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In my opinion, most Protestants, Pentecostals, and Charismatics wouldn't dream in a million years to even consider converting to Catholicism, so I cannot see any possibility of any form of unity between Catholics and Protestants. They are as totally different as chalk and cheese.
Just as well we hold no such attitude.I have a feeling that God detests, abhors, this attitude of superiority :-(.
I have a question:
How can Catholics and Protestants have true unity while the Catholic church believes it is the only true church and that to be fully accepted as a true Christian a Protestant must convert to Catholicism, accept the Pope as their spiritual leader, and subscribe to Catholic doctrine and theology?
This issue came up on the Catholic forum, and I felt quite limited in discussing this because that forum is protected for Catholic believers. This is why I am bringing up the question in a more appropriate forum where those who are concerned about this can have a free discussion about the issues.
In my opinion, most Protestants, Pentecostals, and Charismatics wouldn't dream in a million years to even consider converting to Catholicism, so I cannot see any possibility of any form of unity between Catholics and Protestants. They are as totally different as chalk and cheese.
If you put Catholics as the extreme on one end and historic protestants as the extreme on the other, some groups are closer to the Catholics than they are the Protestants. All "free will" groups lean towards Catholicism more so than historic Protestantism. I think of Luther's book Bondage of the Will. And the Augustinianism of the Reformers who held his same views.As a knowledgeable, non-Catholic, non-protestant familiar with the subject matter, I strongly recommend you begin by finding out for yourself what the Catholic Church is, rather than what people erroneously assume it to be it might help. It would be a good place to start anyway.
It seems a bit of a silly argument especially when the logic of it would call all non-catholics not Christians. Implicitly the rules of CF would even disagree with this. So Catholics, in order to participate in forums like this, must ignore where this logic points and make up other definitions. Sort of like the charismatic version of are you a "Spirit-filled" Christian.I have a question:
How can Catholics and Protestants have true unity while the Catholic church believes it is the only true church and that to be fully accepted as a true Christian a Protestant must convert to Catholicism, accept the Pope as their spiritual leader, and subscribe to Catholic doctrine and theology?
This issue came up on the Catholic forum, and I felt quite limited in discussing this because that forum is protected for Catholic believers. This is why I am bringing up the question in a more appropriate forum where those who are concerned about this can have a free discussion about the issues.
In my opinion, most Protestants, Pentecostals, and Charismatics wouldn't dream in a million years to even consider converting to Catholicism, so I cannot see any possibility of any form of unity between Catholics and Protestants. They are as totally different as chalk and cheese.
I did a paper in Catholic theology as part of my M.Div., so I have a good appreciation of it. I know one thing for sure - that it believes it is the only true church that has descended from the first Apostles and that every other church is a breakaway from it.
I can go into any other church and fully participate in the Lord's supper, or the Eucharist, but not in a Catholic church. I watched the priest's video on the Catholic forum, and he was quite clear that it has been from right from the start a person had to be fully initiated into the church before he or she can participate in the Eucharist. Because the Catholic church believes that it is the true church right from that time, anyone outside of it has to be initiated into it before they can be accepted as being truly qualified to participate in what is at the centre of the Christian church.
Therefore it is not difficult to see that unless one converts to Catholicism and be fully initiated into it through the set ritual of initiation (as fully described to me by my wife who was educated Catholic) then I am not accepted as a true Christian able to participate in the Catholic Eucharist.
Therefore, I don't see any basis for true unity between Protestants and Catholics because they have fundamental differences in their doctrines and the way they severally worship God.
Unity will only happen when we stop looking at what needs to be changed externally, but instead spend our time focusing on what needs to be changed internally.
We may recite the Hail Mary prayer, pray the rosary, attend church every week, sing in the music group, preach the gospel, witness signs and wonders and even experience great blessing, but if we ourselves do not bear fruit, then like withered branches we risk being cut down and thrown into the fire. Not everyone who says Lord Lord will be entering the kingdom. It is a very sobering warning for us all - myself included.
If we do not have charity, love, peace, forbearance, faithfulness, gentleness and self control, then instead of pointing the finger at others, perhaps we should spending more time on our knees in repentance and pleading to Christ for his mercy.
