prophets since the world began. Acts 3:19-21.

All of the facts above show us that during the time frame covered from Genesis 1:2 to Acts 9, focus of God's message was on the earth.

God's Plan in the Heaven

In the 9th chapter of Acts we see a significant change begin to take place as Jesus Christ speaks from heaven to a man who would become the Apostle of the Gentiles.

And as he [Saul] journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about a light from heaven: And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? And he said, Who art thou Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick agains the pricks. Acts 9:3-5

Clearly, Paul had a calling that was heavenly in nature. The setting aside of Paul and the formation of the Body of Christ marks a change in God's focus from the earth to heaven. God's basic plan to glorify Christ has not changed at all. His purpose is still the same one that He conceived before the foundation of the world. With the ministry of Paul, He is now simply revealing the heavenly aspect of that plan. In the book of Ephesians, Paul makes quite clear that the focus of the Body of Christ is heavenly.

The Body of Christ is blessed in heavenly places.

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ; who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: Ephesians 1:3

The Body of Christ is seated in heavenly places.

And hath raised us up together, and made us sip together in heavenly place in Christ Jesus; Ephesians 2:6

The Body of Christ is ministering to beings in heavenly places.
To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God, Ephesians 3:10

The Body of Christ has at it head a Christ who has ascended above and therefore rules over heavenly places.

He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.) Ephesians 4:10

The Body of Chris is fighting a war with beings in heavenly places.

For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the drkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. Ephesians 6:12

Paul is also careful to make sure that we understand that our eternal destiny is in the heavenlies, not on the earth.
For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saour, the Lord Jesus Christ; Whom shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unot himself. Philippians 3:20,21

For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the vocie of the archangel, and with the trump of God; and the dead in Christ shall rise first; Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: an so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words. I Thessalonians 4:16-18


Notice that our comfort is not found in the return of Christ to establish an earthly kingdom, as it was for Israel. Our comfort is found in Christ catching us off this earth to reign with Him for all eternity in the heavenlies. Our eternal destiny and conversation is in heaven and not on the earth.

We should note one other important truth about all of this information about God purpose being fulfilled in heaven. It was all kept secret in the mind and heart of God until it was revealed to and through the Apostle Paul.

Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began, But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made know to all nations for the obedience of faith: Romans:25,26

Notice that Paul says that the information he is preaching was "kept secret since the world began". This is a marked contrast to Peter's preachings things "which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began." (See Acts 3:21, quoted above) God's plans concerning the heavens were kept secret until revealed to and through the Apostle Paul.

These facts show us that the truth of God's plan being fulfilled in heaven, the truth under which we operate today, is found exclusively in the writings of the Apostle Paul to the Chruch, the Body of Christ. We must go to those writings to understand how God will fulfill His purpose in heaven, and how we should live based on our place in that heavenly plan.

The fulfillment of God's Plan.

We have already seen that in the book of Ephesians God reveals the fulfillment of His lplan in eternity future, both on the earth and in heaven, as all things are gathered \"together in one...in Christ". As God closes out His revelation to man we see that He has in fact brought everthing full circle.

And I say a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. Revelation 21:1

God's one eternal plan will be fulfilled, both in heaven and on earth. Jesus Christ will be honored and glorified in all the universe.

The only way that we can truly understand the entirety of god's plan is to rightly divide the Word of Truth and realize that He is working to carry out this plan in two areas, the heaven and the earth.

Live Well, Laugh Much and Love The Lord!
 
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God's Plan in the Heaven

In the 9th chapter of Acts we see a significant change begin to take place as Jesus Christ speaks from heaven to a man who would become the Apostle of the Gentiles.

And as he [Saul] journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about a light from heaven: And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? And he said, Who art thou Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick agains the pricks. Acts 9:3-5

Clearly, Paul had a calling that was heavenly in nature. The setting aside of Paul and the formation of the Body of Christ marks a change in God's focus from the earth to heaven. God's basic plan to glorify Christ has not changed at all. His purpose is still the same one that He conceived before the foundation of the world. With the ministry of Paul, He is now simply revealing the heavenly aspect of that plan. In the book of Ephesians, Paul makes quite clear that the focus of the Body of Christ is heavenly.

The Body of Christ is blessed in heavenly places.

question Dispy is that
when the church is built upon apostles and prophets in eph 2:20 ... who do you call as an fellow apostles writings?
 
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