Whether we are Catholic, Orthodox or Protestant, whether we subscribe to sola scriptura or embrace tradition, it is only when we allow ourselves to be totally consumed with the love of Christ and show the fruits of the Spirit, that we will be able to effectively reach out to others and bring them into the kingdom.
Answer: they cannot. The most that could be achieved would be mutual respect at a certain level and, I suppose, join efforts on some projects.I have a question:
How can Catholics and Protestants have true unity while the Catholic church believes it is the only true church and that to be fully accepted as a true Christian a Protestant must convert to Catholicism, accept the Pope as their spiritual leader, and subscribe to Catholic doctrine and theology?
Unfortunate, isn't it? Some of the topics there and the posters over there are quite interesting and not particularly sharp-edged...but still we are flatly prohibited from participating and are even constantly warned that it is a "Catholics only" forum.This issue came up on the Catholic forum, and I felt quite limited in discussing this because that forum is protected for Catholic believers.
To set the record straight, and I hope you know this from previous discussions in Traditional Theology, we do not believe that “those outside of their particular faith are detestable, outcast dogs who are just feeding on garbage; and that would include people of about every other Protestant, Pentecostal, and Charismatic church!”It is a real shame that the position of the Orthodox church is that those outside of their particular faith are detestable, outcast dogs who are just feeding on garbage; and that would include people of about every other Protestant, Pentecostal, and Charismatic church!
I found Jesus through the Catholic church when I was in second grade. I was in the pew waiting for my turn to enter the confessional for the first time. I was in second grade. I was so frightened. I reached out to Jesus to help me and He did. He made me secure in the knowledge that my sins were already forgiven. When I finally entered the confessional, it was a meaningless exercise as I knew the power to forgive was not on the other side of the sliding door.I have a question:
How can Catholics and Protestants have true unity while the Catholic church believes it is the only true church and that to be fully accepted as a true Christian a Protestant must convert to Catholicism, accept the Pope as their spiritual leader, and subscribe to Catholic doctrine and theology?
This issue came up on the Catholic forum, and I felt quite limited in discussing this because that forum is protected for Catholic believers. This is why I am bringing up the question in a more appropriate forum where those who are concerned about this can have a free discussion about the issues.
In my opinion, most Protestants, Pentecostals, and Charismatics wouldn't dream in a million years to even consider converting to Catholicism, so I cannot see any possibility of any form of unity between Catholics and Protestants. They are as totally different as chalk and cheese.
see this is the exclusive elitist stuff that makes unity difficult. Orthodox think they own communion. Protestants have been baptized into the church and are saved by grace through faith. Those verses don’t apply to Protestants, they refer to unbelievers or believers in sin. Imagine the hubris to think that only your church denomination could administer the Lord’s supper. Wow
I agree, and I would add that there is no Apostolic succession, because the last Apostle died without a successor. The doctrine of Apostolic succession is a Catholic one in which Peter was supposed to be the first Pope and his successors carried on the Apostolic role. Of course, there is no historical evidence that Peter was ever a bishop of Rome. Anyway, during his time, the bishop of Rome did not have the pre-eminence over the other regional bishops. That came well after Peter was martyred.
To set the record straight, and I hope you know this from previous discussions in Traditional Theology, we do not believe that “those outside of their particular faith are detestable, outcast dogs who are just feeding on garbage; and that would include people of about every other Protestant, Pentecostal, and Charismatic church!”
True faithful believers are those who confess and believe in Jesus Christ as their saviour and are baptised in the name of the Father, son and holy Spirit. They can find unity in the love of their saviour and in the breaking of the bread and drinking of the wine in remembrance of (having communion with) Him. Where there are two or three who confess His name as Lord they can share the bread and cup together regardless what Church they are from.
All praise to our Lord for unity.
Baloney, sir!
You have no idea what the Eucharist is. You have no understanding that it is a sign and symbol of unity in dogma and doctrine, of unity in belief and practice. To partake of a Lord's Supper in a church with which you disagree is to set forth a visible lie - i.e., that you are in union with them (communion - common union) when you are actually not.
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